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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 25, 2022 06:01 PM |
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Ben80 said:
@AlexSpl
...that you really think the United States is a highly moral country. ..
Do you know ANY country which fits this description?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 06:03 PM |
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Russia protects only mass killers like Milosevic Kadyrov Lukashenka Assad and a lot minor murders. Russia is ruled by mass murders. And in Ukraine we see mass murders. Murders murders murders. It must be stoped and will be stopped. Its end of the blody empire.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 06:03 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 18:04, 25 Mar 2022.
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Quote:
In the case of Ukraine, the situation is completely different - this is a forced protection from Russia. All this has already been discussed here, and I see no reason to repeat the same thing to you. You are blind and deaf, and in a way "crazy" (that is, terribly biased).
I'm wise enough to not impose my point of view. I'm even not from a so called "influencers tribe", and am not represent anything but my human opinion. And I'm not one of those who will be proving their case with foam at their mouth. I respect Russians, the real Russians, the thinking Russians. Now someone wants to destroy this respect and, if you have a brain, you should understand that they sow the seed of hatred to the hearts of people who recently played Heroes and had no idea that they - it turns out - are sworn enemies. I am not saying that Russia should not continue its unique path. For example, I respect the path of China. Actually, they are very wise nation. If you don't think so, look at their economics. But I'm sure Russia should not fight against the independant countries. The cases of Donetsk and Lugansk are not those tens thousands of men, women and chilren should lay in graves. Even if Russia is right, this price is too heavy, and only the devil himself can justify it. Not the the "war game" itself, but the lives of people which were neglected by thoughtless shelling. Mind, now no one speaks about human casualties, this war went out of any control. People are just trying to survive. I saw the video where Russian forces, just because they were in fear of enemy, eliminated a civilian vehicle with two elder people, man and women. And I don't know if there were any grandchildren at the back seats. Well, I understrand that Russian forces thought that every Ukrainian posses a Javelin, but this is not the case. They really destroyed Citroen with civilians from BMP, three strikes to make sure no one survives.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 06:41 PM |
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This price is on the conscience of the West and followers of Bandera.
I don't know if you're foaming at the mouth or not, but at least you keep answering me. And in spreading the seeds of hatred you are participating here. True, I see very little logic in your posts -
I would never have thought that the author of these posts has a technical education.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 07:02 PM |
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Quote:
I don't know if you're foaming at the mouth or not, but at least you keep answering me. And in spreading the seeds of hatred you are participating here. True, I see very little logic in your posts -
I would never have thought that the author of these posts has a technical education.
It's a simple question - where are you getting your info from? List all of your sources. Well, list them for yourself. It's your right to saty blind. I'm sure that you are a disciple of reckless propaganda. I heard that Russia tries to hide the truth by blocking so called "fake information" resources. I think that a nation which has the truth on its side should stay calm and should not fear disinformation, right? But, can you visit the site of the Ministery of Defence of Ukraine? Which sources do you read? I read Russian sources, and what I see that they strugling to capture minds of Russian people with fictitious problems.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 07:08 PM |
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We are really calm. And the discussion with you does not make much sense - it is purely emotional. And don't forget that the West does spend a lot of money on disinformation and fakes. USA is an empire of lies.
I have no desire to exchange links to sources of information with you. Hope for understanding.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 07:36 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 19:44, 25 Mar 2022.
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Ben, we weren't born yesterday. Do you really think that the West lies and only Russia tells the truth? This is the dirtiest infowar in the whole history. Russia cannot win. 1) They loose human lives of soldiers. This implements maternal sufferings, if we are allowed to speak about what we cannot comprehend arid. 2) This is unprovoked war. The only provocation was in the head of those whose gave the order to cross the border of Ukraine, lying to the whole world, that they are just training. Well, I knew that the war was imminent. But to the last point I hoped that Russians aren't kamikazes. Ben, Russians can take Ukraine, I don't doubt it, but can you see what will happen then? Do Russia really need a country who hates Russians? Maybe I don't understand and Ukrainians fight against Russia because Ukrainian Nazis torture them to fight. But my logic tells me that they fight for their Motherland, for their culture and their right to be independent, to be free. Russia thinks that every Ukrainian is a nationalist. Well, I admit that there were issues before. But no one thinks that those moods began to grow after the annexation of the Crimea. Russia took Ukrainian territory, it's a fact. If you say that the Crimea was always Russian, then it won't be the truth. So, can Russia live happily without the Crimea? I think it can. Remember 2009 when we were friends with the US and our citizens received decent salaries? Those were times of great hopes for future. And all that follows is just an attempt to bring to life the idea of one person, the price is poverty. Well, I don't think that people in North Korea suffer. Maybe they live their lives to the fullest and they make jokes about us capitalists who are mad with fat 
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 07:44 PM |
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Let's wait and see. I also do not know what will happen in the world next. As for the Motherland, culture and other things, one could talk, but I would prefer not to voice my true opinion here (it is rather cynical). I can only say that once no one asked me when I was deprived of my homeland (USSR).
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 07:47 PM |
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imswear
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2022 07:59 PM |
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Edited by imswear at 20:03, 25 Mar 2022.
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Normally, I don't want to get involved in a fight, even if it's just verbal.
When you have some different ideas, it's easy to turn into a confrontation instead of discussing it calmly. You can't even be neutral, and I'm not a neutral who doesn't think it matters.
I have been paying attention to various international disputes all the year round. I have seen a variety of viewpoints. I have doubts about some points:
"Culture of the powerhouse", "the strong eat the weak", "law of the jungle".
I know that many people think from the perspective of "realism" that the common ideal of mankind cannot be realized, and that "the law of the jungle" is the reality and basic law of human society.
This logic is very confusing.
But I don't think it holds true. The reason is not that I am an idealist, but on the contrary, my judgment is based on "realism".
Throughout the thousands of years of human history, including today. The reality that can be seen is that human beings are not "the law of the jungle" creatures.
Let's just look at reality: Assuming that the rules of human society are really "the law of the jungle", then you should be robbing, or being robbed at this time. The people you see on the street should be armed and armed. If you are weak, you can still go to kindergarten and rob. And there must be giants 2.4 meters tall who are killing the Quartet.
You should kill your neighbor old man, or your neighbor is raping your relatives.
Officials and rich people should hide in bunkers, remotely control troops and tanks, loot everything on the street, and ask you to hand over the fruits of your labor.
In fact, the reality we see is not so. Even in the most chaotic regions, cooperation can be seen more than confrontation. Because humans have never been animals of the law of the jungle.
Why?
Because humans are social animals, it is not the norm for all herd animals to kill one another. Although by chance. Such as lions, monkeys and so on. There is also more cooperation between animals in nature than confrontation. This is written into our genes. is an important part of our humanity.
Second, humans are producers. Therefore, even if it is competition between people, it is not a [zero-sum game].
The weak and the strong in nature are a zero-sum game. The reason is that natural resources are limited. If someone eats more, others eat less.
Human beings are competing for "production and creation", with more and more resources and a bigger and bigger cake.
I make a shoe and you make a car, which is not a conflict in itself, but mutually beneficial. Auto workers don't have to kill shoe workers. Killing your neighbors will not increase your wealth, it will only decrease material production. The items you can enjoy also drop with it.
So we don't need to kill each other. And the real society of human beings, most of the time, is indeed running like this. This is the law of "realism" in human society.
In addition, is there really an absolute powerhouse in this world?
If you are fit, you can torture and kill children.
But I can also kill you by means of sneak attack, ambush, poisoning, etc.
If you are rich, I can also secretly throw stones at your back.
You might hire 1000 bodyguards. But if follow the law of the weak and the strong, your bodyguards may also shoot you and plunder your property, wife and daughter.
No one is safe, no one is truly strong.
Why do some people believe in the powerhouse? Believe in force?
If this is the world you want, the current United States has the ability to destroy 100 small countries. Why doesn't it do this? Because it doesn't help him.
Even if it's what they call "enemies" like Russia. if destroyed. Then the whole world will suffer together:
1. Resettlement of refugees. Hundreds of millions of people in Russia have become refugees, who can digest it?
2. The Russians may become a nation of "revangelists". It may cause damage to you at any time, and it is impossible to prevent it.
3. The global economic chain is broken, the products produced by Russians are missing, the global industry needs to be readjusted, and the society is shaken.
So even if you destroy the "enemy", you will also damage yourself.
We can also see that modern warfare is also different from the past.
We often see superpowers, dragged into the quagmire of war, and defeated, even if their opponents are weak.
And some small countries have also become "cemeteries of empires".
the reason is:
1. Some basic human rights of the people are required to be observed. such as humanitarianism. Such as not killing civilians. This makes war more careful, rather than reckless.
This will, although weak, becomes stronger when it becomes a consensus.
Otherwise, it will be a matter of minutes for a strong country to crush a small country.
I know some people will say, who and so fouled and killed civilians. But even so, they dare not carry out indiscriminate bombing, or drop nuclear bombs.
This shows that the ground rules are still useful, and they still have scruples.
This is where it differs from ancient times.
2. Modern high-tech weapons and mutual aid mechanisms. It can make a small country difficult to chew.
Some people mention benefits, but benefits are not so simple to calculate. It contains so many things.
According to the Nash equilibrium theory, seemingly rational human beings often fall into a state of equilibrium in which the interests of both parties are minimized due to confrontation. The annexation of a country or a cold war may yield short-term benefits, but in the long run and broadly speaking, the benefits are minimal.
There is no doubt that if most of your time, energy, and manpower are spent on making bullets and missiles, then the economic level cannot be good, and the people's quality of life cannot be high.
This is a move that adds weight to each other and cannot be withdrawn unilaterally. It will even overweight to the point of dragging itself down. There is no real winner.
Only cooperation can maximize the benefits.
Peace, communication, collaboration, ethics, etc., they are not fictional terms created by idealists. It is based on self-interest considerations, and it is also tacitly accepted by everyone.
While they are often broken, that is not the norm of life.
national borders on earth,
But it is the shadow cast by the clouds in the sky.
A hundred years later, we are all dust.
We don't enjoy the short life, but here we hate each other and fight each other forever.
Brothers and sisters, I don't know where you are from, what you believe in, what skin color you are, what your height and weight are, what your life circumstances are.
I don't know if you have ever felt helpless, confused, confused, or lost, or if you felt aggrieved, angry, or felt unfair. Whether the fate is ill-fated, life is unsatisfactory. Have you ever expected someone to help you in the dark, and whether someone has ever helped you. Have you collaborated with others.
I don't know if "peace" is a positive or a negative word in your culture.
I guess people in all countries, in all regions, when you coined the word, you thought it was "good". And "war" is clearly not.
Good and evil are in our vocabulary, defined by us humans. The reason why we regard certain words as positive or negative words. It already represents our attitude.
Personally, in my life, I can clearly feel the various obstacles, damage, and blows brought about by confrontation, non-cooperation, inability to communicate, isolation, and even hatred.
As an ordinary person, I believe you understand what I want.
There are many "reasons" and "logics" in the world, but I have to say that most of them are untenable, strictly speaking. Instead of believing those truths, look at your life and look at everything around you. How did they get better? Why did it go bad? What are your personal expectations?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 08:08 PM |
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@imswear,
Thank you for not blaming anyone.
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purerogue
Known Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 08:17 PM |
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The U.S. can destroy the world, but it doesn't, but doens't mean it isn't constantly engaged in clandestine activity everywhere.
There are robbers, just 1/100 in people is enough for everybody should know what a robber is.
The elephant is the most peaceful animal.. until humans wanted ivory.
old men don't fight
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 08:25 PM |
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Well, what can I say? First, think of Elon Musk. Has he done enough with his *own* hands to have such treasures in dollars? I don't think it's even legal to have this amount of dollars. You can't collect that many mushrooms in a lifetime without being a ninja. But I respect Ilon Musk, he's like a hero from my childhood, the one who can dictate his own terms to those who dictate their own and don't really like when someone is clever than they are. People are just playing games. All kings liked this games of subordination. Don't know if this is fun. Cannot comprehend lives of rules of this world. Think they are captives of their riches, and don't care about Titan.
Please stop this madness. What do your souls need, dear friends with unlimited power? I'm the 117th if this means something.
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imswear
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2022 08:25 PM |
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How does the Matthew effect happen?
When a society believes in a "truth", then the "truth" becomes like that.
For example, when most people think "muscle people" are more likely to succeed. Then social resources and trust will be more concentrated on the "muscle person", and more people will be willing to cooperate with him. It does make it easier for him to succeed.
And therefore, make people more believe that "muscle people are more likely to succeed" is the truth.
When everyone believes that wars can be resolved, then there will indeed be more wars. The proponents of this theory are even more convinced that they are right.
Conversely, if everyone believed that peace was the truth, then war would hardly happen.
What people believe will affect the direction of the society.
But the truth he believed in was probably just an illusion blessed by the Matthew effect.
This is the story of Macbeth:
On the way back home, the general met 3 witches.
They respectively predicted that he would become a jazz in the future and eventually become a king.
He believed it, so every time he encountered a crossroads of decision-making, he made a choice according to this prophecy. So in the end he did become king too. In the end, the price was crying while holding her daughter's body.
What if he doesn't believe it? It might be another life.
Human society even more so. The unanimous direction led to a certain result.
And people argue in circles,
More believe that this is "truth".
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imswear
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2022 08:37 PM |
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Edited by imswear at 20:38, 25 Mar 2022.
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Ben80 said:
@imswear,
Thank you for not blaming anyone.
As an ordinary person, all I feel is a deep sense of powerlessness.
I don't even have full control over my own life.
also don't have the ability to fight others.
Maybe sometimes I will have some different ideas, but please believe that I am not creating a fight.
Because I selfishly don't want these things to affect my personal life.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 08:48 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
I'm the 117th if this means something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk
Participated in the bombing of Yugoslavia.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 09:01 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 21:10, 25 Mar 2022.
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Quote:
Because I selfishly don't want these things to affect my personal life.
This is the greatest weakness of an individual. All we have is our own life. We don't know anything but our life. It's unique for every person in this world. And all oppresions come from the idea of exploiting this natural weakness. If you delve into history, you'll find many torturing mechanisms created to break the will of the people. Man is pathethic. The showcase is Hitler's war. People killed another people to not being killed themselves. If I were the consiousness of humanity, my color would be red from blood. Still we think our souls are spotless, every new generation thinks so. We are wiser than our fathers, we can do this and that. And if you are a successful one, in your 90's you will understand the ultimate truth of this live - everything should have its end. I think that this is a biochemical process, the very nature alters our imagination and will. And we transform from romantic youths watching the moon on a frosty night to those who send bullets to people which we've never met in reality. I hate the fact that a person is a piece of plasticine. Do we really defend our own beliefs? Or we just a sum of what we read, watch and hear?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 09:33 PM |
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 10:19 PM |
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In general, it must be admitted that 90% of people are very easily amenable to propaganda - propaganda of any side. And since the West is much stronger in the information war, the preponderance of opinion is obvious. In addition, the West has the so-called soft power.
In principle, the consumer society itself is already the soft power of the West (and we all grew up in the consumer society in one way or another).
The remaining 10%, with whom it is personally interesting for me to communicate on issues such as the one being discussed, are people with a good education who are interested in history.
I confess that I was an observer at the last elections in Russia
(I was always outraged by the fact that they were ... not entirely honest). Now, seeing the reaction of a large number of Russian youth to this situation, I begin to understand that state affairs really should not depend in any way on the position of these frivolous people.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2022 10:28 PM |
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Ben80 said:
I can only say that once no one asked me when I was deprived of my homeland (USSR).
What do you miss from those USSR times and who do you think is to blame for this deprivation?
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