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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 10:21 AM |
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On another note, Finland and Sweden will apply to join NATO.
I'm sure Russia will be ecstatic to hear that.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 12, 2022 10:33 AM |
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A very good news..
To Ben's propaganda
Daniel 11:41 says "He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon."
Don't think too much puzzle. When I don't know yet.. Only I know NATO..
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 12, 2022 10:41 AM |
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Salamandre said:
No, Russia is not a democracy in the sense France and Germany are, why should they? You think our system is the best, they don't. They elected Putin, they choose their political apparatus. Does that mean Russia is a bloody dictatorship? No, otherwise there would be millions of Russian migrants knocking at EU doors. Our global perception of Russia and China specifics political systems is all biased and ignorant of what they place first: patriotism, spirituality, rootedness in history, respect for authority, adherence to heteronormative and patriarchal ideals of family and gender.
Time will say who is right, but seeing how things evolve on both sides I don't put my money on us, that's for sure.
I had my doubts but the more you talk the more I’m starting to think that your whole stance on this war is based on an emotional familiarity with Putin, about how him and you think quite similar on such matters.
Yes, Russia is not a Nazi Germany level dictatorship but that is not saying much because Nazi Germany is one of the most extreme examples in modern history when it comes to totalitarianism and corrupt power. Russia is certainly an authoritarian state, I’m not saying this to demonize it, my country is not so different in the last decade and I know first-hand when it comes to people things are never black and white. But here’s what you masterfully ignore: In France or Germany, if someone voluntarily wants to live their life according to “patriotism, spirituality, rootedness in history, respect for authority, adherence to heteronormative and patriarchal ideals of family and gender,” there is nothing to stop them is there? It’s just that not everyone is expected or forced to live according to these values. And making this sound like “just another way of doing things” is absurd, it is the core of individual rights.
Anyway, Russia and Ukraine are not in war because of ideals about individualism or conservativism. That’s Putin’s bait to lure Europen right-wing sympathy and it seems to work.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 10:42 AM |
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Ghost said:
To Ben's propaganda
I tell the truth, and you prefer a lie. Go crazy with anger all you want, anyway, the truth is not on your side, which means you will lose.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 10:55 AM |
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Oh, so now the truth always wins, which would mean we'd live in the best of all worlds in which lies never pay, always backfire and are always uncovered.
Sure, dude, that sounds as reasonable as you telling the truth. 
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 11:30 AM |
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Salamandre said:
former rifleman of the French army goes to help Ukrainians. He comes back with something very different to say about. Use English subtitles.
Facepalm. Another Anne Bonnel, lol. The guy probably has never been to Ukraine and talks about things he saw on videos. And then you say people have the brains to see propaganda from truth. Believing something random guys talk on pro-Putin radio without any evidence doesn't show great analytical skills.
Meanwhile another video showing Russian soldiers killing civilians in the back.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 11:41 AM |
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hey ihor, how many jews are in ukraine right now? how about before the conflict kicked off? do some homework if you haven't already. i want a ukrainian to answer these two questions.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 11:58 AM |
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Or you could just google it.
You know, he isn't accountable to you or anyone else, for that matter.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 12:09 PM |
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Iosif Zisels, head of the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine:
I can think of no cases of animosity towards Jews over the past eight years or so. The thing is, I monitor antisemitism professionally; I don’t analyse it myself, but back in the Soviet times I was involved in creating a network for the analysis and monitoring of antisemitism. Now no one can pull the wool over my eyes — not the Russian government, not any other state, because I researched this personally. I can tell you one thing: there is no Nazism nor any particularly remarkable antisemitism in Ukraine. There was not a single instance of assault for three and a half years, then there were three cases — a statistical outlier. At the same time, there are dozens of assaults in Western European countries per year, hundreds of cases of vandalism. We had some eight or nine cases last year.
Hence, all the statements made by Putin or other Russian officials about antisemitism, neo-Nazism, right-wing radicalism, aren’t worth a damn, it’s all fabricated. There is a certain number of radical right-wing organisations in Ukraine; some of them are just fakes using Russian money to imitate radicalism. A letter was written over a year ago to the Security Service of Ukraine and the Ministry of Internal Affairs accusing certain right-wing radical groups of receiving money from the opposition platform "For Life", which is a pro-Russian parliament party headed by Yuriy Boyko, Vadim Rabinovich, and Viktor Medvedchuk, Putin’s kum. We know who transferred funds to those right-wing groups for their provocations, it was Ilya Kiva. Last year their provocations included picketing the Israel embassy on January 6th and displaying fake outrage over Israel not recognising the Holodomor. The 6th of January is a peculiar date, it’s Christmas Eve, so no one was there. They came in the evening, in the dark, stood outside the embassy earning their pay check and making videos with their phones, and then left. You can’t seriously think that those people are right-wing radicals. Also, they didn’t do any antisemitic propaganda, because there are quite a few Jewish members at the "For Life" platform.
Next, how can we even talk of antisemitism and Nazism in a country where the president is Jewish? His ministers are Jewish; 73% of the voters knew that Zelenskyy was a Jew and still voted for him in the run-off elections. I have always been skeptical about him and I am still, but people liked him for some reason; I don’t like him, but that’s not the point. 73% voted for a Jew in a country that Putin wants to "denazify" — it’s hard to imagine anything more absurd. But Putin’s propaganda doesn’t bat an eye at the fact that it has reached this level of absurdity.
Taken from here.
I find it amusing that people "with brains" continue believing Putin about antisemitism in Ukraine while completely ignoring what jews in Ukraine are actually saying.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 12:33 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 12:40, 12 May 2022.
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fred79 said:
hey ihor, how many jews are in ukraine right now? how about before the conflict kicked off? do some homework if you haven't already. i want a ukrainian to answer these two questions.
Modern politicians have no honor, no conscience, no nationality. The Jews bear a great responsibility for inciting Russophobia in Ukraine. When the Ukrainian oligarch Kolomoisky was asked how his Jewish origin and support for Ukrainian Nazism could be combined, he mockingly laughed and said "we are Jewish Bandera." In Israel itself, many also turn a blind eye to all this lawlessness. Naturally, Kolomoisky is not a patriot of Ukraine. For him, this country is just a fodder base.
***
In Europe now there are no serious politicians at all. All of them are dolls bought with giblets, "hired managers", former dog groomers.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 12, 2022 12:38 PM |
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Voting freedom!
Dictatorship Putler..
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 12:39 PM |
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ihor said:
Iosif Zisels, head of the Association of Jewish Organisations and Communities of Ukraine:
I can think of no cases of animosity towards Jews over the past eight years or so. The thing is, I monitor antisemitism professionally; I don’t analyse it myself, but back in the Soviet times I was involved in creating a network for the analysis and monitoring of antisemitism. Now no one can pull the wool over my eyes — not the Russian government, not any other state, because I researched this personally. I can tell you one thing: there is no Nazism nor any particularly remarkable antisemitism in Ukraine. There was not a single instance of assault for three and a half years, then there were three cases — a statistical outlier. At the same time, there are dozens of assaults in Western European countries per year, hundreds of cases of vandalism. We had some eight or nine cases last year.
Hence, all the statements made by Putin or other Russian officials about antisemitism, neo-Nazism, right-wing radicalism, aren’t worth a damn, it’s all fabricated. There is a certain number of radical right-wing organisations in Ukraine; some of them are just fakes using Russian money to imitate radicalism. A letter was written over a year ago to the Security Service of Ukraine and the Ministry of Internal Affairs accusing certain right-wing radical groups of receiving money from the opposition platform "For Life", which is a pro-Russian parliament party headed by Yuriy Boyko, Vadim Rabinovich, and Viktor Medvedchuk, Putin’s kum. We know who transferred funds to those right-wing groups for their provocations, it was Ilya Kiva. Last year their provocations included picketing the Israel embassy on January 6th and displaying fake outrage over Israel not recognising the Holodomor. The 6th of January is a peculiar date, it’s Christmas Eve, so no one was there. They came in the evening, in the dark, stood outside the embassy earning their pay check and making videos with their phones, and then left. You can’t seriously think that those people are right-wing radicals. Also, they didn’t do any antisemitic propaganda, because there are quite a few Jewish members at the "For Life" platform.
Next, how can we even talk of antisemitism and Nazism in a country where the president is Jewish? His ministers are Jewish; 73% of the voters knew that Zelenskyy was a Jew and still voted for him in the run-off elections. I have always been skeptical about him and I am still, but people liked him for some reason; I don’t like him, but that’s not the point. 73% voted for a Jew in a country that Putin wants to "denazify" — it’s hard to imagine anything more absurd. But Putin’s propaganda doesn’t bat an eye at the fact that it has reached this level of absurdity.
Taken from here.
I find it amusing that people "with brains" continue believing Putin about antisemitism in Ukraine while completely ignoring what jews in Ukraine are actually saying.
none of this answers either of my questions. also, you're trusting polls. and on top of that, it raises more questions. but first, try answering the two i asked.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 12:45 PM |
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Then read JJ's reply above.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 12:50 PM |
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ihor said:
Then read JJ's reply above.
why are you afraid of answering a question? why are you letting someone else do your talking for you?
it's just two simple questions, dude:
1. how many jews are in ukraine right now?
2. how many jews were in country before the conflict kicked off?
two questions, and pretty damn important to find out the answer to them. after you find the answer, i'll have a third one for you. i'm not going to tell you, because i want you to find out for yourself.
you SHOULD care. ukraine is YOUR country.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 12, 2022 12:51 PM |
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@Artu, so JJ and Minion keep yelling every two posts that Russia is Nazi, you seem to agree that is not, which is all what I said, and is me who is emotionally driven?
And yes, there are character traits in Trump, Putin, Orban - to name some, which I would love to see in other leaders, like the ability to stand up against lobbies nibbling our cohesion from inside. Like fighting for sovereignty and better deals corresponding to our national interests instead of worshiping "universality", while the inflation puts everyone - except them as elites - on the knees. Yeah.
artu said:
In France or Germany, if someone voluntarily wants to live their life according to “patriotism, spirituality, rootedness in history, respect for authority, adherence to heteronormative and patriarchal ideals of family and gender,” there is nothing to stop them is there?
Outside than risking your job and being called a fascist, yep, nothing stops you. Peanuts.
ihor said:
random guys talk on pro-Putin radio
And he gives me a CNN link to counter, yuck.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 12:56 PM |
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No, I gave you a video. Do you really not see a difference?
1. Random guy tells that he saw something.
2. Video showing what happened.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 12:58 PM |
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Me? I simply quoted UK Minister of Defence Ben Wallace, a conservative.
You are quoting Putin in how Ukrainians actually nazis. Pott - Kettle.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 01:00 PM |
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ihor said:
No, I gave you a video. Do you really not see a difference?
1. Random guy tells that he saw something.
2. Video showing what happened.
Video is obviously made in a green screen in some tv studio, duh. Where as a random youtuber is telling the truth 
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 12, 2022 01:16 PM |
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And that random guy is the only one, who returned from Ukraine and saw how Bucha was staged with American operators and saw bodies were moved, and then all civilian buildings were destroyed by UA army, and that Azov cutthroats are literally everywhere. Sounds trustworthy.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 12, 2022 01:18 PM |
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@Sal
I havent read the whole 62 pages but rather then drawing a direct equality to Nazism, what they are saying seems to me like Putin’s excuse of Nazism in Ukraine is BS and if we were to draw such similarities, Russia fits the description more than Ukraine does.
And nobody would call you a fascist or fire you for wanting a traditional family or believing in spirituality. Of course, if by “patriarchal ideals” what you mean is treating women in your work environment not as your equals or something like that, that can cause reaction. What are these “patriarchal ideals” anyway? What is good about patriarchy?
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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