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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 13, 2022 05:12 AM |
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No, it doesnt work like that.
Of course, both mass immigration and international conflict have a lot do with global capitalism and global capitalism operates through banks. And naturally, rich people, bankers or not, have certain amount of influence on world affairs. Despite your impression, everybody is aware of such simple facts. But it’s not just one central schism with all the power, controlling every single conflict on earth according to their masterplan, that is comic magazine level of percepting the world.
And if someone first concludes that unlike French and Germany, China and Russia value patriotism, then defines patriotism as defending country against military invasion of foreign power, and when you object “French would also do that,” replies “look at immigrant criminals.” That is not a valid comparison only because both immigration and international military conflict both have something to do with global scale capitalism. They are still very different affairs that need to be evaluated with different parameters.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 05:19 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 05:26, 13 May 2022.
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you're so close to getting it, you know that? understand, these people are all interconnected. that's the one thing you're missing. do some research, you'll find that the globalists work in tiers; but they're all interconnected. it's not one group, but a group effort of people who all have the same values (or lack thereof), because they're paid well to have them (or not have them).
the fact that they're all interconnected wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, because global commerce and planning can be interconnected, without malice.
the problem is, is that what these people DO, with their interconnectivity, is abuse their power to continue to reign over the populace, and to use and dispose of them as they see fit; but more importantly, HOW THEY'RE TOLD TO by those providing them with whatever it is they desire.
the MALICE is why the globalists are a bad thing. these people ruling over us, who are supposed to be working FOR us, are working AGAINST us, because IT IS PROFITABLE to enact the plans of those over them, who are PAYING them to do so.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 13, 2022 06:49 AM |
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They are interconnected, the same way any group of people from same social circles are interconnected. Like how all movie stars or how all mob bosses know each other. Doesnt mean they are a united front working towards the same goal all the time or there is no real rivalry between them ever.
Is the system good for “the average joe.” That is an actual debate with no shortcut answer, while some (actual left) focus on the fact that the inequality of income is greater than ever, pro-capitalist argument says, no matter how imbalanced things are, even the poorest live much better than they used to compared to a hundred years ago, thanks to capitalism. But then, is that because of capitalism or was it going to be even better with all the technological and scientific development, if the system was something other than capitalism? Then you have the question of what that system could be because socialism certainly failed. It resulted in totalitarian bureaucracy every time and hasnt improved the conditions of working-class even as much as capitalism did.
What you percieve as organized malice is how the system (capitalism) works. Money makes money, it multiplies, the more it multiplies, the more flexibility you have to manipulate the market. Let’s say you are not willing to do that, but then somebody else does, they become the bigger company and they simply buy you out. So, it’s a a case of “dont blame the player, blame the game.”
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 08:09 AM |
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@ artu: what you're stating in your first paragraph is incorrect. why? because of what i mentioned before: M.O.
if all western countries' leaders across the world act and do the same thing towards their populace, that obviously DOESN'T benefit the populace, how can you say they're all different, with different goals?
likewise, if all "western" msm across the world state the exact same words in all of their headlines, where's the difference?
where in the hell are you seeing a difference? and don't give me any bs about how russia is claiming anything different, regarding ukraine, in their media. both countries are aiming their populace at one another; that's how government/globalist propaganda works.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 13, 2022 08:10 AM |
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French are unable to unite and come together with a wise and definitive decision fixing a specific immigration. This immigration fractures their society.
It is about a people who lost track on who he is, from where he comes, how they got here and what are made of the bonds allowing its cohesion.
And what should be the requirements for one to join this identity.
So, I doubt french would stand up against any invasion, in the current state of mind, as they have no idea what are they going to defend. For decades, they have been told their identity is either fluid, or gangrened with toxic values.
Hence my parallel to immigration as existential threat. Patriotism isn't some blind fanaticism, but defend values you believe being the strongest ever. If you cant define such values, you will not put your life in risk.
Then as usual, artu extracts from the context and proceeds to annoy me with his pretentious talk. 
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 08:40 AM |
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"As usual" when fred and Salamandre are involved, things veer wildly of-topic, because they know only one issue.
@ Sal
If immigration is your issue, then not the immigrants are the problem, but the French authorities, because they fail to create and enact the laws and regulations to facilitate integration.
@ fred
You are wrong. The banks are not it. In the 70s already we had a strong vertical conglomeration of global economy. That is, every big bank would be "associated" with a big assurance company, a big oil company, a big chemical corp and so on, but the resulting conglomerates would fight against each other.
Meanwhile you should have learned that banks have become pretty unimportant compared to then. Why? Because money is cheap. That became obvious in the crisis 15 years ago, when sudenly a trillion bucks was nothing anymore. Then interest rates got negative. A few decades ago you could earn a lot of money just with money. Without risk. Now? Not anymore - you have to INVEST money directly into the world economy: shares, fonds, or various constructs that "look" safer, but are not, in reality. For some time already the defining currency is ENERGY.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 09:13 AM |
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didn't get past your first sentence, jj. just because we're not calling each other nazis, doesn't mean we're not discussing the topic. because we absolutely are. there isn't any thread covering the globalists specifically, and if there was, you and the others would have it shut down and jettisoned to the vw like you do anything else against your programming. so unless you have anything worth reading, i invite you to vacate the conversation. the last thing we need is more nazi-this/nazi-that talk. it's childish and counterproductive.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 09:46 AM |
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Galaad said:
Err, the only fault of Anne Bonnel is that she only shows one side of the coin, and the reason why she doesn't show the other is because she got banned from that side, and guess by who. The side she shows still exists. She also publicly said she isn't pro-Putin at all, she just relates what she saw (and recorded). I still haven't watched Adrien Bocquet's interview but Sud Radio is a serious media, not the biggest but still a mainstream one. Nothing to do with a "random dude on youtube". Both these people are the opposite of what you think, they precisely went there, Adrien as a military and the Anne-Laure as a war-reporter.
You are wrong. Works of Anne Bonnel have nothing to do with journalism. She lectured journalism so, for sure, she knows how important is to check facts, and then she deliberately uses video of Poroshenko which is taken out of context as an introduction to her documentary. This is called manipulation and it was clearly deliberate (I posted full video of Poroshenko earlier in this thread). I have also previously posted more detailed analysis of her documentary by fact checkers approved by Facebook and that explains why that whole documentary is one big manipulation. That is NOT war reporting.
Same as Adrien Bocquet. For example, he said that Bucha was staged and he personally saw bodies moved. Really??? And you would believe that without any facts? Like nobody else saw that and only Adrien Bocquet? There is international investigation including French forensic experts and Bocquet was the only witness? That doesn't pass common-sense logic and then in addition to other strange things he said (I mentioned some before) it immediately brings doubts in everything he said. Nothing of what he said is on his social media. Like he claimed he was in Ukraine and then there are no pictures from Ukraine at the time when he was there. More questions...
I'm 80% sure that both of them got some Russian money to spread Russian narratives like stop weapons flow to Ukraine or lift sanctions. Or maybe Adrien is just hyping to popularize his book which would be disgusting.
Quote:
Keep in mind, war propaganda comes from all sides.
Obvious. That's why you should approach it with zero trust, including Bonnel and Bocquet.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 09:48 AM |
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fred79 said:
there isn't any thread covering the globalists specifically, and if there was, you and the others would have it shut down and jettisoned to the vw like you do anything else against your programming.
So now you spam every thread with your retarded conspiracy ramblings?
That will do you no good, fred.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 13, 2022 10:31 AM |
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ihor, Adrien Bocquet didn't say he saw bodies moving in Bucha, he didn't say he was there neither. I still understand french, so let's suggest for a moment I had a brain stroke for one second, then give me the time where he claims such things.
What he says is : while he doesn't deny the dead people are a result of Russian invasion, he thinks the spectacle on the road is staged.
ihor said:
Nothing of what he said is on his social media.
Wrong. There are videos where Azov soldiers mistreat Russian handcuffed prisoners, then shot in the knee and other brutal stuff. I saw them on kaotic and theync but I'm not sure such links can be posted, up to Galaad to allow, as such sites are gruesome, brutal and such.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 13, 2022 10:33 AM |
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So Ukrainian war crimes got debunked by... An Ukrainian fact-checker, come on. 
I read that when it went out, they basically suggest all the people interviewed are paid actors, why would I believe that? There is no water backing that.
"Approved by Facebook", the same Facebook that bypassed its own rules by allowing hate messages and death threats towards Russians.
Well there is a lot of questioning about what happened in Butcha, and I'm not going to dwell into it because it's too hard to know at the moment. As in all wars, a lot of the truth will come up much later.
Maybe I understand you wrong but it seems to me you believe that Ukraine has no dirt, unlike the others, and that there is no Ukrainian propaganda at all either. War propaganda is the strongest form of propaganda there is, and this is where you live. I would say the same to a Russian, if he thinks people of Kharkiv welcomed Russian soldiers with flowers. 
Quote:
(I posted full video of Poroshenko earlier in this thread)
Mind posting it again? I missed it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 13, 2022 10:37 AM |
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@fred
I already replied to that, politicans dont wake up and think “hmm, how shall I screw the populace today” like some pulp fiction villain. In fact, social pressure from the masses is a serious factor in their decision making especially in countries with rooted democratic tradition. But as a politician, you exist and climb up the ladder in a system, when that system is capitalism, the dynamics are pretty determined about what you can and cant do. So unless you have some functional, revolutionary alternative to this, the rules of the game can be bent only to a certain degree.
@Sal
Lol, I’d better be careful using the word “pretentious” when throwing around so many idealistic assumptions.
First of all, you dont know how will the French act if faced with imminent foreign danger. There was your kind of talk since the beginning of modern society, do you think it was any different during the 1920’s Paris or during the student movements of 1968? “Oh, we have lost our values, what brings us together as a people is gone, look how degenerate the youth is, look how immoral women started to act, they have sex out of wedlock, what happened to our religious values” etc. etc…
If you have a free society, you will have individuals with variety of ideas and core values. You cant have both that and some kind of traditional society like pre-WW2 Japanese, where anybody is willing to sacrifice their lives for the emperor. It’s not a bad thing when people question the values presented to them by the state or mainstream culture and when they question them, there will always be variety.
I have nothing against controlled immigration policies with proper integration tactics but let’s not turn this into some kind of apocalyptic collapse of society tale.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted May 13, 2022 10:39 AM |
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Salamandre said:
up to Galaad to allow
Lol, no.
@Artu and Sal
It might be best to move the France/Immigration topic to the France thread.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 11:58 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 12:03, 13 May 2022.
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artu said:
@fred
I already replied to that, politicans dont wake up and think “hmm, how shall I screw the populace today” like some pulp fiction villain.
that's not what i said. i said lower echelons(in this case, politicians) were paid to do someone else's bidding. they don't give a snow about the public; but greed is their driving force. they aren't the ones calling the shots. just like the msm, they're merely doing what they're told. in their case, it is for profit. in the msm's case, they get to keep their jobs. i've seen the same thing happen in even the smallest and most insignificant of jobs. you want to stay employed? you either do what you're told, or you get in REAL good with the boss/bosses. do you see what i'm saying, here?
artu said:
In fact, social pressure from the masses is a serious factor in their decision making especially in countries with rooted democratic tradition. But as a politician, you exist and climb up the ladder in a system, when that system is capitalism, the dynamics are pretty determined about what you can and cant do. So unless you have some functional, revolutionary alternative to this, the rules of the game can be bent only to a certain degree.
where do you get that social pressure from the masses is a serious factor with these people??? i don't see how you could possibly think that. literally EVERYTHING they do points to the exact opposite. everything they do, points to a globalist agenda. ALL of the snow they do, points to the EXACT SAME AGENDA.
provide me with even ONE example of "social pressure from the masses" happening with anyone besides trump or kennedy. the only time i can remember, is when that politician stepped down in greece or wherever a couple years back due to rioting/protesting. and even then, i think the person they replaced him with was just another globalist plant.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 13, 2022 12:31 PM |
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No, it’s not that black & white, they are not sheer puppets. Although, I agree that especially in the U.S., politicians have significantly less power than finance compared to a lot of places.
Where do I get that social pressure is a factor? I get it comparing what they dont do rather than what they do. Comparing it to countries without such tradition. They act with a sense of refrain and autocontrol politicians here dont have or have significantly less. And I see how they have to convince lobbies, senators, governors, local authorities, ngo’s etc. In more authoritarian countries, you dont have to bother with such negotiations, you just order things around.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 12:59 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 13:22, 13 May 2022.
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you are uniformed, artu. but at least you're halfway there, sort of.
but frankly, i'm too tired to continue this. i've been up all night working.
if you don't figure out that the governments of the world went full-blown authoritarian over that covid bs, and that the msm was complicit, and that they KNEW what they were doing, and that they're trying to HIDE what they did to the public forever, that they knowingly destroyed lives and country economies ON PURPOSE, and to exert and NORMALIZE their absolute authority, then i can't help you.
why do you think it is, that 3rd-world countries in the middle east have been destabilized, and then "people" call for mass exodus into europe? do you think that was just a coincidence, or merely bad judgement?
take the ukraine/russia conflict, right now. can you honestly tell me, you don't see similarities in how the msm are responding to it, getting people rallied against russia and backing a country like ukraine, that wouldn't give a snow about another country if the roles were reversed; and how the msm rallied people to invade iraq/afghanistan?
you don't see any similarities there? you don't think all this bs is for a reason?
they are CONNECTED. it is their M.O. snow snow up, rally the people behind a cause, exploit it all for personal gain. where's that 40 billion coming from again? where's it going, again? how many times has the U.S. paid a foreign country with funds it cannot AFFORD, for a country that DOESN'T GIVE A snow ABOUT THE U.S.?
the think tank behind this snow, artu, all they DO is scheme. their schemes have schemes. they're so good at it, that every single action they take has MULTIPLE benefits for them.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 01:59 PM |
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@Sal
I don't know French and as JJ mentioned English subtitles sucked, so I used this video instead. It has Russian subtitles and Adrien stated like 3 times he has been to Bucha and what he saw there (see for example 1:05, 7:00-7:20, 11:20).
Other funny thing he said is that he personally saw Azov cutthroats everywhere (4:30 - 4:50), including Lviv. It's a funny thing because I live in Lviv and I have never EVER in my life saw a single Azov fighter. And now most of them are in Mariupol. Obvious lies.
Another funny thing he said how he personally saw the weapons from Europe (9:30 - 10:00) in Lviv as he happened to be right at the place of the missile strike.
Another funny thing he said that he personally heard from Azov cutthroats how they will kill jews and blacks if they had a chance.
The guy literally personally experienced all of the kinds of Russian propaganda within 2 weeks in Ukraine, while everybody else stays silent. Guys, wake up!
Feel free to HCM me the videos of the war crimes, I'm aware of one case of killing prisoners, but it wasn't even Azov, but other brigades of Ukrainian army. The guy says he has tens of videos, so where are they?
@Gallad
Is the only fault of Ukrainian fact checkers that they are Ukrainians? Or maybe you fact checked them about what they say about Anne Bonnel and have evidence they are wrong?
I'm sending the same link again which provides full video and text in English and then also the explanation why the taken out of context was a manipulation.
So why would a neutral journalist take the cut of the video if not to manipulate?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 06:06 PM |
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It's sad how fast people forgot about people and became surrogate politicians. Why nobody talks about people that will never be drinking cold beers again, people who will need 'a special infractruture' to just try to live 'normally', people with PTSD (well, there is no such diagnosis in Russia), children that lost their parents? Now nobody understands what does it even mean - to demilitarize an independent country. How an independent country is supposed to protect itself after demilitarization? If NATO is the enemy of Russia, shouldn't Russia rather demilitarize the whole bloc then?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 06:35 PM |
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I repeat the picture I posted above -
They haven't been drunk while driving. Look into their eyes. Sometimes I think politicians aren't even humans, they are biorobots not from our planet.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted May 13, 2022 06:39 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 18:41, 13 May 2022.
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These questions should be asked to those who mutilated Ukraine and its people, and continue their monstrous experiments (that is, the West). Russia is forced to save Ukraine, in fact, taking part in the civil war in Ukraine - on the right side.
Guys - yes, just victims of the games of irresponsible politicians.
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