|
| Thread: The Middle East Violence... Israel vs Palestine |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
HeyYou
Known Hero
and beloved food provider.
|
posted October 13, 2002 06:54 AM |
|
|
I find it interesting that a particular piece of constantly worn-torn land is considered by its inhabitants as "holy."
I'm sure God would be proud.
____________
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
~ Hanlon's Razor
|
|
Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
|
posted October 13, 2002 01:18 PM |
|
|
Freak is right.
I do have a question though..
You are jewish right? Doesn't your bible say anything about killing another and turning the other cheek or something like that?
I'm not saying I follow the holy book, but I have heard something about it. Now I don't know what Jewish religion is about so could you explain to us what it means to be Jewish?
And I also don't understand the term Holy War.. what does that mean?
____________
The darkest skies show the brightest stars
|
|
Slava14
Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 03:26 PM |
|
|
Quote:
And I also don't understand the term Holy War.. what does that mean?
To know that asks the extermal islamists and the Medieval crusaders, not us. We haven't ever had a "holy" war. 
____________
I'm always happy to help.. unless I'm helping myself.
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 03:34 PM |
|
|
You claim "God" gave you the land
Islamic people claim "God" gave you the land
The Christian crusaders claim "God" gave them the land
Are you seeing a pattern here? Either there is more than one god, or the one true "God" is extremely forgetful, or one of these factions is clearly lying! But how are you supposed to tell whom? Presumably these palestinians were 2000 year long squatters on the land! (something I'd say gave them a right to say what happens to it).
Next point - I never said you didn't work at it, but the country could not have reached it's current point without heavy financial backing. You wouldn't have even won the last 3 major wars if the west had not sold you tanks and weapons cheaply. In 1973 the country would have fallen but for america flying in ammunition and new technology in the midst of the war.
And no none of the arab nations care about palsetine, this having something to with the fact that most of the nations around there are dictatorships lining there own pockets. So no-one cares for them, how nice and generous of the world. They had no-one caring for them before you arrived, and now no-one cares for them unless they can use them as a weapon. Well what a nice world we all live in hey?
Oh and think on this for a second. A nation comes in and kicks out the inhabitants (according to your wishes), to neugbouring countries and then claims the land on some spurious religious grounds. Are you aware how alike this sounds to ethnic cleansing? Oh and there was a deal on the cards some years ago where Jordan offered to take all palestinian arabs into their country in return for the return of the west bank lands. For some reason you refused to accept. Never mind huh, seems someone did care but when it comes down to it both sides are a little too entrenched to give way even the slightest.........
Quote:
To know that asks the extermal islamists and the Medieval crusaders, not us. We haven't ever had a "holy" war.
But god gave you the land! (according to you anyway) Surely your fight for independance was therefore sanctioned by god? Or does he simply sit on the sidelines watching to see who wins? You may not define it as a holy war, but every war you have fought has been against Islamic nations, and not all of these wars have been for purely defensive reasons. Presumably you invaded israel in 1956 to simply steal the land of the sinai off them then?
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
Slava14
Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 03:46 PM |
|
|
Quote:
But god gave you the land! (according to you anyway) Surely your fight for independance was therefore sanctioned by god? Or does he simply sit on the sidelines watching to see who wins? You may not define it as a holy war, but every war you have fought has been against Islamic nations, and not all of these wars have been for purely defensive reasons. Presumably you invaded israel in 1956 to simply steal the land of the sinai off them then?
It is possible that the wars can be concidered as holy, but we never clamed the wars to be holy. Anyway a holy war is holy for everyone in it. Hitler also said that his war is holy ("gott mit uns").
____________
I'm always happy to help.. unless I'm helping myself.
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 03:56 PM |
|
|
So basically A holy war is only one the people consider to be sanctioned by god, and yet I would say God if he existed would probably not sanction any war in which the aims are not purely defensive or to remove a terrible evil (such as hitler), so therefore none of the islamic holy wars on you, nor the crusades were holy whatsoever, just simply rubbish claimed by the people in power at the time to justify a war.
So you cannot really throw around the accusation that only christians and islamic nations launch holy wars when they don't really and neither most of the time do you.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
Slava14
Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 04:02 PM |
|
|
Quote:
So basically A holy war is only one the people consider to be sanctioned by god, and yet I would say God if he existed would probably not sanction any war in which the aims are not purely defensive or to remove a terrible evil (such as hitler), so therefore none of the islamic holy wars on you, nor the crusades were holy whatsoever, just simply rubbish claimed by the people in power at the time to justify a war.
So you cannot really throw around the accusation that only christians and islamic nations launch holy wars when they don't really and neither most of the time do you.
I also think that there's no such thing as a holy war. I just said that the Crusaders, at their time, and the extremist now *claim* that they war is(was) holy, and we haven't ever claimed any of our wars to be holy. (do you know that Jihad is "holy war"? I'm sure you do .. and I'm absolutely sure you've heard of the terroristic argonisation named The Islamic Jihad.. and that's my whole point)
____________
I'm always happy to help.. unless I'm helping myself.
|
|
freakmebaby
Known Hero
Rude by nature
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 04:02 PM |
|
|
its very hard 4 me 2 write all this in english,
but 2 romana , yes it says in r "tora" (bibble) that we sould not kill .
but there is a comnmenet 2 clan out isarel land from whats calls "amalak" witch is the arabs .
we didnt do what it says ... when we came in isarel .
we killd 90% of all that livd here.
but there was 10% that the jews said 2 let them live!
witch was a mistake and a direct opsit of what god said .
he said 2 kill 100% not even 2 leave there animals.
b/c or fathers did not finsh them off totlay then.
now they grew and r many.
so what i think and many more is 2 finsh off all of them and do what god relly told us 2 do./
but there r many prob with that 2 day.
i can just tell u what it says in r tora.
soon very soon ...... will be the final WAR -"GOG OMAGOG"
were the hole world with attack isarel .
and the arabs will rule us 4 severel months.
and then some far contey will come and attack .
and this will be the end of the world.
its all wirtten .
were in the end of days.
and only the true belivers will live.
not the strong armys, - just the belivers .
and about the war that was in 1973 do u know what the odds were ?
like 7-1.
+ it was a fast day (ppl didnt eat or drink)
the only reson we won was b/c of the help of god.
not that r army was super strong and best many armys with less the half the plans that they had.
____________
Freak.
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 04:19 PM |
|
|
*sighs* One says one thing, another says something different!
Slava - Yes I've heard of Jihad and yes it means holy war, but I happen to have gone beyond simple literal translations to discover that 1st - it is a personal struggle and not nationwide. 2nd - it is supposed to be persued by diplomatic terms before war. So I would say that is not following islamic beliefs. Which is my point people never learn to distinguish between the religion's core beliefs and writings and the actions of the religion. They see the crusades and jihad and assume that this is normal practice when it is not.
Freak - I happen to have read an awful lot of Israeli history and yes I know the odds of the 1973 war. I also know you had better tanks, better training, better infrastructure, better defensive terrain and better commanders. Oh yes and you were resupplied heavily just prior to being out of tank ammunition, so I geuss those kinda had something to do with the victory wouldn't you say? Or would you simply think that no matter what "god" would pull you through, which kinda argues that he backed you in these wars, therefore they were holy wars I'd say but that's just me.
____________
We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
|
|
Slava14
Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 04:24 PM |
|
|
I see you point... and, strangely, I have nothing to say... (only to repeat myself...  ).. so I'll go offtopic and say...
It's funny that you called freakmebaby "Freak"...
____________
I'm always happy to help.. unless I'm helping myself.
|
|
freakmebaby
Known Hero
Rude by nature
|
|
posted October 13, 2002 04:30 PM |
|
|
we will see we will see............
____________
Freak.
|
|
DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 09:03 AM |
|
|
Well, it seems like I agree with Hudson for once.
Saying that God grants you victories, man, that's repulsive. Would you explain every victory the nazi's had in WWII the same way? Thought not.
And who are the British to promise this land to the palestinians, you ask, FreakmeBaby. Well, I don't know if you remember who gave you the country in 1948... GREAT BRITAIN!!!!! So maybe you shouldn't shoot yourself in the foot by saying ignorant and stupid things like that.
This is going nowhere. Isn't there a mod out there with courage or guts or whatever enough to close this down? My mood does definitely not improve while reading this thread, and I don't think it offers anything constructive to anyone. Noone will change their mind (except the Gootch), so lets leave it at that.
Kill well
DonGio
____________
There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
|
|
Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 01:17 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Isn't there a mod out there with courage or guts or whatever enough to close this down?
Unfortunately the only mod out here, Romana, encourages Freak´s "I-say-yes-to-genocide"-babbling. Quote:
Romana:
"Freak is right."
I´ve never been a mod basher in my life, but the recent mixture of authoritarian behaviour and the supporting of opinions which are not only racist, but also have the mentality and morality of suicide bombers, is going over the roof.
____________
|
|
Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 02:14 PM |
|
|
The only mod out there?@
Are your eyes failing u?
Just because Romana is the one posting and doing things in public the most doesn't say that the other mods just lay back and enjoy the view.
Strange to se that comment comming from u LT.
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
|
|
Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
posted October 14, 2002 02:16 PM |
|
|
And Freak is as entitled to his opinion as u are to yours!@
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
|
|
Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 02:51 PM |
|
|
He surely is entitled to his racist opinion, but when a mod responds to
Quote:
so 4 me a good arab is a dead arab any arab!
by saying "Freak is right", then I am entitled to question her qualifications as a mod.
____________
|
|
privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 03:22 PM |
|
|
|
Lews it would be good to give romana a chance to say which part of the statement she agreed with and not assume she agreed with all of it? I suspect she does not support such an idea at all.
|
|
IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 05:53 PM |
|
|
I don't see any reason why freak should think anything else of Arabs. I am sure that if you were at his place you would have had the same opinion. The human brain works very much like a computer: it has some input data which can then be used to calculate things. Well, if the only thing you know about Arabs is that they are killing your people, and would kill you on sight if there is no one watching - then I guess that it's ok to hate all Arabs.
Not that I agree with this, because even in Israel I had some Arabic friends but you must understand how hard it is to get this opinion. For you it's easy to say that we are all wrong because you don't live where we live and don't experience what we do, but for someone in Israel you have to be very optimistic, good natured, loving person in the world to live in peace. I mean, years of experience are a hard (and often wrong) thing to ignore.
Also, you say that the guy is racist - but in fact he only means that he hates most arabs in Israel, he doesn't know about Arabs outside because he never met them.
____________
|
|
Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 05:55 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Lews it would be good to give romana a chance to say which part of the statement she agreed with and not assume she agreed with all of it? I suspect she does not support such an idea at all.
Yep thats it.. I for a fact know that Romana isn't a suporter of any racism.
I didn't read the entire thread myself.. I will do that now.
That kind of talk I won't allow here!@
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
|
|
bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
|
|
posted October 14, 2002 05:59 PM |
|
|
Quote:
he doesn't know about Arabs outside because he never met them.
Then why does he say he wants them dead?
|
|
|
|
