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FireSpirit
Famous Hero
with warm hands
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posted November 03, 2006 02:24 PM |
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Quote:
and besides, actually wind CAN form boulders.
No, it can't, boulders are actually reshaped by the sand the wind is carrying - little grains of sand grind the surface of the stone causing it to slowly wear down. If there is no sand, the stone will remain undamaged--This leads to the conclusion that wind alone isn't very powerful unless it's carrying something to do the wearing out with.
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Dragonbreath
Famous Hero
Me like dragons!
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posted November 03, 2006 02:26 PM |
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*sigh* He is right about the boulder thing, but I always imagined the elements that way. Is Ted the only one who wants to give me feedback on my creature lineup?
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vhilhu
Famous Hero
We are NOT schysophren
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posted November 03, 2006 02:59 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
and besides, actually wind CAN form boulders.
No, it can't, boulders are actually reshaped by the sand the wind is carrying - little grains of sand grind the surface of the stone causing it to slowly wear down. If there is no sand, the stone will remain undamaged--This leads to the conclusion that wind alone isn't very powerful unless it's carrying something to do the wearing out with.
neither would sand alone 
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Two little Gnoll boys sitting in the sun;
One got frizzled up and then there was one.
One little Gnoll boy left all alone;
He went and hung himself and then there were none.
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted November 03, 2006 04:19 PM |
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Quote:
*sigh* He is right about the boulder thing, but I always imagined the elements that way. Is Ted the only one who wants to give me feedback on my creature lineup?
Maybe
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Visit my Site!
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weakofrabbits
Hired Hero
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posted November 04, 2006 01:27 AM |
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an exellent idea to have the conflux return but there are deifinetly some changes neede,new units and such
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Indeed
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 04, 2006 02:27 AM |
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Edited by Daystar at 04:52, 04 Nov 2006.
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I hate to point this out, but all boulders in HOMM are just one model, and they don't change over time anyway.
@ Sinbad: those numbers next to the Elementals are the costs of combining them with other elementals.
Lv7: Chaos Elemental
Urgashan: The offspring of Urgash and Elrath, these are the ancestors of all elementals, including their dirrect decendants, the Chaos Elementals.
History: The Cult of the Elementalists grew in correlation with the Necromancers. At first, before the Necromancers became to dangerous, the Elementalists and Necromancers had a loose alliance, both sharing knowledge. (Elementalists of Summoning, Necromancers of Animating)
However, when the Necromancers' experiments became to dangerous, the Elementalists split from them. At first they tried to remain neutral in the Wizard/Necromancer war, but, as the fighiting dragged on, the Wizards began to blame the Elementalists for the fiasco. And so the Elementalists left the Silver cites, not reapearing for several decades.
When they do reapear, their power has grown conssiderably. They are organized into a loose Tribe-Like system, with their Elder, Vin'tucket, leading them with a benevolent hand. However, they are still small, and due to the amount of war that rages in Ashan, they decide not to attempt conquest, but to find some one that will take them.
This turns out to be the Elves, who teach them a great deal about nature and mysicism. For a while this peace lasts, until a new Elder, Vir'camous, rises to the throne as Vin'tucket passes away. Vir'camous decides that the time is right to seize control of some land of their own, and attack the elves on the border between Irollan and the Holy Griffin Empire. There are several skirmishes, and the Elementalists, realizing defeat, retreat into Ygg Chall.
The Dark Elves are happy to accept the Elementalists, happy for allies in their confrontations. Vir'camous, however, is eventually killed while taming an Urgashan. His successor, Queen Nim'thalia, eventually brings the Elementalists to a more stable organization, and, in order to contorl the Urgashans, convinces the Elementalists to worship Elrath. Elrath, please with followers, gives contorl of the Urgashans to the Elementalists. It is now 968 YSD.
Aliances:
Wood Elves: A dull dislike.
Dark Elves: Apart from religious disputes, the are on very good terms.
Wizards: No grudges are left to bear.
Necromancers: While contacts with these sorcerrors are few and far between, they are still on good terms, as they both were outcast by the Wizards.
Demons: The demons dislike them, as Urgash had wanted the Urgashans for his demons.
Holy Griffin Empire: There has been little contact.
Dwarves: Like the Dark Elves, they have had territory disputes.
BTW: Some Elementals I modeled:
 Ice Elemental
 Sand Elemental
 Storm Elemental
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 04, 2006 02:10 PM |
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Well ... Here's another loose concept for a Conflux town. It's build on Daystar's ideas about merging the elementals, so full credit should be given to him - that was a very interesting idea, I think. I have, however, modified it a bit.
The overall concept of mixing elements looks like this:
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Buildings and Unit Levels
This model for the Conflux is radically different from the other towns in the game - and for that reason alone, I'm not sure it'd work at all.
There is only 3 Creature Dwellings:
- The Elemental Channel -> Generates Air, Water, Fire and Earth Manifestations
- The Elemental Portal -> Generates Air, Water, Fire and Earth Elementals
- The Elemental Altar -> Generates Air, Water, Fire and Earth Spirits
These buildings are not upgraded in the common sense. Instead, there are 6 extensions, that can be build, each corresponding to a combination of two elements. Each Dwelling can have 2 extensions only, and each extension can be build only once. The extensions can also not be combined randomly, but must be combined so that the elements add up to the 4 different elements. The extensions are:
- Shrine of Storm: Merges Air + Water = Storm
- Shrine of Magma: Merges Fire + Earth = Magma
- Shrine of Plasma: Merges Air + Fire = Plasma
- Shrine of Mud: Merges Water + Earth = Mud
- Shrine of Dust: Merges Air + Earth = Dust
- Shrine of Steam: Merges Water + Fire = Steam
Thus, if you build the Shrine of Storm with the Elemental Channel, you will be able to recruite Storm Manifestations instead of Air and Water Manifestations. Also, because the remaining two elementals are Fire + Earth, you can only build the Shrine of Magma with the Elemental Channel, once the Shrine of Storm has been build. When these extensions are used with the Elemental Channel, only the four remaining extensions are available with the Elemental Portal and Elemental Altar.
Unit Levels
The Units are:
- Level 1: Manifestations of Air / Water / Fire / Earth
- Level 2: Manifestations of Storm / Magma / Plasma / Mud / Dust / Steam
- Level 3: Elementals of Air / Water / Fire / Earth
- Level 4: Elementals of Storm / Magma / Plasma / Mud / Dust / Steam
- Level 5: Spirits of Air / Water / Fire / Earth
- Level 6: Spirits of Storm / Magma / Plasma / Mud / Dust / Steam
- Level 7: Firebird / Phoenix
Notice the following, however:
- Level 2 units are made FROM level 1 units, level 4 units are made FROM level 3 units, and level 6 units are made FROM level 5 units.
- In each city, only 2 of the 6 types of units at level 2, 4 and 6 will be available.
- Each of the "elements" Storm, Magma, Plasma etc. can only be present once - either at level 2, 4 or 6.
- Thus, in a fully build town, the player will have not the usual level 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 unit line-up, but rather level 2-2-4-4-6-6-7.
Unit Properties
Each element has some general properties, that will be reflected in the elements:
Air: Swiftness, Incorporeality, Low HP, Low Damage
Water: Even in most properties, Spells, Evasion
Fire: Attack, Damage, Range, Low Defence
Earth: Defence, High HP, Magic Proof, Sluggishness
The higher the level of the unit, the more of the properties will be present. Also, units of Combined elemental nature will have properties from both classes.
Below is a conceptual sketch of the Building arrangement, as well as drafts of unit statistics. I haven't come up with a proper level 1 unit yet - it has to be something related to either all 4 elements, or something else.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted November 04, 2006 02:50 PM |
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Alc, you are crazy 
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Already gone...
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weakofrabbits
Hired Hero
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posted November 04, 2006 03:14 PM |
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wow this is very well thought out but the conflux would have an unfair advantage if it was the only faction that could do this
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Indeed
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 04, 2006 03:47 PM |
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Alc, you are crazy
I take that as a complement.
Quote:
wow this is very well thought out but the conflux would have an unfair advantage if it was the only faction that could do this
I'm not sure it'd actually be that much of an advantage - it's just ... different. To ballance it, the "upgraded" creatures would just need to be a bit weaker than the other creatures of the corresponding level, because they have a higher growth, but I think it could work.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 04, 2006 03:54 PM |
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not if it was balanced correctly. Alc, I like the Idea, but It seems to be a little to complicated. could you dummy it down so simple children (eg, me) can get it?
Some little things: How about shifting all creature levels down 1 level, so Lv1 would be manifestations, lv3 would be Elementals etc, and then Lv7 would be combinations of Lv6 Spirits.
Clay, not Mud,
Sand, not Dust.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 04, 2006 04:27 PM |
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Daystar > I know ... it's really quite difficult to explain it in a simple way, but it's really not that complicated. Here are the basics:
1. Three levels of elementals: Manifestations, Elementals, and Spirits.
2. Elementals are combined to mix two elementals, which yields the 6 combinations. This yields new creatures for level 3, 5 and 7.
3. Each city can only have one each of the types Storm, Magma, Plasma, Clay, Dust (or Sand) and Steam. This yields some tactical opportunities for variations, because you will need to decide which you will have at the lower levels and which at the higher. Because each have their own specialization - some of tough, others are fast, and yet others do great damage - it will make a diference which you choose for your most powerfull.
About changing the levels - I considered that several times. I might have prefered a 1 > 2; 3 > 4; 5 > 6 scheem for the elemental beings, but the current elementals are level 4, and cannot easily be made into level 3 units with the specials they have. Also, at level 2, you can only have so many special abilities without being overpowered, so all in all, I think it could work as it is now.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 04, 2006 04:31 PM |
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alright.
So, let's talk about level one units. what do we want? The planeswalker thing from my original line up?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted November 04, 2006 04:42 PM |
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Quote:
alright.
So, let's talk about level one units. what do we want? The planeswalker thing from my original line up?
this was a problem in h3, it had pixies, lol
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Visit my Site!
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 04, 2006 04:46 PM |
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which are taken and would look silly.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 04, 2006 05:05 PM |
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I don't think Pixies were that bad a choice ... But I'm really at a loss here. I would like to see something that ties up to the elements in some way, but I don't know what it should be. It might be easier to find something for level 7 than for level 1.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 04, 2006 08:52 PM |
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that's why i said shift everything down one, and have Lv7 be combos of level six!
Wait a sec, I will post a thing that show the combinations.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Dragonbreath
Famous Hero
Me like dragons!
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posted November 04, 2006 09:04 PM |
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What about my lineup on page 3? Wisps aren't very elemental, I know, but pixies weren't either.
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Sindbad
Famous Hero
The lost soul
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posted November 04, 2006 09:13 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Alc, you are crazy
I take that as a complement.
Actually, I meant it literally... But dont take me wrong - everyone here must be crazy to do something soooo useless. I mean useless - spend so much time and work just to improve a game? Aint it crazy? Well, I think its sad actually...  So much useful stuff could be made while we are having fun here...
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Already gone...
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted November 04, 2006 09:49 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 21:58, 04 Nov 2006.
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This is The Blood Elemental:
The Acid Elemental:
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This thread is pages long: 
