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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 18, 2006 06:05 PM |
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fair enough.
i'm still using them though, as wisps and changlings
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 18, 2006 06:51 PM |
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For sure ... Don't think you'll have much success with the Flower Elemental, though. 
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 18, 2006 07:25 PM |
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has anybody else thought of an alternative racial skill for the conflux? it would be interesting with other racial skills and we weigh up which one is the best.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 19, 2006 02:34 PM |
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Well, let us know if you think of one.
I tried, but I can't really come up with any good combos with light/dark elementals. I understand the methodology, but then you would think there would be Order and Chaos Elementals. We could have Light/Dark as summonable, but other than that I can't see them working. Btw, I'm working on a CG concept of the town.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 19, 2006 02:58 PM |
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I'd deffinitely love to see more graphic concepts for this town! Looking forward to it. 
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Daystar
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posted November 20, 2006 05:14 AM |
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Slightly off topic, but does anyone know of the names of any Gods from Erathia?
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 20, 2006 07:04 PM |
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no, i don't
i know the dragon gods of Ashan, though?
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Daystar
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posted November 21, 2006 04:24 AM |
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There it is, in all its glory!
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alcibiades
Honorable
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of Gold Dragons
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posted November 21, 2006 08:44 AM |
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I admire your efforts, and take this is thought as a preliminary sketch (?), but I have a few suggestions. I don't know whether you'll be able to incorporate this, but here it goes.
- Terraine: I see you have placed the buildings on some kind of none-descriptant grassy terrain. I don't know whether you have had any thoughts about what kind of terrain you want the town to be placed on - I would probably say, if you stick to the Japanese theme, a woody climate could be nice - probably something with spruce, not unlike the Heroes 3 Rampart. That's just one idea, and it might be too close to the Sylvan (which is, however, more related to the great oak theme).
- Layout: All the towns have some sort of circular layout, which the camera circles around, and most often with a pronounced vertical structure in the centre (Haven Castle, Sylvan Oaktree, Dungeon Stalactite). I think you'd have to think that into this city layout - either in terms of some geographical feature (that might be a lake, or a hill, or something else), or in terms of a structure.
I must admit, however, that this kind of work is not my strongest part, so maybe I should just let someone with a more creative mind do this.
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted November 21, 2006 04:47 PM |
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Quote:
There it is, in all its glory!
Looks good, but can you do one thing, add explanations as to what each building is
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 21, 2006 07:17 PM |
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i, personally, think that its good, however it could use some improvements.
terrain= yes that needs some work.
layout= yest that also needs some work.
apart from that, its fine.
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Daystar
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posted November 21, 2006 10:04 PM |
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Terrain and Layout. other than that, what's left? also, could you tell me what it is about them that needs the work, so I can fix it? Ty.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 21, 2006 10:19 PM |
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i would say more diversity amongst the dwellings, but i know how hard you worked on them, so i won't
possibly include a grail building?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 22, 2006 12:25 AM |
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There are many things you have to consider here. First off, you have to think Unity. What you have made here just looks like a couple of scattered buildings (that looks nice individually), but the total doesn't work. That's very much the Heroes IV error - this was why most of the H4 towns looked really ugly! Here, I'll share some of my thoughts with you.
Symmetry
Most importantly, all of the towns have some sort of circular symmetry with a vertical axis in the centre. This Axis of Symmetry can take many shapes - it can be either a feature of the geography (Inferno: A volcanic pinnacle; Sylvan: A tree; Dungeon: A Stalagmite) or it can be a structure (Haven and Necropolis: Vertical, Gothic-style reach-for-heaven building; Academy: Central complex with circular layout). This circular symmetry is all-important for the way the camera sweeps around the town.
Relief
The relief (basically: which direction the central axis points) can be either positive (central axis points upwards (Castle, Necropolis, Inferno, Academy and partially Sylvan) or negative (central axis points downwards (mostly Dungeon, but also to some extent Sylvan - the location of the town in the centre of the lake makes for a local elevation minimum point, and thus, the whole area has negative relief towards the topographic surroundings).
Coherence
The buildings should be more or less coherent. This is especially evident in the Castle, where all the buildings add up to one great structure, and the Academy, where all the dwellings form a huge floating ring around the Capitol. Also, Necropolis and Inferno form one great structure, whereas Sylvan and Dungeon more concist of a scattered set of buildings around the central structure.
Now, the question is then, how do we apply this to make a nice town-layout? Well, some ideas to consider follows here.
Architectural theme and Terrain
The Architectural style and the Terrain type should somehow fit each other. At hand, I have three outlines for ideas, I don't necessarily think that one has to stick to any of these, but it's just to give you some input.
Japanese Style - Forest Lake
This one would deffinitely look very nice. It would be akin to the Heroes 3 Rampart, which was probably the most atmospheric of the Heroes 3 towns. One could have a circilar lake as the central structure - possibly with a great pagoda in the centre to represent the City Hall / Capitol - and then the dwellings as minor pagoda surrounding the lake. A couple of conceptual images:
 
Pros: Atmospheric, nice to look at.
Cons: Very much akin to Sylvan. No inherant terrain (woods?).
Japanese Style - Karst Landscape or Volcano Style
Whereas the above is based mostly on a negative relief, this one would be a positive relief, with a central geographical structure. This structure could either be a Karst Hill (see pictures below), or it could be a Volcanic cone - the clasical mount Fujiyama comes to mind whenever one speaks of Japan. The problem with this approach is, that it's difficult to imagine a settlement that would cover the entire of a structure of such a size.
 
Pros: Different from Sylvan. Volcanic relation fits with Phoenix.
Cons: Difficult to imagine a town structure of this size.
Maya Style - Jungle Landscape
Ironically, the concept I initially liked the least might be the one that is actually best suitable for a town layout. The pictures below show the obviously ease with which such a structure could form the centre of a town. Furthermore, the often geometrical layout of Mayan temple plazas would make for a nice surrounding for dwellings. Finally, the Jungle connection would give this a terrain type to separate it from the other towns (however, Jungle in itself is not so much a terrain as a decoration - thus, one would have to tie Jungle up on swamp, which might not suite these units the best).
 
Pros: Easy to conform to city-layout, unique style.
Cons: Terrain type, suitibility for faction.
Building types
One should think not only in dwellings, but also in financial and military structures. Especially the Military structure is easily conceived in a Japanese / Asiatic theme (Great Wall style). Tavern, marketplace, blacksmith, etc. might also be considered, although all details obviously would not need to be worked out.
Haven't got time and mind for more right now, this is just ment to give you some ideas, if you want it. I might get back with more.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 22, 2006 06:43 PM |
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he's pretty much summed it up for me.
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Darkeye
Promising
Famous Hero
of the Deep
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posted November 22, 2006 09:45 PM |
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For my sake, I don't miss the conflux. The elementals and the sprites as the phoenixes are there still
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 22, 2006 11:48 PM |
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Well, to give some more input as to how city layout could be contructed, here's a conceptual plan of some of the buildings.
General theme is Japanese Lake, something akin to this:
Buldings would be pagoda-like structures of different hight depending on the number of stores (each square inside the other would signify a new level, as you would see it from the top). Buildings would have different textures and/or associate features to signify elemental relations. Buildings could be connected by pathways of stones protruding above the lake surface.
Central building would be City Hall. Diagonal Axis would constitute the Elemental Portals, that would build up in levels just like the Mage Guilds - level 1 to summon Manifestations, level 2 to summon Elementals, and level 3 to summon Spirits.
In between Elemental Portals are buildings representing the Elemental Forges in which the elements are combined - thus, in between Air (light purple) and Fire (red) is Plasma Shrine (light yellow), whereas Shrine of Steam is represented by two smaller buldings on the axis between Fire and Water (light blue).
Phoenix dwelling is not included in this concept, and neither is management nor military structures. These structures might be located on the shore around the lake.
Whole concept is very much Japanese Garden!
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Daystar
Honorable
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posted November 23, 2006 04:52 AM |
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thanks. I did not think I liked the Mayan/Aztec aproach, but those pictures actually pusuade me to try that. Thanks. I'll get to work. While I work on it, anyone got suggestions for military/economy buildings?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 23, 2006 03:58 PM |
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Interesting with the Japanese Temple for Nagas ... Might suggest there'd be more future in playing with the Mayan style indeed.
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Daystar
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posted November 23, 2006 04:23 PM |
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Well, work on the new town is progressing steadily.
also, some people might say that with all the different models and things that need to be done, (27 of them) that this town will not be a reality. However, they were willing to make 25 new units in Heroes V: HOF, so 27 new units is not that impossible.
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This thread is pages long: 
