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Daystar
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posted November 06, 2006 09:51 PM |
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Japaneese Architexture would be good, except for one thing: they have a very square shape, lots of hard edges and angles. In Heroes V all towns have a circular format to them.
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alcibiades
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posted November 06, 2006 09:52 PM |
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loads of cultures had the elements. the celts (who, unfortunately, are taken by the sylvan ) worshiped the elemental spirits, but treated the elementals themselves as a type of demon. the japanese had spirits of a certain elemental, but they gave names to them, rather than air spirit/elemental/manifestation, like Slyphs, salamanders and gnomes (not those names in particular, but you get my drift). the greeks looked at the elements (fire, earth, water and air) as the building blocks of all matter, and by a combination of these you would get stuff we used every day, but i don't know whether they had particular elemental creatures. the Norse worked on a similar bleif as the celts, but they saw the elementals as demons who should be cast out and made to wander the wilderness. the aztecs tried to harness the power of the elementals, and worshiped them as gods to gain their favour.
but theming the elementals will be very interesting, but does this mean that they are going to get more human?
That was a very usefull and interesting account.  I generally know my mythology, but obviously wasn't that aware with the elemental stuff. I'd probably still go for the Japanese style, although the Elemental view used in Heroes 5 probably coincides best with the Greek. The Greek style, however, would be very obvious for a Naga town (Atlantian) - of course, that is only because I want to tie the Naga with an Oceanic environment rather than the Swamp, that is generally favored in this forum (cf. the looooooong thread on the Naga town).
As for the races - I would not make the elemental one have any special ties to the Humans. In fact, I liked the way they did in Armageddon's Blade: To have the Conflux concist of a blend of all races, being populated by individuals who have given up their normal racial style and religion to follow the study of Elementary magic.
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And side note to Alci, the phoenix appears in Japanese mythos as well.
Nice. That would support the theme. 
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Japaneese Architexture would be good, except for one thing: they have a very square shape, lots of hard edges and angles. In Heroes V all towns have a circular format to them.
I don't really think that would be a problem. Maybe the buildings are square, but you can still have circular layouts of the buildings or geometrical layouts with circular symmetry.
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Dragonbreath
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posted November 07, 2006 01:24 AM |
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NO PHEONIX! It simply does not fit with the elements. I'd rather have a Flux Elemental -> Master Elemental, that would control all elements. It makes MUCH more sense than a random pheonix.
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alcibiades
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posted November 07, 2006 08:28 AM |
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Quite on the contrary, I think the Phoenix would be a much better choice than some random elemental, that should control the other elementals. It's an established unit, it's a level 7 unit, it has been with the Conflux previously - which makes it more easy to cope with - it representates "the essence of fire" (that's pretty elemental, isn't it!?), and it's already in the game without any ties to a faction. For me, it's the easiest choice that at the same time makes sense and solves a problem - so no, I really don't see why it shouldn't be the Phoenix.
Of course, if you can come up with an Elemental, that will add something to the line-up, you might convince me otherwise - but I think, with the present line-up of elementals, the limit is pretty much reached for how many elementals can be in the game.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted November 07, 2006 09:37 AM |
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I think that the Conflux town ruined H3.
It completely doesn't fit and looks ridiculous. All the other towns fit together like a glove and this one seems like it's just tagged on to fit in a whole bunch of elementals which should have remained summoned or neutral. It's a joke.
That's why I prefer Restoration of Erathia
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bixie
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posted November 07, 2006 06:27 PM |
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we have alot of ideas about the different styles of elemental faction. maybe we could do a theme each, i'll start with japanese. (if anyone else wants to do japanese, then thats fine by me)
i have probably mentioned before, but i was thinking that the actual town is elemental creatures (dryads, undines, wisps etc) rather than elementals themselves. elementals are cool, but they lack the sentience to become a actual town (how would they build the buildings if they had no other thought apart from to do their masters bidding( they needed individual thought, rather than just directions)) when i say human, i ment free thinking, with their own personalities, ways of warfare, etc. the Confluxion idea is great, but it should be for the elementals already in HommV, with additional spells to summon manifestations and spirits.
the elementals live on the junglish island across from Heresh. they are a proud race, who tend to get one everyones nerves because of their arrogance. they worship all the elemental dragons, and also Asha. they have been around since the creation of the world, and know alot about their history. they are ruled over by the emporer, who is elected by the congression of elemental masters (the elementalist to you and me) and the elemental spirits.
all elementals are human like, with a japanese culture. each element has a patron spirit who is a particular animal. as the elemental progress (upgrades) they begin to look like that animal.
byuuji- fox spirit and lord of the air elementals (slyphs)
Hewila- tiger spirit and lady of the light elementals (wisps)
Nibina- dolphin spirit and lady of the water elementals (undines)
Gumnuo- panda spirit and lady of the earth elementals (dryads)
Shadwo- gecko spirit and lord of the shadow elementals (changelings)
Raknas- dragon spirit and lord of the fire elementals (efreets)
the emporer- ruler of all the elementals and patron of the magic elementals (pheonixs)
units
wisp-> wisp geisha
wisps are the light elementals, and are the most numerous. they cannot attack, but use the light, reflected of their mirrors, to dazzle the opponenet and temporeally blind them.
(small, armed with a large mirror, shooter, dazzles enemy, upgrade can heal allies): light house
Slyph-> slyph trickster
slyphs are light hearted creatures of air and wind. they are creative, playful, quick thinking creatures that attack with their bowstaffs.
(small, armed with a bowstaff, flyer, upgrade is incorpeable): Aerial workshop
undine-> undine Oban
Undines are the solemn, studious creatures of water. they are seldom smiling, but they are always armed with longbows on the battlefeild.
(small, armed with a recurve bow and arrows, shooter, upgrade can cast some dark magic): watery pagoda
efreet-> efreet samurai
efreets are the embodyment of the fierce fire. large and imposing, they float across the battlefiel with twin swords, dealing damage and destruction only their element can.
(large, armed with twin samurai swords, walker, upgrade can teleport and cast fireball): fiery Dojo
dryad-> dryad sumo
Dryads are the kind, loving, earth creatures. they are large and corpulent, with a loving face and powerful arms. they are able to wrestle a knight of his horse.
(large, bare hands, walker, upgrade can heal and use stone spikes): ring of earth
changeling-> changeling shinobi
the Changelings are the silent creatures of shadow. quiet, shaded and swift, they dart across the battlefeild, sending knives into the enemy.
(small, armed with a myraid of knives, walker, upgrade can turn invisible and can cast phantom forces): shadowy shrine
pheonix-> pheonix ronin
pheonixes are the embodiement of magic. huge wings carry them into the battlefield, powerful spells leap from their fingers, and terrible claws take the enemies lives.
(large, bare hands, wings and claws (karate), flyer/spellcaster, upgrade is just better): temple of magic
just a few ideas for the japanese elemental faction.
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alcibiades
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posted November 07, 2006 09:51 PM |
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As much as I like your basic thoughts - and I do, I think the overall concept goes very well with the Mythology of Heroes 5 - I do believe, that this will be one of those towns, that'll stand as a miss-match of creatures that will normally be aligned elsewhere (Efreet with Inferno and Dryad with Sylvan are the most notorious). That makes me afraid that this town would end up lacking coherence.
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bixie
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posted November 07, 2006 10:07 PM |
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i can see your point
however, efreets are fire creatures, so the fact that they have been used in the previous heroes games as part of inferno doesn't mean much (look at gryphons, they were part of the dungeon for not one, but two games, now they are the holy figurehead of Haven)
dryads can be changed, as well. maybe not call them dryads, but instead focus on a rock spirit of somekind. I was only using Dryads as a tempory name, to be changed later, if you get my drift.
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alcibiades
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posted November 07, 2006 10:48 PM |
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Very correct. There is no such thing that is so set in stone that it cannot be changed - however, it is always strange to people when something changes - the Griffin moves from Dungeon to Haven, the Gargoyles move from Dungeon to Academy, the Hydra move from Dungeon to Fortress and then back again, and all the other examples. Therefore, I prefer to stick to the existing models, if possible - but of course, some things can always be changed, as long as there's a red line to give a context in the new line-up.
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Daystar
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posted November 07, 2006 11:11 PM |
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Also, we already have our line up:
Lv1 - Lv6: see previous pages on the subject.
Also, I had a thought. In keeping with the multiple choice per
level format, for level seven you can choose two of the following:
Fire Bird -> Phoenix: These creatures embody Air and Fire, which are two elements.
River Golem -> Torrent Golem: These creatures embody Earth and Water. They are hardy, tough creatures, slow but resistant to spells. It's form is like that of a very roughly scullpted man, a little smaller than a Titan.
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bixie
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posted November 08, 2006 04:42 PM |
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i was simply putting forward an idea for a faction.
the line up that you have is very good, however, can you change river golem and torrent golem to something that doesn't make people think of academy.
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alcibiades
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posted November 08, 2006 11:02 PM |
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I think there's plenty of room for other alternatives for line-ups. Just because we have one suggestion doesn't meen it couldn't be improved, or a completely different approach might be better. I agree that name Golem should be avoided at all cost, because that is signified with the Academy.
I see your point in bringin in the other elements at level 7, but have difficulty with finding a suitable creature that will add something to the faction besides the excisting elementals. I do feel that the River Golem you mention is very much like the Earth Elemental, just tougher, which is too repetitive.
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bixie
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posted November 09, 2006 06:08 PM |
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i was thinking of something...urm...frost based for earth and water. maybe a giant...erm... FPOST LORD (yeah that would do it) who has the power to...umm... CREATE GIANT SNOWSTORMS THAT BLANKET THE BATTLEFEILD and then he...ah... POPS UP UNDERNEATH AND DAMAGES THEM then...dammit... RETURNS TO THE PLACE HE CAME!!!!
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alcibiades
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posted November 09, 2006 06:36 PM |
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Hmmm ... If they hadn't just included the Magma Dragon, I'd say a Frost Dragon similar to the H3 Crystal Dragon might have been an option. Slower and walker, but with lots of HP and great defence and attack.
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Dragonbreath
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posted November 10, 2006 03:06 AM |
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I say Combo Ele -> Master Ele. It makes sense, admit it! And random frost things do not fit in to Conflux AT ALL. Pheonix doesn't either.
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alcibiades
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posted November 10, 2006 08:38 AM |
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Well, that's your oppinion, and I call my right to disagree. Personally, I think a town *entirely* of elementals would end up being boring. I think the introduction of some random elemental - that being the Psychic / Magic Elemental, or something else, has proven not to be very successfull with the H3 AB expansion. I think the Phoenix fits well with this town, because the Phoenix is an elemental bird. The Phoenix also was with the Elementals in Heroes 3 and 4, so it would be in line with the previous games. And finally, we currently have a Phoenix with no home-town, and this would solve that problem (I know Nival has a different oppinion, but personally, I think the idea of Neutrals is a bad one, and that they should be avoided at all cost possible). For all the above reasons, I still think the Phoenix is the best suggestion this far.
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Dragonbreath
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posted November 10, 2006 01:33 PM |
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I guess you're right...I surrender. Pheonix it is, then. As for the lvl 1, are my wisps all right? As for the lvl 7, I'd like something that represents ALL elements, not just fire and air. If not, we'll go with pheonix.
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bixie
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posted November 10, 2006 05:39 PM |
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my pheonixs represents magic, which bind all the elements (including shadow and light). they are much more humaniod, so they basically look like rainbow harpies in the karate costume, so not a elemental bird. lots of sparkly effects all round.
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alcibiades
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posted November 10, 2006 07:45 PM |
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I guess you're right...I surrender. Pheonix it is, then. As for the lvl 1, are my wisps all right? As for the lvl 7, I'd like something that represents ALL elements, not just fire and air. If not, we'll go with pheonix.
There hasn't got to be 1 thing that's "right", just wanted to share my thoughts for including the Phoenix. And in my line-up, the basic Manifestations constitute the level 1 units.
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They are much more humaniod, so they basically look like rainbow harpies in the karate costume (...] lots of sparkly effects all round.
How gay. 
I'd still opt for aligning the existing Phoenix and the very nice Firebird with this town.
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bixie
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posted November 10, 2006 08:27 PM |
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woah, where did you get the cool firebird, man
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