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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 01:29 AM |
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Weakest faction in the game?
I wonder which faction who is the weakest in the game. Some people seems to think that it is Academy, but I think they are wrong. Artificer is petty good and improves a unit on it weak points. And Nathir is one of the best early game heroes (but not as good as Dougal or Vladimir of course).
Some (newbies) pointed out that Necropolis was the weakest. This is soo wrong. Necropolis is a bit unbalanced but not weak. What can beat a +15 Vladimir or Kaspar with 1-3K skeleton Archers, Vampire Lords, Liches and some fooder. Nothing of course. I have only played multiplayer 3 times on Heroes V but I still think that I can take out most decent players with Vladimir on a Large+ map.
Inferno seems weak in the early game, but with gating a player can get extra units in important battles. That is very useful.
Haven... well have Dougal and train all Peasants to Archers => Marksmen and you get an incvicible army. No one can claim that Haven is weak.
Dungeon has low grown rates, but with those units it is extremely easy to clear out high-level neutral stacks. This makes the dungeon player very rich and gives the player all the recourses it needs. Plus, Warlocks are very potent spellcasters.
Now on Sylvan. Half-Decent units such as the Sprite or the Archdruid, a petty useless racial skill, bad heroes, bad skills. Is there anything good with these? I unfortunately think that the answer is no, they are in my opinion the weakest faction in the game.
Do you agree?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 28, 2006 01:45 AM |
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Well the game is pretty balanced on that matter... Sylvans have awesome archers early in the game, to survive until they get the druids. Their sprites can also be useful when upgraded since they cast cleansing. Treants are also pretty tough... I don't know, I somehow get worst results with Dungeon, they are good but I play quite bad with them for some reason...
But I definitely don't agree on the Sylvans being the weakest in the game
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Ma_trix
Adventuring Hero
Carpe Diem
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posted December 28, 2006 01:49 AM |
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You forgot about the fortess - slow "tanky" units with low damage, decent health and high defence. Considered just as they are - it is surely the weakest fraction! But then you have to add runes and the view is quite different. But still i would rather say that Fortess is weaker than Sylvan. I may be wrong coz i didn't play that much with Fortess as i have done with Sylvan.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 02:08 AM |
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Inferno is the strongest faction in the earlygame, not the weakest. In my humble opinion it's the strongest faction in the game, yet very underlooked. The only bad thing is the costs. The town is extremely costly in both gold and resources, but with such great creeping it's ok.
Academy ain't weak, ask 86wyp ;p Academy enjoys great creeping with havez (easy to get the tent, archmages are quite efficient) and the easiest-to-get upgraded level 7 in the game, aka Titan. You need only 20 gems and a bit of other ordinary resources to get titans, while a fortress player needs to get the same 20 gems just to get UNUPGRADED LEVEL 6 UNIT DWELLING. Ridiculous.
I'd say sylvan is kinda weak, because of their pathetic creeping, yet their endgame is very strong. Still, they need too much wood, and they have nothing to destroy strong shooters without huge loses. Definitely a faction for rich maps. Heroic diff may be really hard with sylvan, especially vs. potent rushers like Deleb. Worth to mention that their "perfect" army with skills like elven luck and properly used special is a real killer.
As for dungeon, their creeping isn't very good, contrary to what most people think. Sure, you can have fun with a stack of golems or minotaurs of any size, but archmages and druids are pretty much unkillable without HUGE loses, and they often guard the most important mines for dungeon >_> Besides the only good earlygame choice is eruina, because she can get tactics very soon and minimize the loses vs. shooters. People who like to start with sinitar may find shooters such as marksmen or master hunters impossible to beat without huge loses. Sure, you can sacrifice a whole bunch of assassins or blood furies or minotaurs while killing the shooters with spells, but what if there are more shooting creeps guarding important things on the map? you sacrifice one stack, second, third, and then WHOOPS the enemy has come and you don't have any fodder to blow him away. Damn.
Fortress.. Haven't made my mind up yet about them. The runes are marvelous, but none of the heroes starts with war machines, which is a pain. They suffer from ridiculous dwelling costs, but it's important to say they are the strongest army possible @ extremely rich map thanks to the runes.
Haven is imba, as we all know
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 02:12 AM |
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Academy has a slight resource disadvantage.Early on it will either skip golems or risk delaying rakshasas.Early lineup has no melee and susceptible shooters while you may not get the magic skils you want at once leaving you open to rushes.Building dwellings will deprive you of resources spent on mage guilds not to mention artificer.Good for creeping and gets better from midgame on.MMR helps if executed correctly.
Vladimir or Kaspar.Nothing.You are a heretic for mentioning both Nothing?Get serious.
Inferno is actually gaining an edge as of lately.
Sylvan.Loool.Their lineup,initiative,few good heroes(don't like most)and avenger more than make up for everything.Currently they suck vs haven but that's as long as the the next patch comes.They are hard to master.
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 02:18 AM |
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Edited by Homer171 at 02:20, 28 Dec 2006.
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What is strongest and what is the weakest town in the game all repence on the situtation, map size, skills, heroes...
Haven i consider the strongest town just because it does not have weak point in their army. Best way to take them down is the mid game but early and very long battles they are very strong. Like fortress_fan said no one can say Haven is weak!
Big spell casting heroes like Wizard and Warlock are very good in early-mid games when their magic are powerfull. In very long battles whit 10 populations or more they don't match for the might heroes and that is theyr weak point. They hafto attack before it's too late.
Sylvan town creatures are allright but i agree the Ranger hero is the most boring heroes in the game. But the strengt of the Sylvan is againts tows like Academy. Sylvan is one of the best town defender in the game if you are planning to win Academy best thing is to make the battle longer. Kill many neutrals whit Hunters and Druids and gain levels and Defense skill. When enemy tryes to attack go to town and buy all creatures and wait for the Academy hero to attack. It is hard to take Sylvan down in their own town whit all Treant sitting there. And when game continues on Sylvan comes stronger thanks to big Treant population and better defense.
Also the racial skill avenger comes in big need when defending town. And skills like imbue and sometimes Rain of Arrow is good to have if you have marked all strongest creatures of the attacking heros army.
Academy is just arent my town when i focuse more might than magic. For me they are weakest only cause they are good in mid way games but rather weak in very long battles when hero is only magic oriental and dosen't have any good attack and defense.
EDIT: It all comes down to likeness when i play my battles safe and don't want to rush whit the magics. And conquering the advanture map, gaining experience and levels are more important to me than straight forward attack to enemy towns.
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 02:19 AM |
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Quote:
You forgot about the fortess - slow "tanky" units with low damage, decent health and high defence. Considered just as they are - it is surely the weakest fraction! But then you have to add runes and the view is quite different. But still i would rather say that Fortess is weaker than Sylvan. I may be wrong coz i didn't play that much with Fortess as i have done with Sylvan.
Sorry, I have only played Hammers of Fate when I was visiting one of my friends. That was the main reason I didn't buy it, useless when it is coming a second add-on with a new, hopefully better town.
Quote:
Inferno is best in the early game
Perhaps in the early mid-game, but not in the really EARLY game. They haven’t got any shooters before the scrubs. I would rate them the fifth best early game town (sylvan is so weak that it isn't even funny. But when it gets those scrubby chics and some nightmares, Inferno is a very good town.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 02:23 AM |
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I've posted these somewhere else, but just to keep you informed:
This is week two. Now tell me again that inferno is weak in EARLYgame. Sheesh.  Or go and try to do that with "uber dungeon" in week two. 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 02:28 AM |
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I have played some games with the dwarves and I can say that they are not weak.However you must be really careful in skill picking as well as order of building.If handled correctly shielguards in day 2 can clear most neutrals up to tier 3 maybe some of 4.And blackbear riders in week 2 day 1 seem a must.But depending on your starting hero the game can become quite different something I don't see as much with other factions.Can't say how they fare compared to others for sure but generally compared they seem fine.What needs to be adressed are the requirements for some dwellings most notably thanes,brawlers and runepriests.
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 02:28 AM |
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Quote:
Vladimir or Kaspar.Nothing.You are a heretic for mentioning both Nothing?Get serious.
I may be stupid, but I don't get what you mean. Vladimir is my favourite Necomancer because of his powerful Raise dead spell. I though Kaspar was weak, until I finded out that he can cast Raise dead twice per round for three rounds. Necromancers are the opposite of Rangers, very few weak heroes (only Orson and Deidre).
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 02:31 AM |
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Quote:
I've posted these somewhere else, but just to keep you informed:
This is week two. Now tell me again that inferno is weak in EARLYgame. Sheesh. Or go and try to do that with "uber dungeon" in week two.
WOW! Sorry, I have to play Inferno more, I play Academy and Necrpolis to much.
Horned demons... And I though they where weak...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 02:32 AM |
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Hey doomforge!That's Deleb you are talking about!(D'uh!What else could it be?  )That's misleading for the power of inferno.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 02:33 AM |
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Hmmm...
In my opinion, It goes like that:
1. Academy-Powerfull shooters and casters, artificer is extremely strong.
2. Dungeon-Even with low growth, creatures are very fast and have a lot of HP to their levels.
3. Haven-Training skill is very strong, and there is the Resurrection of the Archangles, Griffins and Paladins...
4. Inferno-Gating and similiar high initiative to all creatures, does a continuity of Inferno's turns.
5. Sylvan-Good shooters, but when you block them, even with weak creature, after blocking them the battle is qouit easy.
6. Necropolis-Good abilities, but the creatures are just to weak. And every says "All the newbies think that Necropolis weak"... The fact is that every faction beats them... Read battle reaports!
I didn't play enough with Fortress to talk about them...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 02:40 AM |
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Quote:
I may be stupid, but I don't get what you mean. Vladimir is my favourite Necomancer because of his powerful Raise dead spell. I though Kaspar was weak, until I finded out that he can cast Raise dead twice per round for three rounds. Necromancers are the opposite of Rangers, very few weak heroes (only Orson and Deidre).
It's not about mental prowess! You are just missing some things.His special doesn't raise MANY more hit points(1 power per 5 lvls?),everyone starts with raise dead and raise dead decreases the stacks hp by 20% everytime you cast it.He was really good in 1.0 where raise dead was also cheaper.He's just a mediocre hero though he can get easily haunted mines.SUmmoning magic in general has increased costs for a necromancer's low knowledge with or without mark of the necromancer.
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 02:40 AM |
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Quote:
6. Necropolis-Good abilities, but the creatures are just to weak. And every says "All the newbies think that Necropolis weak"... The fact is that every faction beats them... Read battle reaports!
Vladimir or Kaspar and 1K (free)Skeleton Archers(and some fodder, mostly Vampires and Liches). Incvicible on every difficulty, even if you would give the AI 100000000000 gold. I won with Kaspar against a friend of mine 3 Days ago, so I think that it work on multiplayer as well.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 02:43 AM |
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Quote:
Vladimir or Kaspar and 1K (free)Skeleton Archers(and some fodder, mostly Vampires and Liches). Incvicible on every difficulty, even if you would give the AI 100000000000 gold. I won with Kaspar against a friend of mine 3 Days ago, so I think that it work on multiplayer as well.
Uhh...I'd be reluctant if I were you.
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 02:49 AM |
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It works well with EVERY Necromancer (except the realy bad ones). Yes sure, my favourites have been tooned down a bit and Lucretia (which unfortunately starts with Sorcery) are petty good too. But still, In my opinion Vladimir is the best one.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted December 28, 2006 02:50 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
6. Necropolis-Good abilities, but the creatures are just to weak. And every says "All the newbies think that Necropolis weak"... The fact is that every faction beats them... Read battle reaports!
Vladimir or Kaspar and 1K (free)Skeleton Archers(and some fodder, mostly Vampires and Liches). Incvicible on every difficulty, even if you would give the AI 100000000000 gold. I won with Kaspar against a friend of mine 3 Days ago, so I think that it work on multiplayer as well.
I'm not talking about Kasper or what ever...
I'm talking about the whole faction.
And It's weak!
It has a great abilities, that's right.
But still, so weak...
In a battle with the same amount of creatures Necropolis losses against every other faction
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 28, 2006 02:53 AM |
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Did someone mention same amount?  evil:
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 28, 2006 02:55 AM |
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Quote:
In a battle with the same amount of creatures Necropolis losses against every other faction
You can't compare them like that. Because:
In every battle after the early game Necropolis will have 1K archers even with a half-decent player leadning them and will win the battle even if Zoltan is the commanding hero
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