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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 05, 2007 07:44 PM |
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Bah, there aren't so many treasure chests unless you play a very rich map, which again is favorable to Haven. Like the 6 Gold Mine example...
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Ma_trix
Adventuring Hero
Carpe Diem
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posted January 05, 2007 07:53 PM |
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There are always between 5 to 10 chests somewhere around your castle, reachable in at most a week - it means between 5000 to 20000 gold! It's a great ammount of this resource! I'm sure it helps a lot with town development.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 05, 2007 07:59 PM |
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that means around 15000 exp, which is around level 10 or so... isn't that worth for 20000 Gold?
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 05, 2007 08:03 PM |
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Ah the age old debate. I remember the first time I ever encountered Heroes (one) my friend was playing and I said you should always take experience because a stronger hero = a win.
Anyways there is no point in arguing about. You have your personal preference. My answer is that it depends on the situation.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Ma_trix
Adventuring Hero
Carpe Diem
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posted January 05, 2007 08:06 PM |
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There is a problem with exp - count it as for final battle, not for beginning battles Why? Because even having 4 levels more (let's say it is that much more you have after having 6-8 chests taken) in the beginning battles gives you very little. And for last battle as your hero should be around 15? 17? level on normal maps, this 15000 exp more means around ONE level higher hero than opponents. Or this gold may mean stronger or better developed army - and army gives much more than one level more
I used to take only exp from chests but when i forsake this habit - i saw that taking gold is much better.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted January 05, 2007 08:10 PM |
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First week take experience, 2nd week onwards take gold would be perfect 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 05, 2007 08:14 PM |
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I agree it's a good strategy to take gold from week 2 onwards, as it helps develop your town faster; maybe i was an XP freak
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 05, 2007 08:17 PM |
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Quote:
There is a problem with exp - count it as for final battle, not for beginning battles Why? Because even having 4 levels more (let's say it is that much more you have after having 6-8 chests taken) in the beginning battles gives you very little. And for last battle as your hero should be around 15? 17? level on normal maps, this 15000 exp more means around ONE level higher hero than opponents. Or this gold may mean stronger or better developed army - and army gives much more than one level more
I used to take only exp from chests but when i forsake this habit - i saw that taking gold is much better.
Exactly!! people who take gold can develop faster, and gain a bigger army in the end for a tiny price of being 2-3 levels lower than opponent in the midgame. Bigger army allows to kill bigger things, so the difference in levels is completely nullified in the end - but the bigger army remains!
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted January 05, 2007 09:39 PM |
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Woow , what a big topic ! I have read some parts, skipped some also ... Very interesting thing about the sylvan damage /w luck & favored enemy, still , there is a low chance ~10% of that happening, but at the same time you will be getting lucky or favored shots almost all the time so that is really cool.
I think things got pretty balanced right now. In the older days I would've pointed out Academy is the weakest, but in my recent experience I defeated my friend (Deleb) in hot seat using Jhora. By abusing Fire Traps, I could almost keep the same killing rate as Deleb, and that was pretty amazing ... Sure my opponent made the mistake of refusing Dark Magic and never getting it after that, and that made things much easier for me!
I really dont know which is the weakest faction right now! I would say the dwarfs, but I never used them in multiplayer battle so I really cant tell... anyway I really don't like the fact that they have to take war machines so they can creep, but still even with war machines they arent impressive, and have difficulties with stronger monsters. Also Sylvan is hard to creep with , and I haven't found a really valid way of creeping with them without problems in the beggining, but after you get the Treants things are getting easier
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KnightDougal
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted January 06, 2007 07:58 PM |
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Dungeon is the weakest!
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 06, 2007 08:05 PM |
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Quote:
Dungeon is the weakest!
Actually, Dungeon is the strongest.
We all agree that it's creatures are overpowered to their lever.
Like the Assasian (with 14 to 1st level).
This why the growth rates are so low.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 06, 2007 08:11 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Dungeon is the weakest!
Actually, Dungeon is the strongest.
We all agree that it's creatures are overpowered to their lever.
Like the Assasian (with 14 to 1st level).
This why the growth rates are so low.
well, I like to consider growth rate as a stat similiar to others. That makes dungeon units pretty average in fact, and that makes assassins very weak.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 06, 2007 08:25 PM |
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If you look at costs, it's pretty much the same as other factions (i mean the costs of ALL the week population, of course).
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 06, 2007 08:57 PM |
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Towerlord, I would say war machines is a pretty weak skill for the fortress...why do they need it to creep?
I usually upgrade skirmishers, buy an ammo cart, and look around for gems. With the skirmishers walkers are not a threat (not that they are to any faction) and with the rune of charge + bears that takes care of ranged threat. There's a pretty high chance of getting rune of charge...
____________
Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 06, 2007 09:00 PM |
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Some guys are just obssesed with First Aid tent... 
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Ma_trix
Adventuring Hero
Carpe Diem
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posted January 06, 2007 10:07 PM |
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IF you take war machines as a creeping weapon for fortess you FORGET about Aid Tent coz your balista needs much support (due to relatively low knowledge and attack) - and this support can be given only by balista + runic machines + triple balista (as it was said it gives you 12 consequentive shots in three cycles (three times 10 goes round atb bar) instead of rodinart 6 in three cycles) so the damage becomes comparable or even higher.
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 06, 2007 10:36 PM |
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I agree that triple ballista is what you go for...but I think you achieve it after most of the creeping is done.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 07, 2007 02:07 AM |
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That's true.But runic machines already helps a lot, even more with luck.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted January 07, 2007 09:31 AM |
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I think Tent+Ballista+Runic Machines is better than Ballista+Runic+Triple Ballista, especially for creeping... Anyway in the final battle the ballista even triple won't be impressive at all.
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Ma_trix
Adventuring Hero
Carpe Diem
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posted January 07, 2007 10:33 AM |
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IMHO war machines isn't very impressive skill if considered in matter of final battle - balista always does sh*tty damage (unless is lead by Deleb), Aid Tent healing is unnoticeable (only removing curses may be nice) and ammo cart... it does nothing more with skill that it does without (nah, 3 attack for your shooters... how strong improvement is it?).
But if War Machines is considered as an early game skill - it helps amazingly! It nullifies any possible looses and allows your hero to deal with much stronger creatures (and it means faster development for him and town, easier access to mines, possibility of rush).
IF War Machines is thought to be a skill useful for final battle it should be "empowered" a bit. I propose some iprovements:
- ammo cart could increase damage of shooters by 5%-10%-15% (overall damage) or by 10%-15%-20%
- balista could be affected by hero's spells (beneficial and opponent's curses) - of course it still would be mechanical so not every would have influence on it
- balista could have attack/defence increased by hero's stats (attack and defence ) and be affected by "archery" skill
- first aid tent could have more shots - yeh, i know that it was discussed but still i think that number of shoots could be increased (IMHO the biggest problem was that f.ex. 5 shoots for expert would be too much for creeping, making it totally free of casualties) my proposal is to increase number of shoots by hero's level divided by some number f.ex. 4 or 5
- all war machines could be affected more by hero's artifacts (mainly i think about initiative boost)
I know it may create another advance for early creeping for "war machine specialists" like Deleb, Havez and Vittorio - but it needs balancing as always
What do you think about it?
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This thread is pages long: 
