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nickkkk
Known Hero
Necro fan since 1988
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posted April 28, 2007 06:46 PM |
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Quote:
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Than how do you explain that with a pit lord I killed an Archangel?
1 one 1. huh?
I guess you haven't heard of vorpal blade.
Exactly my elvin friend, but it seems that other people don't know.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 28, 2007 08:02 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 20:06, 28 Apr 2007.
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True, sometimes you cannot know what the other has in mind. Or hasn't! 
Edit: I also must add that pit lords while good aren't as useful as they seem on paper.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2007 08:46 PM |
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Quote:
It's just because fear attack, summon pitlords, chain shot, 3-headed attack are much bigger threats than some 8 initiative wussies. Pit lords just sit there, hidden somewhere away from battlefield, and do nothing but cast their resistable wuss spells with their sucky wuss spellpower. That means that the best way to use them is to TA them asap into the heart of battle right after mass haste/slow.
For example, it's especially useful against magmas because of the huge pit lords' damage and the fact that 9 initiative magmas can't fly. There is a chance that after TA there is no escape for magmas if they are blocked by ally stacks like priests, bears..
Of course at some point, when pit lords suffered losses, it's better to use spells than to attack.
TA-ing pitlord asap? please think about horned overseer, this unit also has good potential, their total damage are equal to that of familiar, cerberus has the lowest total damage. You can TA-ing pit lord asap if you think that it's better than >> the demon lord casting dark magic and rush the horned overseer to the front while the pit lords gate and cast their spells then finish the rest with TA-ing the pit lords.
Rushing without gating againts dwarf? what will you do againts their resurrection? what will you do if 1/2 of your 7 stacks never have the chance to react because of fortress units + charge rune + thunderclap rune and blackbear rider paw + charge rune + thunderclap rune? inferno has the lowest total hit points, againts fortress that has the highest total hit points, it means that thunderclap and bear paw wil trigger very often, you'll become instant loser if you don't gate as many as possible. Fortress has low damage, your gated stacks will never die quickly, beside to eat enemy retaliation, the gated stacks have very useful role, their role are making fortress most offensive runes malfunction.
As Inferno againts fortres, fear this runes: charge, thunder clap, battle rage, dragon form, ofc resurrection. Unfortunately all of those runes except the resurrection are easily countered by blocking the fortress units path with gated stacks.
Also, gating has very great advantage againts slow faction, especially slow faction that has low damage.
My statement does not take inferno dark magic and dwarf destructive magic into consideration.
To defeat inferno with dwarf is easy if they don't gate, just use rune of charge+thunderclap is enough to make inferno become loser, the only problem is their dark magic.
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Lesij
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2007 09:59 PM |
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Are you sure 2000+ shieldguards can be killed so easily? Even if you have a super 8000 damage implosion, only 666 shieldguards will be killed.
I'm not really sure, but if I killed all the unites, inspite of guradpost, wouldn't be the battle won by me???
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 29, 2007 01:01 AM |
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TA-ing pitlord asap?
Well, it seems you missed "right after mass haste/slow" part 
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please think about horned overseer, this unit also has good potential
Well, to be honest, I thought you were sarcastic about them Anyway, they have 5 speed so they don't really need to be TAd and their damage is realy pathetic compared to pit lords. Generally, it's better to take tier 6 and/or 7 out asap and that's when vorpal sword comes handy..
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Rushing without gating againts dwarf?
Gating vs fortress is obvious and I didn't bother to go in to details about it. Funny how easy is to put words in someone's mouth, isn't it?
Anyway, I meant: TA pit lords, block magmas and GATE. Huge ATB boost from TA will assure that they will act immediately after hero.
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted April 29, 2007 04:03 AM |
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How come the gated creatures disappear when normal creatures are killed but the fortress guardpost shieldguards do not? This allows a hero with advanced runelore to defend a castle with rune of charge rune of ressurection and one single unit.
The attacking force must send enough to kill x shieldguards, while the main hero of the defending castle can have full troops.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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nickkkk
Known Hero
Necro fan since 1988
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posted April 29, 2007 06:13 AM |
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yes it's true what you have said. But why are the Fortress guys so though? With the runes I mean. This is a huge advantage: Resurection, charge, bersekering, speed and initiative, incorporability. I mean c'mon, a army with all these can kill anything, especially bears, good if they are yours, bad if they are against you. OOOOOO, and they have that rune that resembles with Magic mirror.
On my opinion Fortress is not balanced like the other factions. But of course they to have their ++++++.
And it's true about the shieldguards. You simply can't kill them that easily like the other lvl 1 armies. And if the rune preist cast Defflect missile, we are doomed. I experienced it once, I don't what it again.
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nickkkk
Known Hero
Necro fan since 1988
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posted April 29, 2007 06:15 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Are you sure 2000+ shieldguards can be killed so easily? Even if you have a super 8000 damage implosion, only 666 shieldguards will be killed.
I'm not really sure, but if I killed all the unites, inspite of guradpost, wouldn't be the battle won by me???
true it's a bit ENNOYING that defensive structure of the Fortress, that's why you better play with them.
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 29, 2007 08:08 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Are you sure 2000+ shieldguards can be killed so easily? Even if you have a super 8000 damage implosion, only 666 shieldguards will be killed.
I'm not really sure, but if I killed all the unites, inspite of guradpost, wouldn't be the battle won by me???
Er, actually no. that's the hard part. hence, i would like to advocate my campaign- that is, to use Inferno. With Inferno, you can beat fortress easily.
And to the TA posts, I think pit lords should not be TAed. It is a waste. Gate them, cast spells with them, equip your hero with speed artifact and tactics so that they can move further to attack, do whatever you want with them but just don't TA them. That's reserved for horned overseers.
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 29, 2007 08:14 AM |
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Quote:
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It's just because fear attack, summon pitlords, chain shot, 3-headed attack are much bigger threats than some 8 initiative wussies. Pit lords just sit there, hidden somewhere away from battlefield, and do nothing but cast their resistable wuss spells with their sucky wuss spellpower. That means that the best way to use them is to TA them asap into the heart of battle right after mass haste/slow.
For example, it's especially useful against magmas because of the huge pit lords' damage and the fact that 9 initiative magmas can't fly. There is a chance that after TA there is no escape for magmas if they are blocked by ally stacks like priests, bears..
Of course at some point, when pit lords suffered losses, it's better to use spells than to attack.
TA-ing pitlord asap? please think about horned overseer, this unit also has good potential, their total damage are equal to that of familiar, cerberus has the lowest total damage. You can TA-ing pit lord asap if you think that it's better than >> the demon lord casting dark magic and rush the horned overseer to the front while the pit lords gate and cast their spells then finish the rest with TA-ing the pit lords.
Rushing without gating againts dwarf? what will you do againts their resurrection? what will you do if 1/2 of your 7 stacks never have the chance to react because of fortress units + charge rune + thunderclap rune and blackbear rider paw + charge rune + thunderclap rune? inferno has the lowest total hit points, againts fortress that has the highest total hit points, it means that thunderclap and bear paw wil trigger very often, you'll become instant loser if you don't gate as many as possible. Fortress has low damage, your gated stacks will never die quickly, beside to eat enemy retaliation, the gated stacks have very useful role, their role are making fortress most offensive runes malfunction.
As Inferno againts fortres, fear this runes: charge, thunder clap, battle rage, dragon form, ofc resurrection. Unfortunately all of those runes except the resurrection are easily countered by blocking the fortress units path with gated stacks.
Also, gating has very great advantage againts slow faction, especially slow faction that has low damage.
My statement does not take inferno dark magic and dwarf destructive magic into consideration.
To defeat inferno with dwarf is easy if they don't gate, just use rune of charge+thunderclap is enough to make inferno become loser, the only problem is their dark magic.
True and not true. Without gating, Inferno can still beat fortress, just that it will incur higher losses. I really want to see Blackbear riders and thanes start before nightmare and cerebus. the point is, a lot of people here speak of deadly creatures like paladins and thanes and whatever but never consider the fact that they will not get the first strike. Believe me, blackbear riders are likely to be reduced to about 20% of their populations upon being attacked by nightmares. And thanes are next to useless as since some Inferno creatures act much faster, there is no chance to use storm strike.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 29, 2007 01:03 PM |
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Quote:
And to the TA posts, I think pit lords should not be TAed. It is a waste. Gate them, cast spells with them, equip your hero with speed artifact and tactics so that they can move further to attack, do whatever you want with them but just don't TA them. That's reserved for horned overseers.
Tactics = no power of speed(mass hasted army gates faster) - too much sacrifice if you ask me. Speed artifact is REALLY good for inferno - it increases devils/archdevils speed from a bad 7 up to a very good 8.
Anyway, I understand your point that it doesn't really matter what you do against fortress because they will be pwned anyway. Runemages need time to stack runes' effects on their creatures but demonlord's huge attack(*luck) will simply not allow it.
But if we assume that fortress(yes, for some strange theoretical reason) is not pwnable then, using TA on pit lords will be better than TA on overseers. Puny demons won't beat up high tier stacks as nicely as pit lords.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 29, 2007 04:59 PM |
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Quote:
Well, to be honest, I thought you were sarcastic about them Anyway, they have 5 speed so they don't really need to be TAd and their damage is realy pathetic compared to pit lords. Generally, it's better to take tier 6 and/or 7 out asap and that's when vorpal sword comes handy..
I'm not againts TA-ing pitlords asap, it's okay to TA-ing them asap, because it's true that there is a situation where you must TA them asap.
Quote:
Anyway, I meant: TA pit lords, block magmas and GATE. Huge ATB boost from TA will assure that they will act immediately after hero.
That's right. And it is a good choice to bring down or reducing magma numbers, because that's the only fortress units that can't be resurrected, i'm not saying all your stacks go focus this magma, ofc you attack the other dangerous units while the rest of your stacks attack this magma.
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the point is, a lot of people here speak of deadly creatures like paladins and thanes and whatever but never consider the fact that they will not get the first strike. Believe me, blackbear riders are likely to be reduced to about 20% of their populations upon being attacked by nightmares. And thanes are next to useless as since some Inferno creatures act much faster, there is no chance to use storm strike.
I understand your point. Paladin is good, because no matter the situation, they're always good, even if their jousting are wasted by blocking them, but for warlords, this unit will be hard to use their specials againts fast faction like inferno and sylvan as you've said it.
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Runemages need time to stack runes' effects on their creatures but demonlord's huge attack(*luck) will simply not allow it.
Not only that they need time to stack their runes, their stacked runes will be wasted vs fast factions.
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But if we assume that fortress(yes, for some strange theoretical reason) is not pwnable then, using TA on pit lords will be better than TA on overseers. Puny demons won't beat up high tier stacks as nicely as pit lords.
Yup, as i said before, it depend on the situation, TA-ing pit lord asap or horned overseer.
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nickkkk
Known Hero
Necro fan since 1988
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posted April 29, 2007 05:08 PM |
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Elvin wich faction do you prefer?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted April 29, 2007 05:27 PM |
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TA-ing pitlord asap? please think about horned overseer, this unit also has good potential, their total damage are equal to that of familiar, cerberus has the lowest total damage.
Nope
Familiars have like 69 damage/week
Horned Overseers have a little above 55
Cerberi have 70
(I don't remember the exact numbers)
So you are completely wrong, my friend. Refer to the charts for more info ;P
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted April 29, 2007 05:46 PM |
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Maybe its better to T.A horn overseers to do the explosion if inferno hero isn't learning any magic..
Pitlord cast meteor shower or vulnerability for nightmare's bang 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 29, 2007 06:26 PM |
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Quote:
Elvin wich faction do you prefer?
Academy, fortress, sylvan and dungeon mostly, magic way for me!  I cannot comment on the weakest because I would have to take into account the period and map in which that happens. Also some seemingly overpowered factions may lose easier to another which is considered superior.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 29, 2007 08:34 PM |
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Quote:
Familiars have like 69 damage/week
Horned Overseers have a little above 55
Cerberi have 70
interesting 
Why do Horned Overseers such small damage? I recall they had the same damage as familiars and same growth, since the chart is based on growth.
can you please explain how you got that number, thanks
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted April 29, 2007 08:56 PM |
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Quote:
So you are completely wrong
You are completely wrong here
Familiar:
Damage 2-3, growth 16
Horned Overseer:
Damage 1-4, growth 15 (+2 with horde)
It seems they do the same average damage after all
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Ted
Promising
Supreme Hero
Peanut Exterminator
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posted April 29, 2007 09:01 PM |
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still Horned Overseers are exceptionally slow, although, would you think they'd be better if the had unlimited retaliation?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 29, 2007 09:02 PM |
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Quote:
still Horned Overseers are exceptionally slow
but tough
Btw it was only about damage, because TA-ing them would make them fast indeed
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