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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 29, 2006 09:38 AM |
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hey sq79, great screenie there :] Nice damage!
Still, I don't feel convinced. I'm the kind of player who loves early map control paired with little-to-no loses@earlygame. I love heroes who are not dependant upon their creatures to kill whatever they want. Deleb offers me that ability  Sylvan IS bad at it  Besides, I always run low on the wood early with sylvan and I can't do a sh*t, and, as I said, on Peninsula map there isn't much wood around.
Perhaps you know some good way of creeping not to get whacked away by the creeps? I found out that charging with sprites sometimes makes shooting enemies to forget the hunters and kill the sprites.. but, that doesn't happen everytime, and every shot of the neutrals - 2-3 precious hunters killed.. with no tent.. duh..
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 29, 2006 08:14 PM |
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sq79, Sylvan troops can do great damage with some luck. But in rush maps, they will easily get killed by anyone. And I don't think any sylvan player can perform better with a half-decent Sylvan hero than with Nathir or some other good wizard so calling Academy weakest seems a bit unfair (Take Nathir a couple of Master Gremlins and some Golems/Gargoyles you can defeat most none-level 7 units if you use fireball correctly). And those hunters will easily be slaughtered by enemy shooters (if not playing against stupid AI) before they can do any serious damage.
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mike11
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 29, 2006 09:05 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Basically: Sylvan sucks just like Perseve did in Heroes IV.
Nature didn't suck in H4 bro. Sprites for fast movement and no retaliate, plus pain-in-the-ass cheap phoenixes and heroes being able to summon huge amounts of stuff????
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Wez - WoW Darkspear 60 UD Priest - Herb/Alch
Timezone = PST ( EST -3, GMT -8 )
Wez - WoW Archimonde 60 Human Priest
Wez - SWG Bria TKM/Doc/Fencer
Mike11 - HOMMIV TOH Legionaire
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 29, 2006 09:11 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Basically: Sylvan sucks just like Perseve did in Heroes IV.
Nature didn't suck in H4 bro. Sprites for fast movement and no retaliate, plus pain-in-the-ass cheap phoenixes and heroes being able to summon huge amounts of stuff????
OT whatsoever but you are wrong. Sprites are fragile and die easy when fighting against most level 1 creatures. And nature magic was perhaps the weakest magic in the game, those summoning spells diddn't help much in a battle.
The main problem with Perseve was that it had weak creatures compared to the others.
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mike11
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 29, 2006 09:41 PM |
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Edited by mike11 at 21:43, 29 Dec 2006.
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Did you play TOH H4?
Yes sprites died easy, but they were fast and had no retaliation. When played right, they were a strong unit, and they were great for getting your hero around the map fast as well as gathering stuff. If you didn't play much multiplayer, than I can understand you not liking nature, but believe me, Nature was a good faction.
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Wez - WoW Darkspear 60 UD Priest - Herb/Alch
Timezone = PST ( EST -3, GMT -8 )
Wez - WoW Archimonde 60 Human Priest
Wez - SWG Bria TKM/Doc/Fencer
Mike11 - HOMMIV TOH Legionaire
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2006 10:27 PM |
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Edited by sq79 at 22:44, 29 Dec 2006.
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Quote:
hey sq79, great screenie there :] Nice damage!
Still, I don't feel convinced. I'm the kind of player who loves early map control paired with little-to-no loses@earlygame. I love heroes who are not dependant upon their creatures to kill whatever they want. Deleb offers me that ability Sylvan IS bad at it Besides, I always run low on the wood early with sylvan and I can't do a sh*t, and, as I said, on Peninsula map there isn't much wood around.
Perhaps you know some good way of creeping not to get whacked away by the creeps? I found out that charging with sprites sometimes makes shooting enemies to forget the hunters and kill the sprites.. but, that doesn't happen everytime, and every shot of the neutrals - 2-3 precious hunters killed.. with no tent.. duh..
If you noticed... we're talking about faction ..
Not heroes ability 
Deleb will do equally well with any troops. Perhaps if ossir starts with imbue ballista as his skill instead of luck, he will overtake deleb anytime
When i lose against deleb, its more of losing to her fireball ballista rather than her troops or the demon's special ability.
That doesn't mean demon faction is great. However as time grows, the imp grows in numbers and almost steals all of enemy heroes's mana, that is the nice part of the demons faction Dungeon and knight will be lost without mana when the demon heroes wack dark magic on them.
And yes, in peninsula, its not hard take on the 15 unicorn with 25 hunters in week 2 with sylvan Or break to dungeon in day 4,5 unless its hunters, maybe will take day6,7 to break waiting for the druids. Losses are unavoidable, just leave the hunters out of shooter's battle.
But deleb will be able to take on 14 dragons on week 2 already
And only "deleb" is able to lol .
Doesn't show anything really on the demons.
And in a more than 4 weeks game with full troops... deleb's fireball ballista gets more and more useless rather its all on the race's special ability to decide the games. That's when i consider a faction weak or good.
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted December 29, 2006 10:38 PM |
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So this is what I think( 1-the strongest;7-the weakest)
1.Dungeon
2.Haven
3.Sylvan
4.Inferno
5.Fortress
6.Academy
7.Necropolis
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 29, 2006 10:41 PM |
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Quote:
sq79, Sylvan troops can do great damage with some luck. But in rush maps, they will easily get killed by anyone. And I don't think any sylvan player can perform better with a half-decent Sylvan hero than with Nathir or some other good wizard so calling Academy weakest seems a bit unfair (Take Nathir a couple of Master Gremlins and some Golems/Gargoyles you can defeat most none-level 7 units if you use fireball correctly). And those hunters will easily be slaughtered by enemy shooters (if not playing against stupid AI) before they can do any serious damage.
Maybe you should play more multi player games
Obviously you like to choose heroes with good starts. And sylvan never have a good start as academy, so i can understand why. Once u learn how to play sylvan and get the correct skills, they're simply awesome and the best race against them is haven and demons or dwarfs, academy is hopeless case after week 3 because their buildings are so damn hard to build!
One thing about rushing with academy, if u rush them... sylvan can always play catching with the slow elephants lol because they never seem to get logistics offered. So there are many ways to play the game to make it fair
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SS
Known Hero
Strike first, Strike Hard
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posted December 29, 2006 11:07 PM |
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I think the weakest faction is inferno. those creatures have nothing but ugly looking faces. even there most stringest unite devil is bad with wide range in between minimum and maximim damage.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 29, 2006 11:29 PM |
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Lol
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 30, 2006 12:35 PM |
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lmao
sq79, I wouldn't call ballista weak after several weeks - in fact, it still acts like a stack of powerful shooters! It sometimes did more damage than all those succubi mistresses I've accumulated throughout the game. It's a major advantage - inferno lacks shooters, an extra shooter is always welcome ;p
Inferno is a good castle overall, but it sucks vs. necropolis a bit. The enemy can simply cast mark of the necromancer on his skellies, which you NEED to kill fast and regain ridiculous ammounts of mana while casting frenzy&puppet like mad.. which you can't counter effectively with your only cleansing coming from tent with 3 ammo. An advanced necro can really be a pain. Oh, he may even OHKO the tent with the skellies, leaving you at his mercy :X The only hope is in gating, since it will make frenzy less effective, but puppet master still breaks the game. Puppeted archdevils along with mass confusion = you leave the game cuz there is nothing else you can do :X
ah yes, in necro vs. sylvan, if necro gets zoltan and somehow manages to block cleansing (+ guaranteed OHKO on the sprites through legion of skeletons), sylvan player is doomed aswell. ;p Confusion and puppeted trenats = ouch.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 30, 2006 01:03 PM |
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Quote:
lmao
sq79, I wouldn't call ballista weak after several weeks - in fact, it still acts like a stack of powerful shooters! It sometimes did more damage than all those succubi mistresses I've accumulated throughout the game. It's a major advantage - inferno lacks shooters, an extra shooter is always welcome ;p
Inferno is a good castle overall, but it sucks vs. necropolis a bit. The enemy can simply cast mark of the necromancer on his skellies, which you NEED to kill fast and regain ridiculous ammounts of mana while casting frenzy&puppet like mad.. which you can't counter effectively with your only cleansing coming from tent with 3 ammo. An advanced necro can really be a pain. Oh, he may even OHKO the tent with the skellies, leaving you at his mercy :X The only hope is in gating, since it will make frenzy less effective, but puppet master still breaks the game. Puppeted archdevils along with mass confusion = you leave the game cuz there is nothing else you can do :X
ah yes, in necro vs. sylvan, if necro gets zoltan and somehow manages to block cleansing (+ guaranteed OHKO on the sprites through legion of skeletons), sylvan player is doomed aswell. ;p Confusion and puppeted trenats = ouch.
Hehe.. in a big battle of necro versus sylvan... unless necro hero is very lucky with initiative arties, the game is usually over in 1st turn before the hero gets to do anything  This might sound ridiculous.. but that's sylvan. Other than dwarfs, demons and haven, if they can't win in 1-2 turns.. they're doomed
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 30, 2006 01:16 PM |
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hah funny to see how many people differ in judging the towns. For sq79 Sylvan owns all with little to no effort, for me it's the demons who rule here, for TowerLord haven pwns everything, and for 86wyp Academy is the most imba thing in the game
In other words, the game is not as badly balanced as it seems. 
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RectusDominus
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 30, 2006 02:06 PM |
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Doomforge ur gonna need to hire a shrink so he can mentally prepare u in case they are going to nerf deleb in next patches
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted December 30, 2006 02:57 PM |
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Quote:
hah funny to see how many people differ in judging the towns. For sq79 Sylvan owns all with little to no effort, for me it's the demons who rule here, for TowerLord haven pwns everything, and for 86wyp Academy is the most imba thing in the game
In other words, the game is not as badly balanced as it seems.
Hehe maybe it all depends n what kind of maps we play and fight in which week or month. Rush maps and bigger maps surely makes a big diff
GL to you and i hope you join the toh community and play multi player with us
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SS
Known Hero
Strike first, Strike Hard
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posted December 30, 2006 07:21 PM |
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Edited by SS at 19:22, 30 Dec 2006.
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Doomforge ur gonna need to hire a shrink so he can mentally prepare u in case they are going to nerf deleb in next patches
RectusDominus, now don't be offensive, it is okay for people you express there ideas and belives.
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RectusDominus
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 30, 2006 07:51 PM |
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I'm sure he will appreciate the humor of it, as it is intended as a joke, aight 
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Fortress_fan
Disgraceful
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posted December 30, 2006 08:13 PM |
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I say:
1. Haven
Extremely powerful with hordes of peasants upgraded to marksmen (fantastic with Dougal). Only peasants-conscripts are relay weak, the rest of the units are average or good (through the renegades seems to be three times as powerful than the ordinary Haven units.
2. Inferno
Gating is awesome, with Gate Master speciality you can get a 60% larger army. And Deleb is one of the best early game heroes in the game, she can clear up enemy stacks 5 times larger or stronger than her army.
3. Necropolis
After a couple of weeks a Necropolis player will have at least 1K of Skeleton Archers. An awesome boost to the army. Unfourtenaly, Ghosts and Spectres are too expensive and the dragons are too weak for being worth recuting. I think Kaspar is the best necromancer available.
4. Academy
The artificer skill is great, it gives the ability to strengthen the units on their weak points. The units academy gets offered are petty good, only Djinns and Gargoyles seem weak for their level. Just like Deleb, Nathir is great at clearing neutral stacks and he is deficiently one of the best wizards even if he starts with Destructive magic which isn't one of Academy’s main spell schools.
5. Dungeon
The units are strong and perfect for the early game. However they got a petty 'unfair' growth rate and cost which makes the late game a little hard. Their speciality is great if you get the right opponents. Lethos and Vayshan are my favourite heroes.
6. Sylvan
Weak in all its aspects. With some luck, you can do huge damage, but Avenger is generally a petty useless skill as Hunters and Druids will generally get before they can do any serious damage. No Sylvan unit is much above average, so other factions will always have stronger units at their disposal. And all Rangers have bad special abilities.
I don’t have HoF so I cant rate Fortress, although they seems very defensive (just like the "true" Fotress from Heroes III with über Tazar).
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted December 31, 2006 12:45 AM |
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In response to the last post Fortress is very strong on a resource rich map. With no resource worries they are awesome and the runes provide additional fun on top of the normal faction abilities and unit abilities. I wouldn't want to play them on a small map, in multi. The guard post helps but I see them as a large map conquerer. Thoughts?
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 31, 2006 01:36 AM |
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In a smaller map the other factions will struggle and still build late tier 6.For dwarves it is worse The idea is simple:Flag a crystal and/or sulfur mine and you CAN be supreme later on.Dwarves can build up to tier 4 maybe 5 easily and it's also generally easy to upg their key units.However they depend on luck, so soldier's luck is a must early to avoid casualties.Starting hero is also crucial as each requires a different town building tree at least for week 1.To utilize runes you'll probably have to skip brawlers because they require 10 mercury,the ammount you start with at hard and even which rune you get determines your overall strategy and strength.Good thing is fortress has good heroes for short games:Ingvar,Svea,Ebba,Karli.Getting warmachines early is a boon and one easily accessible.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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