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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted November 16, 2009 07:08 AM |
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Ok. Here goes. Though I will probably regret it, here is my take on things.
No, the government is not going to give real guns that fire live ammunition to children. The junior military thing is somewhat for 'troubled' youths. Possible Street Gang members, those heading for lifes of crime, etc. Like Martial Arts, it teaches Discipline, gives Structure, and keeps them physically active. So it also cuts down on possibility for Obesity and Diabetes.
They will not ever fight in a war at that age, or even get anywhere near combat. For all purposes it might as well be Math camp, or Music Camp, or ...
It can and has turn a lot of childrens life around, for the better.
Should they decide to join the official army, they often go in at an advanced rank..and make more money. So their job prospects are generally better.
At least unlike some countries I won't mention, we don't strap bombs to our children and send them out to blow themselves and others up.
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Message received.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 16, 2009 08:16 AM |
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Quote:
These kids dont get to be children. Instead, they get forced into barbaric murdering beasts.
btw, here are like +50 pictures. Evidence.
Them's fighting words. Marines are not murderers. Marines are defenders of freedom. Thank God for our brave and selfless soldiers who stand up to defend our freedoms.
The kids who go through the program I am sure are less likely to commit crimes and more likely to be good citizens.
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Revelation
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted November 16, 2009 04:36 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
These kids dont get to be children. Instead, they get forced into barbaric murdering beasts.
btw, here are like +50 pictures. Evidence.
Them's fighting words. Marines are not murderers. Marines are defenders of freedom. Thank God for our brave and selfless soldiers who stand up to defend our freedoms.
The kids who go through the program I am sure are less likely to commit crimes and more likely to be good citizens.
You both are idiots.
I mean, in my humble opinion you both represent opinions that show you are more out of touch with reality than I am.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 16, 2009 04:37 PM |
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Oh Snap!
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted November 16, 2009 05:32 PM |
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Quote:
Them's fighting words. Marines are not murderers. Marines are defenders of freedom. Thank God for our brave and selfless soldiers who stand up to defend our freedoms.
The kids who go through the program I am sure are less likely to commit crimes and more likely to be good citizens.
Some are, some are not:
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11 bodies pulled from former Marine and alleged serial killer's home
Former Marine pleads not guilty to raping, killing college student
Former Marine admits abducting girl, 12
Former Marine sentenced to life in prison for arranging murder in Calif. drug deal dispute
Former Marine found guilty of attacking wife
Former Marine arrested in road rage incident
I understand those who go back to study literature are few and far between.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 16, 2009 05:52 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 17:56, 16 Nov 2009.
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this is disgusting.
Child soldiers in africa are bad enough, as they are incredibly dangerous. they don't have a childhood, but they don't have the conscience of experience that an adult has, so everything is really just a game, no matter how many people die.
and this is places like sudan, darfur, Democratic republic of congo, you know, War-torn anarchy states that are so bad off that your considered a veteran and an old coot at 20. to have it in the states is both mindboggling and deeply, deeply worrying!
arguements against this might say "oh, its only pretend" or "oh, they'll be trained and able to make moral decisions." no, a child soldier is a child solider, the very concept alone offends me. kids need a childhood, otherwise they can't survive if all they know is war.
my parents deal with various companies, and one of them deals with ex-military guys from various army divisions. these are people going in at management level, people who should have ideas and want to discuss, but all they know is to follow orders, so to discuss a business plan is extremely difficult. and these are guys who go in at their 20's, and still act like the oppinion part of their mind has been wiped out. imagine what it will do to a 8 year old child!
Similarly, my cousin works at a bar with these guys in the army, and after they returned from their deployment in iraq, a few of their friends was killed by a roadside ambush. their eyes were dead, there was no emotion, most of them seemed to have suffered shell-shock. my cousin remembered one guy who didn't notice that he had cut his hand on some broken glass until someone mentioned it. these guys are 28, and have spent about 4 years in the military. imagine what it would do to an 8 year old child!
No matter what your oppinion on this is, I still hold by the fact that it's wrong! i don't care if it's honourary, or it's just for a day, a child soldier is still a child soldier, and war is hell, no matter how you look at it. the only person it benefits are war-profiteers and terrorists recruiters. it doesn't benefit anyone else, and certainly, doesn't benefits this 8 year old child. thankyou for having me shout at you.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 06:01 PM |
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These aren't child soldiers by any stretch of the imagination.
Moreover, say what you will, but, in my experience, all other things being equal, a person who served in the military is generally more competent, tolerable, and agreeable than one who hasn't.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 16, 2009 06:03 PM |
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Moreover, say what you will, but, in my experience, all other things being equal, a person who served in the military is generally more competent, tolerable, and agreeable than one who hasn't.
Like that bully friend of yours you were talking about?
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 06:03 PM |
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Well, it's not.
The key element of soldiery isn't learning to shoot people. The key element is learning discipline and obedience to the higher rank. If you learn to obey the commands of someone superior in rank without a question, you ARE drilled to be a soldier - after all being a soldier isn't being a killing machine, but an instrument.
No matter whether their shooting practise will make only a very small part of their life, it's inevitable that schools with a lilitary background DO lay the groundwork for this.
For simplity's sake I found this in wiki - I'm sure it's right:
Role and purpose of the Young Marines is:
Quote:
To promote the mental, moral, and physical development of its members
To instill in its members the ideals of honesty, fairness, courage, respect, loyalty, dependability, attention to duty, love of God, and fidelity to the United States and its institutions
To stimulate an interest in, and respect for academic achievement and the history and traditions of the United States and the U.S. Marine Corps
To promote the physical fitness through the conduct of physical activities, including athletic events and close order drill
To advocate a healthy drug free lifestyle by continual drug prevention education programs
Can receive a higher initial pay grade upon enlistment in the USMC
The creed that every Young Marine lives by is:
Obey my parents and all others in charge of me whether young or old.
Keep myself neat at all times without other people telling me to.
Keep myself clean in mind by attending the church of my faith.
Keep my mind alert to learn in school, at home, or at play.
Remember that having self-discipline will enable me to control my body and mind in case of an emergency.
The obligation in which they stand by is: "From this day forward, I sincerely promise to set an example for all youth to follow. I shall never do anything to bring disgrace or dishonor upon my God, my country, its flag, my parents, myself or the Young Marines. These I will honor and respect in a manner that will reflect credit upon them and myself. Semper Fidelis."
You know, in Germany we had those para-military youth-organizations as well. Children are very pliable...
I don't think that children should be drilled in any military sense.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 16, 2009 06:03 PM |
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Quote:
Ask Geny.
*grumbles something incoherent*
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 06:06 PM |
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Quote:
Like that bully friend of yours you were talking about?
Who?
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 16, 2009 06:07 PM |
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Who?
From the love thread, the religious dude who was obsessed with a certain girl.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted November 16, 2009 06:31 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 18:35, 16 Nov 2009.
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Moreover, say what you will, but, in my experience, all other things being equal, a person who served in the military is generally more competent, tolerable, and agreeable than one who hasn't.
i'm not saying there aren't people who've had good experience with the miliatry. the military chaps my cousin knew seemed to be alright guys before the event happened.
but when the experience does turn sour, Oh boy does it turn sour. lives have been wrecked by what happens on the battlefield, so if that happens, everyone is hurt.
more importantly, if these kids are taught that the military is a great thing and that to fight and die for you country is the only thing you want to acheive...what happens if that kid, now an adult, is discharged.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 16, 2009 06:48 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 18:49, 16 Nov 2009.
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You both are idiots.
I mean, in my humble opinion you both represent opinions that show you are more out of touch with reality than I am.
Spoken like a true idiot.
Who exactly do you thinks defends a nation? The military. Brave soldiers fight for the freedom that allows you to ignorantly call other people idiots just because they don't agree with you.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 06:50 PM |
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Quote:
From the love thread, the religious dude who was obsessed with a certain girl.
I said, "all other things being equal". Which is hardly the case with him. He's so messed up even the army couldn't fix him. 
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 16, 2009 07:00 PM |
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Brave soldiers Instruments fight for the freedom that allows you to ignorantly call other people idiots just because they don't agree with you.
fix'd
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted November 16, 2009 07:19 PM |
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Just my 2 cents on this sorry if it's a bit far fetched.
Im coming up to 30 years old now so i've started to think seriously about making a family and eventually a child especially since it seems i've found the right person at last.
In any case..back on topic..youngsters these days are subjected to such a violent media bombardment and to so many temptations on the street...dont you think?
Everyone loves bloody shooters games..everyone loves violent movies, society has evolved like this..look at the children action figures and how they evolved in the last 50 years
50 years ago super heroes looked like normal persons..now they are all rugged body builders armed to the teeth.
I remember my youth and the temptations i had on the streets..i remember smoking when i was 9 in a basement and stealing a bottle of wine from my father when i was 12..
Still, at least in the short run, cigarettes and alchool aren't as dangerous as drugs and guns these days.
I see some of the people involved in this debate, dont really understand the meaning of the word " military training"
You cannot compare marine training to what these kids do..from my point of view this is more similar to what Scouts do..and i dont see anyone hating on them.
IMO teaching a young child how to read a map, make a fire,find his way using a compass or only the sun/stars, teaching him how basic survival techniques, and also some notions about self defense seems to be a better influence than to show him how to roll his first joint.
I've been in the military since i was 14 myself..and i think i'm sane enough, i haven't killed anyone, i haven't been mentally abused nor did i feel i lost my childhood..on the contrary..my years in the Military College from 14 to 18 were maybe my best years so far..and the friendships i started there still last.I belive I owe a good part of who I am today to the education i got in those years.
Just to sum it up i think the manner in which this thread was created, the "OMG USA is training killers from the age of 8 FTF!!!!" attitude is just wrong.
Maybe u should stop playing WoW for a day, go outside and see if you can still run a mile or do 1 chin up...then talk about wasting one's youth.
Out
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted November 16, 2009 07:29 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
You both are idiots.
I mean, in my humble opinion you both represent opinions that show you are more out of touch with reality than I am.
Spoken like a true idiot.
Who exactly do you thinks defends a nation? The military. Brave soldiers fight for the freedom that allows you to ignorantly call other people idiots just because they don't agree with you.
I have always been free to say this. Killing has never made it somehow more possible to say it.
Oh, well...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 08:04 PM |
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Well.
Let me repeat the fact that soldiering isn't about killing people. It's about obeying orders - so that IF a senior gives an order, it's followed; unthinkingly. Instrumentalization of people.
Of course, disciplining wayward 19-year-olds involves a lot more "spirit-breaking" than with 8 or 10-year-olds,
Which is what this is all about. It's not about brainwashing for killing, it's brain-washing for OBEYING.
However: it's no forced entry organization. It's the PARENTS who put their children there, right? So blame the parents, if you want to blame someone.
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mvassilev
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 16, 2009 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
You cannot compare marine training to what these kids do..from my point of view this is more similar to what Scouts do..and i dont see anyone hating on them.
IMO teaching a young child how to read a map, make a fire,find his way using a compass or only the sun/stars, teaching him how basic survival techniques, and also some notions about self defense seems to be a better influence than to show him how to roll his first joint.
Quote:
So blame the parents, if you want to blame someone.
And these two quotes are really all there is to say about the topic.
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Eccentric Opinion
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