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Binabik
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posted November 21, 2009 04:16 AM |
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That's not what he said. He said that poor people in the US are screwed over because the healthcare and educations costs money and they get no unemployment funds. And none of that is true. His statement about the so-called "American dream" isn't true either.
Bottom line is that he seems to believe just about anything he hears.
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Celfious
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posted November 21, 2009 04:23 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 04:38, 21 Nov 2009.
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I dont follow the healthcare case by case, in this country or others. I get what i need, so far full coverage
Education, is also not so much related to me because I dont agree with having to take chemistry to become someone who needs a literature or psychology degree. It puts more bills on students, of course raising the educational costs, etc etc, but half of the things i studied have nothing to do with my goals in life, which are actually quite dynamic enough to have some flexibility, yet with this crisis I have to pay more, and spend more time, learning nonapplicable things?
I went for a couple of years to college but when I go back this next semester or when I go to this other country, I am not going for a degree. (if i dont on my own crack the books and get my own experience I will utilize applicable courses however, that is something i have to look into over and figure out exactly what I need to do)
I could actually, really stand around here barking what I think would help buts pointless.. i dont know the schematics and what not, I dont look around at things that dont apply or interest me. I can say the education system here has more of a challenge to catch up. i dont know why exactly, but i cant ever say it is just one thing. The efforts are distributed in a variaety of systems. You have the hoods with guns in the school, and you have the rich yale material yuppies in 9th grade going to starbucks for a cold coffee at lunch time. Of course they have 25,000 this year to upgrade some extra programs when the ... whatever.. whatever
I am not here saying we are perfect but do you see me pointing my fingers at a country saying some stupid idea about whose better whose worse? Shove my fingers down anyones throat saying hitler would be a hero after i say their country is inferior?
Truth is, if you cant see there is a shade of grey in almost all situations and opinions, etc etc, you would see some people actually think genocide was a good idea.. But I know if I had some of the same things inside of my mind and spirit after some crazy "superior" racist nut case paved the way to a different world by slaughter of innocence, I would NOT think he was a god.
how can you come in here and support hatred and say who is superior and inferior, then actually think you can mention a genocidal nutcase in some kind of healthy intellectual level ?
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Celfious
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posted November 21, 2009 05:17 PM |
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lastly i am sorry to highjack thread, I dont think thread started has superiority complex and in somewhat of a regretted rage I forgot to consider the threadmaker
i am sorry
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TheDeath
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posted November 21, 2009 06:24 PM |
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@TA: Quote:
I bet murderers will find other ways to kill. Nuclear Weapons do not create the intent to hurt people. They are a tool to get the job done.
Besides, if you outlaw nukes, only outlaws have nukes 
Not sure what you're saying but you idealizers should wake up to reality some day and look at facts. There hasn't been a direct war between superpowers that can deliver nukes everywhere ever since they had nukes. I'd say they are one hell of a deterrent.
Quote:
Those who find nothing wrong with this picture obviously live in a very different reality to me.
Right. Better for them to do nothing and totally unproductive "skills", like going in bars and drinking.
@JollyJoker: Quote:
Yes, that's what I said: it's obviously so much more enjoyable to have fun with an assault rifle than with sex, and you will excuse me if that's not immediately obvious for an intellectual and emotional cripple like me who simply lacks the capacity to imagine that it's so much healthier for young kids (well, I suppose it's mostly/exclusively boys) to concentrate on the fun of toying around with a dependable, nicely oiled, well-smelling, steely combat auto than with what I cannot even name properly because it's considered not good for children and youths.
I never thought I would say this but you ARE twisted in your thoughts. Especially since you want to waste children's training (in anything might I add, not guns, but anything).
Comparing sex to guns (teaching) is disgraceful, there's nothing productive about the former, nothing that they can improve their skills while they are still kids, nothing that you can "master" at and making it easier when you are grown up. Even shooting games (video games), for instance, require a good eye-hand coordination and increases your reflex vision especially when you are a kid, making them much healthier and more trained in that aspect (who wouldn't want to improve oneself, especially when growing up, which is ESSENTIAL)? Now while I don't agree with brainwashing, a marine camp may certainly make them more fit for dealing with such real-life coordination, and improve physical fitness more than a video game, that's for sure.
Sex teaching, by comparison, is totally worthless, pointless, idiotic and barbaric.
Having a skill, even if it can be used for killing, is better than just learning about "having pleasure" that will not grow you up better in any reasonable way, or in fact, ANY WAY AT ALL.
End of story/ridiculous analogy.
@Binabik:Quote:
Oh, and for the record....
Speaking of personal experience. Sure guns have a dark side. But for me, and for those I've loved, alcohol has a far darker side and can be far more destructive.
Yes yes yes, indeed 
Alcohol, coincidentally, is on the same worthless category.
If anything, alcohol should be banned far before guns.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 21, 2009 06:42 PM |
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Death, you can't read properly, and in my opinion you are just sick.
End of story, indeed.
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TheDeath
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posted November 21, 2009 06:44 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:45, 21 Nov 2009.
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Quote:
Death, you can't read properly, and in my opinion you are just sick.
End of story, indeed.
Because I was the only one who saw huge disproportionality in your "analogy", yeah. Everyone else perfectly agrees with it.
Also I'm getting tired of your "useless" childish responses, which lead to nowhere and you know it. If you don't want to debate properly, DON'T POST.
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Celfious
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posted November 21, 2009 07:02 PM |
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jolly joker i don't know really why you use an example as a school of sex for minors (not a class) to shine some darkness on something about self development, defense, and disciplinary training.
It is very easy to think you are saying for fornication not only education to occur with minors which I feel for right reasons was disgraced long ago
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JollyJoker
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posted November 21, 2009 07:08 PM |
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I've told you a couple of time what I'm tired of.
You are not able to debate properly, since you don't address the points actually made but the points you'd like to have been made so that you can respond to them the way you like.
Note that the point STILL is, that IF people justify the marine school saying that it can't be wrong to learn responsible use of actually forbidden stuff early, then this would be true for everything you can charecterize that way - but strangely enough only weapon/soldiering is handled that way which is telling.
That was the point which is not what you address.
YOU just bang ahead and vent your sexophobia, no matter what has been said.
So just learn proper reading and proper responding to posts actually made before talking with grown-ups.
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Celfious
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posted November 21, 2009 07:36 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 19:41, 21 Nov 2009.
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Ill forget you mention what you seem to condone then
I dont think I 100% defend or 100% think very much at all that is not entirely definitive beyond shades of grey. The young marines training, is not beyond shades of grey. When I mention spartans, and many other past cultures, it does not justify but it is considerable with certain ways to look at this argument.
There are pros and cons however I dont think these kids are enlisting for any active service time. I think they will have more knowledge whether or not they want to join. If they decide to they will be more probably to have distinguished service. Marines are human beings. I dont agree that humans must do things they disagree with due to an enlistment under powers that have a lot of control over the fate of countries and the world itself.
How can you say the kids are brainwashed or traumatized, or unwilling? how can I say they are not? I have not done research into the training curriculum, have you? I dont think they have "hell week", I dont think they are being put through unhealthy situations, earning blood stripes, going through top secret training. I think it is more likely they are faced with challenges that equip them with courage and power to face that which is real in every humans lives. If it is with a gun in there hand with this trainnig you have a problem with, i agree your perspective is valid, however I cant say i feel you have researched enough to make callas accusations.
I dont think they march like in the movie with guns talking kill kill kill. I doubt they are being persuaded to hate anything but lack of freedom replaced by opression. Do i agree with each thing of my own government? No, not no... But Hell No I dont.
It is presumptuous to think modern military disciplinary training for children could be classified anything like combat training in the same ways of adults and children in previous ages.
if all you can do is point at a gun and assume you know their educational program, then I would agree it is senseless for us to discuss anything.
I think you came at me with the sex comparison in response to what I have said to Xerox.. Xerox, tends to dictate what is morally ethical, who is superior and who is inferior, in such a way to insult others. i dislike this however it is not because his prime target is where I live but the kid apparently gives into perspectives of hatred to such a degree that I doubt he would accept a peer or equal as anything but inferior based on his accent, back ground, origin, parents, etc..
Anything i have said to Xerox yall feel free to disreguard now. If he wants to think badly of someone he meets someday just because they are from another region, so be it.
Anyways, I don't conduct research, i don't have much faith in governments here or most other places. I have enough faith in the practiced standards however to admittedly go on the edge to say I disagree with your ideas that these kids are being brainwashed into mindless killers.
Please correct me if i am wrong but i do not concede to opinions or perspectives even if they have validity (as more than one perspective in millions of situations have validicity). And I will not concede to biased representations of facts constructed to show only one side of the truth. This generally rallies the closed minded by reinforcing their feelings and opinions, they are closed minded because they take a side and never even consider what they are so against.
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JollyJoker
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posted November 21, 2009 08:10 PM |
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I haven't got the slightest idea what the hell you are talking about. Just to help you on your way I'll quote the first post for this issue I made:
Quote:
You know what really makes me wonder when I read all this bull about how great it is to teach children responsible use of firearms which is so much better than they finding out for themselves - wouldn't that be true for everything else as well then? Sex. most notably? Drugs (at least the stuff that is allowed). Driving. You name it.
Now try as I might, I don't find schools where your parents can send you as an 8-year-old, where you learn everything about sex apart from the normal classes - all strictly responsibly, of course.
Strange somehow. I can imagine that those kids and youths would have fun as well, and somehow it escapes me why learning all about firearms and soldiering is such a good thing while learning about sex and love isn't.
Ok, I edit this. I'm going to phrase this so that everyone has something to yell about.
Learning to kill is fine, learning to snow is indecent and pervert.
Note that it is completely ok to use every word in connection with killing, but not in connection with sex. The logical conclusion is that snowing is much more indecent than killing, murdering, maiming, torturing, mistreating, raping... which is justīsick.
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Azagal
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posted November 21, 2009 08:33 PM |
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Quote:
Sex teaching, by comparison, is totally worthless, pointless, idiotic and barbaric
What do you mean by "Sex teaching"? You can't possibly be talking about sexual education, can you?
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TheDeath
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posted November 21, 2009 10:18 PM |
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Quote:
I've told you a couple of time what I'm tired of.
You are not able to debate properly, since you don't address the points actually made but the points you'd like to have been made so that you can respond to them the way you like.
Note that the point STILL is, that IF people justify the marine school saying that it can't be wrong to learn responsible use of actually forbidden stuff early, then this would be true for everything you can charecterize that way - but strangely enough only weapon/soldiering is handled that way which is telling.
That was the point which is not what you address.
No, my point is that people coming out of military camps at least HAVE SOME SKILLS IN COMPARISON TO THE WORTHLESS "YOUNG LOVERS" SCHOOL.
I "justified" the marine school IN MY OWN WAY, and outlined why "young lovers" is idiotic. Not everything has to use your reasoning, no wonder you're so close minded, because you can see only one way from the marine camp: criminals. If I were to play your childish game, I could say that I see one way also from the young lovers: rapists.
But I'm not going down to that level.
POINT: Activities that have side-effects and improve one's skills (whether conscious or subconscious) are NEVER worthless. "Young lovers", in comparison, is.
Quote:
YOU just bang ahead and vent your sexophobia, no matter what has been said.
Yeah, like 2 pages back started by you when I wasn't even online yesterday.
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mvassilev
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posted November 21, 2009 10:26 PM |
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Death, I both agree and disagree. You're right about Young Marines, but wrong about Sex Ed. If the kids know to use protection and not get STDs, that's useful too.
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TheDeath
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posted November 21, 2009 10:35 PM |
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Quote:
Death, I both agree and disagree. You're right about Young Marines, but wrong about Sex Ed. If the kids know to use protection and not get STDs, that's useful too.
An entire special school for something that can be said in 15 minutes, and it's not even a skill but a simple informing? I mean no sex = no STDs. Otherwise you can look this **** up on the net in a few seconds and read it in a matter of minutes.
Proves how degenerate must be out there, STDs aren't even common here. Except for some biology project about the virus (which has nothing whatsoever to do with sex ed.). And no, it's not because of "young lovers" schools, more like the opposite. 
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mvassilev
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posted November 21, 2009 10:38 PM |
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Well, yeah, then I agree. Sex ed can be covered quite quickly, although it shouldn't be abstinence-only - kids are going to have sex anyway, so we might as well tell them how to avoid STDs and getting pregnant.
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TheDeath
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posted November 21, 2009 10:42 PM |
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Quote:
kids are going to have sex anyway
Then they should be able to inform themselves if they take such actions. I mean it's not like they follow school procedures by having sex anyway, so "informing themselves" isn't that far-fetched, they're already making the decisions themselves...
Take alcohol which can have more serious outcomes, for instance. Most make their own choices about it, and totally ignore the doc anyway. I mean, it's not like people who smoke don't KNOW that it's bad for their health, they just don't care.
And it could be a good thing too: if they're so stupid only a serious problem in life later (I hope 'repairable') will make them change their minds.
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mvassilev
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posted November 21, 2009 10:47 PM |
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Quote:
I mean it's not like they follow school procedures by having sex anyway, so "informing themselves" isn't that far-fetched, they're already making the decisions themselves...
Ideally, they would, but many of them don't. Remember, the ones likely to have sex early are also the ones least likely to do things rationally and properly.
Quote:
it's not like people who smoke don't KNOW that it's bad for their health, they just don't care.
Or they're addicted, which is much more common.
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Celfious
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posted November 22, 2009 01:30 AM |
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Quote:
The logical conclusion is that snowing is much more indecent than killing, murdering, maiming, torturing, mistreating, raping... which is justīsick.
ummm ok you see only one small aspect of being a soldier. You think that is all they rely on some mentality for murder, then you would not last.
These kids do NOT LEARN "killing, murdering, maiming, torturing, mistreating, raping"
to any degree that is not substantially outweighed by many positive things. I assure you if these kids are being brain washed I will apologize but I am not adhering to your inability to make a point beyond some assumtion based on a picture of a gun and a child.
I see where people can come from but when they FAIL to see the entire picture and only focus on a biased opinions presentation....
you fail to admit you are so presumptuous you fail to see things from the whole picture, you fail
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Celfious
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posted November 22, 2009 01:36 AM |
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the above thing I put in quote signifies jolly joker, you are saying somehow that child fornication before the arousal of natural interest is more healthy than what you are ONLY capable to see from one perspective, .... brain washing mindless children killers..
Thats a pretty bad fail, you should stop defending pedophiles now and think of some other comparison. thats all i say you should do. But, I encourage you to have a look from more places than some biased corner refusing to even look at other perspectives. .
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TheDeath
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posted November 22, 2009 02:31 AM |
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Quote:
Ideally, they would, but many of them don't. Remember, the ones likely to have sex early are also the ones least likely to do things rationally and properly.
No education or doctors are gonna change those irrational ones. Unless you brainwash or punish them, of course.Quote:
Or they're addicted, which is much more common.
I had numerous mates in high school who BEGAN smoking in the senior year. I doubt that they did not know of the effects...
And Celfious I thought that was already established (about the Young Marines) but thanks for clarifying it again.
Furthermore, being a soldier or "assassin" (because murder was brought up) requires certain skills, even though you may disagree with them. Consider this: one alternative to stop all kids from learning any potentially skills you disagree with is to lock them up. They won't learn any skills that way. Let's see how "developed" they will be.
I'll say this again: compared to the "young lovers" school, at least kids 'graduating' from the "young marines" school won't be brain-dead.
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