|
|
pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
|
posted November 25, 2009 12:41 AM |
|
|
Actually you can copy the songs but you need to use a special program.
I think downloads & artists go hand in hand, they earn lots of money and even if they didnt...they just earn lots of money performing. Who cares about the music industry? Music downloading is against bad artists only, if u can perform live and loud then people will go.
Perhaps downloads are not something to fight against but uploads may be, think about it...if no one uploaded the "illegal" data then there wouldnt exist any illegal download. This is like punishing drugs consumers but doing nothing against dealers, its !@#$#%'^%&.
People will come Ray, yeah just like in Field of Dreams.
BTW without downloads some people  wouldnt have homm5 in a non crush edition.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 12:48 AM |
|
|
Quote:
You never stole in that situation. But from then your friend is illegally owning a labor product thus he is the thief. You can do whatever you want with something you own.
What do you mean he "owns a labor product illegally"? What is a "labor product", I thought there were either products or services. Confusing terms aren't interesting. And they (the producers) still have their labor btw.
Quote:
@To all: the day (IF...) when you will work and produce ideas, artworks, anything intellectual as principal JOB, you will get pissed if someone owns it without paying not because you did not get any money for it, but more from being tortured by the idea that YOUR hard and long work is considered as free, thus worth nothing, zero, nada. This is enough to bring down your creativity.
LOL that sounds so wicked, the free=poor value I mean.  I don't know about others but "Pirates" certainly don't think that way, else they wouldn't be pirating (if it had no value obviously).
Oh and using that logic (not piracy, but free=bad) the Linux guys must be disappointed that people think Linux has no value? Luckily for them people do think it has value, because people know better than money=quality.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 01:37 AM |
|
Edited by baklava at 01:38, 25 Nov 2009.
|
Downloading games -> harming the video-game industry -> preventing them from making more -> working to shelter future children from "violent video-game influences" -> investing into a happier society
^^
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 01:39 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
It doesn't matter if it's theft or not. It discourages productivity. If artists don't get paid, then they'll stop being artists, and you won't have music to download. It's that simple.
Theory-crafting vs reality
If enough people did it, then next time they won't make it in the first place.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 01:44 AM |
|
|
LOL bak 
Quote:
If enough people did it, then next time they won't make it in the first place.
Again, theory-crafting. And Linux is made too, and that really is free (unlike piracy).
I also find it hypocritical that the term is copyright, when it's supposed to strip away people's abilities to copy it, how can it be a "right"?
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 01:54 AM |
|
|
The Death, I don't know what job you are doing, but it is certainly not involved in producing ideas and live from. People download movies/music/games to have fun and spend time, not to live from. So in their mind those kind of things have no value other than entertainment and they think possible to avoid pay for.
While from the artist point of view, it is a hard labor, as creating good quality entertainment is not at anyone hands and it requires long years of practice and special talent.
Now back to my first statement which was in no way insulting but informative: let's say your job is to create computers. So you create 1000 models and start selling them. By "god ways" people learn to clone those computers so the first one is cloned by the first buyer and shared ad aeternam with all humanity. No one buys a second model from you. Now, what you do? Continue your work or give up?
It is easy to talk about piracy and support it when you don't work in artistic branch. But in that case all arguments are wrong as have no clue about what means and how artists live from. I am not speaking about big companies incomes from artistic work. I am speaking about those artists themselves who see every day John and Joe mocking on their talent because their work is available for nothing and is called "sharing". It is stealing.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 01:55 AM |
|
|
Also you failed to consider the opposite, when copyright actually harms works and creativity (if you say that creativity is possible without any influence from stuff, then please lock up a kid and see how 'creative' he is).
Like what happens in ghost works.
By the way this link details the process much better:
http://questioncopyright.org/promise
It's pretty long, I admit, but I have to go now so I thought I should link it. There's hardly much stuff I can add to that. So you can take it, more or less, by what I mean when you read it. (it's not exactly my opinion but pretty close)
Happy long reading
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 01:58 AM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 01:59, 25 Nov 2009.
|
Quote:
While from the artist point of view, it is a hard labor, as creating good quality entertainment is not at anyone hands and it requires long years of practice and special talent.
There a lot more software "developers" out there than hardware engineers, for no other reason than because it's much simpler, requires far less investment, and has a much higher ROI since the prices are more or less the same, or even more. This also not even taking in account the fact that in software world, revenue equals profit, while in hardware it can be as much as 50% of the whole cost...
I have worked on and contributed to open source projects myself. Yes I didn't sell anything, because that model sucks. (see my previous post for a lengthy explanation in the link)
Quote:
Now back to my first statement which was in no way insulting but informative: let's say your job is to create computers. So you create 1000 models and start selling them. By "god ways" people learn to clone those computers so the first one is cloned by the first buyer and shared ad aeternam with all humanity. No one buys a second model from you. Now, what you do? Continue your work or give up?
I should have chosen a different model in the first place.
And where did you get the idea that I said it was insulting? 
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:02 AM |
|
|
Quote:
nd Linux is made too, and that really is free (unlike piracy).
Yes, but is it good? And would it be that popular if not for Windows?
I thought not.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:05 AM |
|
|
You did not answer. What you do if at every model you create, people find a way to share the first one, so you never sell a second? You had in mind to improve that model, had a lot of creative ideas, but your right to own those ideas is down to dust once everyone who got the model for free ignore you as real owner and creator.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:10 AM |
|
|
@mvass: what do you mean, if not for Windows? You mean that without Windows people wouldn't have wanted to make Linux? In a sense, you're right. After all, if there was a semi-free or free OS available, people wouldn't want to make Linux (why bother?). Likewise, if mp3 was free people probably wouldn't want to make ogg (well that's not true, they still would, since it's better but much easier to "improve" it if it was free instead of starting from scratch...).
Quote:
You did not answer. What you do if at every model you create, people find a way to share the first one, so you never sell a second? You had in mind to improve that model, had a lot of creative ideas, but your right to own those ideas is down to dust once everyone who got the model for free ignore you as real owner and creator.
Because a model has to account for one-time production and infinite supply afterwards, not for one-time production and multiple sellings. The link I posted looks at some models, not good yet -- but copyright was pretty "weird" when it was suggested as well. Such is life -- people are used to something and don't trust alternatives. That's why we have so much crap mainstream music, or games, because they are 'afraid' to make something else (b/c of the system and profits  ).
Quote:
It is easy to talk about piracy and support it when you don't work in artistic branch. But in that case all arguments are wrong as have no clue about what means and how artists live from. I am not speaking about big companies incomes from artistic work. I am speaking about those artists themselves who see every day John and Joe mocking on their talent because their work is available for nothing and is called "sharing".
Yes it's sharing.Quote:
It is stealing.
Stealing what? His work? He has it, probably in an even better quality, after all that's where it came from originally.
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:14 AM |
|
|
Owning a house and eating requires money. Money comes from work. Work means hours, days, years. Sharing ones work for free with friends/strangers means you really don't care about the author life conditions, thus don't care about the quality of his work, as both are going together. Hope this answered to your question.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:21 AM |
|
|
You wont overcome these two salamandre, i hope business goes well for you.
will this discussion make u quit sharing maps?hope not
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:24 AM |
|
|
|
pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:26 AM |
|
|
Thats what i meant, lets rephrase it= hope ur ideas are doing well!
It must be cool that independence of yours...envy in a smiley face
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:29 AM |
|
Edited by TheDeath at 02:30, 25 Nov 2009.
|
Quote:
Owning a house and eating requires money. Money comes from work. Work means hours, days, years. Sharing ones work for free with friends/strangers means you really don't care about the author life conditions, thus don't care about the quality of his work, as both are going together. Hope this answered to your question.
Yes that's partly correct. Still not stealing. However one has also to take into account when you make money off his works -- and I'm not talking about plagiarism (which is claiming ownership of his works, something I'm totally against). (attribution is not the same as copyright) But there's also the "fraud" factor, when you make money off his works alone.
There are also the *******s who go and pirate, only to make profits from it and this is double hypocrisy if they then don't like to be pirated.  This is, by no means, something I agree with. I hate disrespectful and hypocritical pirate-wannabes as much as you or probably anyone else here.
But say, if someone pirates some song, then makes songs for free inspired by that song (even available to the creator of that song btw, so you can say that he received something "in return"), does that make that person evil?
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 02:32 AM |
|
|
Quote:
will this discussion make u quit sharing maps?hope not
Making maps is a hobby and is drawn from my awe of the game and the friendship I feel for people playing it. Never expected to live from.
@The Death: you are the Elodin of this thread
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 03:14 AM |
|
|
Quote:
what do you mean, if not for Windows?
Windows (and other proprietary OSs) provided a platform in which the modern PC world could develop. Without them, there would be no Netscape Navigator. Without Netscape Navigator, the Internet would have developed very differently. Then Linux might not have become popular.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 08:44 AM |
|
|
I agree with everything blizzard, corribus, binabik and others of that side said.
One point hasn't been mentioned, I think.
In earlier times - the times of tape recorders - there was a working method: the put a fee on the storage media to be distributed amongst the publishers. That meant, you could copy stuff from radio/TV/friends' records/video cassettes and so on for private use because the STORAGE media were - comparatively - extremely expensive.
That's obviously not possible anymore today, since today basically everything can be used as a storage medium because it has some memory, and it makes no sense to make all the products with internal memory a lot more expensive just because it MIGHT be "abused" as a storage medium for downloaded enterteinment property. This would mean, if you bought your records and then an mp3-player to store part of your records on so that you could listen to them, you'd have to pay doubly, for the records and for the player, and probably more for the internet access as well.
Making the stuff simply available for download and cash in on internet access, storage media and devices for playing? That would mean that you'd have to pay for something, even if you didn't intend to download anything because you didn't like music.
|
|
titaniumalloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
|
|
posted November 25, 2009 10:37 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Then you are a thief, period.
No you are a thief! Ha!
NO U R!
____________
John says to live above hell.
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
