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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted November 26, 2009 04:00 AM |
- penalty applied by angelito on 27 Nov 2009. |
Edited by angelito at 20:21, 27 Nov 2009.
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You bloody idiot TheDeath. An album may take that much time because of costs, production costs and everything. Also some of the ideas for songs may take a different turn or they might add more songs. Most of the better albums that have ever been recorded took a long time to make and they were definitely worth it.
And honestly, I don't care what you do. Do what you like because I'm gonna be laughing at you all the time, like I am now, because you're a joke.
Edit by angelito
Personal insults are not allowed on HC!
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 26, 2009 04:08 AM |
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Quote:
You bloody idiot TheDeath. An album may take that much time because of costs, production costs and everything. Also some of the ideas for songs may take a different turn or they might add more songs. Most of the better albums that have ever been recorded took a long time to make and they were definitely worth it.
Oh I suppose a movie doesn't have such production costs then. (isn't it a bit ironic how a CD sometimes costs more than a movie as well? I'll never understand this artificial pricing)
And you don't have to live in the 70s anymore, you know that technology today makes it pretty affordable for an amateur to mix his own songs right? You know what's funny, the RIAA used to say that the costs for CDs were high because of production costs per CD, so as technology improved, they said prices would go lower.
Higher they went.
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And honestly, I don't care what you do. Do what you like because I'm gonna be laughing at you all the time, like I am now, because you're a joke.
When are you going to grow up? You honestly think I care what you think on a damn internet forum? If you don't have arguments, cut off the personal crap.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted November 26, 2009 04:12 AM |
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Edited by william at 04:13, 26 Nov 2009.
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I'm not disagreeing in regards to movies (you're the one that mentioned it). 
And if you don't care what I think then don't reply and shut the **** up. And honestly, this "no arguments" crap is getting annoying. And dude, I'm already grown up. I'm not the one getting so heated over arguments every day of my life and are as serious as you. I relax and I enjoy life. Try to do the same once in a while.
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pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
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posted November 26, 2009 04:14 AM |
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With so many people gathered in the same place there will always be discussions and members sometimes have different points of view, this is one of these cases...so i think the catch is not trying to change memberīs opinion but sharing yours.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted November 26, 2009 04:15 AM |
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That's true. I just wanted TheDeath to realise that it's not sharing when you're getting something illegally. It's stealing. Is it no wonder that there are laws in place to stop that stuff and that torrent sites are getting shut down?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 26, 2009 04:17 AM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 04:18, 26 Nov 2009.
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Quote:
And if you don't care what I think then don't reply and shut the **** up.
You should see who replied to who first. 
And I don't reply to your thoughts btw, I reply to what you write.
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And honestly, this "no arguments" crap is getting annoying.
I wish I didn't have to use it, you know, if you could lead it in a constructive manner. Let me put this differently.
Since you're relaxed, look over your posts, imagine that I wrote the same (as I did two times) but reverse the words (for example, replace stealing with sharing, and so on). Is that a good post that leads to civilized discussion? Something you can reply to in a constructive manner? Can you even reply to claims? I mean, how am I supposed to reply to CLAIMS which you have no desire to support with arguments?
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pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
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posted November 26, 2009 04:21 AM |
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Quote:
That's true. I just wanted TheDeath to realise that it's not sharing when you're getting something illegally. It's stealing. Is it no wonder that there are laws in place to stop that stuff and that torrent sites are getting shut down?
Well...now you are talking to a person who lives in one of the most illegal countries of the world regarding copyright but i still get ur point.
I think (and this could get me slapped)that this kind of piracy is cool in undeveloped countries cause you struggle just to put a meal in the table and if you want to enjoy some of the aspects of life you just have to pay an outstanding price.
I say it again if u wanna stop this then go and get those who upload the illegal data.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted November 26, 2009 04:23 AM |
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Edited by william at 04:32, 26 Nov 2009.
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Alright, I can understand your point that if your poor then you would go and download illegally or if you don't, then the appeal is at least there. Still doesn't make it right though, but that's just me.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 26, 2009 04:24 AM |
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Are there any pirates here that are man enough to admit what they do is wrong? Honestly, whenever I pirated stuff several years ago, I did it with a devilish grin and gleam in my eye. None of this "It's not really stealing and really I'm the same thing as Robin Hood and I'm just trying to save money, derpa derpa derpa durrr". You guys are the lamest villains ever. Show some spirit about it.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 26, 2009 04:26 AM |
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uh, for that quote (I prob. missed it, this thread is too fast for me), no not at all, the law doesn't get to decide what sharing means. If it's illegal to breath that doesn't mean when I'm breathing I am, in fact, not breathing. I couldn't care less when others want to restrict what you do without you even touching them. And the law sucks.
at least even the sucky law considers it a civil offense, not criminal one. Theft is criminal, so I guess that argument really holds no water no matter how you look at it.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 26, 2009 04:31 AM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 04:38, 26 Nov 2009.
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Quote:
Stil ldoesn't make it right though, but that's just me.
To me it doesn't make it right to restrict others access to ideas. It doesn't make it right to earn money without doing anything (selling COPIES). It doesn't make it right if you are not supported either, that's why I address the need for a different system. Not to mention the "invasion of privacy" when you restrict someone access to his own computer and internet (i.e not allowed to upload/download something), even though he doesn't affect the creators (he doesn't deprive them of anything they have).
http://questioncopyright.org/faq
Answers questions better than I could, and the guy's a musician or so I heard. (not that I don't plan to be, some sort of sound designer, and also my open-source programming skills would help me with plugins ).
First comment is particularly interesting:Quote:
Disney felt free to use the characters of European fables and folk tales (Snowhite, Cinderella etc.), because there was no copyright on them, it didn't exist back then, and even if it had existed, it would have expired by the 1930's. Because copyright is to expire sooner or later, like patents are. Stories must enter the public domain and become an universal treasure, accessible and modifiable by all humankind. Now they don't want us to do with Mickey Mouse what they did to Cinderella.
Imagine how games would be like without dwarves and elves, if copyright existed in that time and they kept renewing it. 
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pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
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posted November 26, 2009 04:37 AM |
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Quote:
Are there any pirates here that are man enough to admit what they do is wrong? Honestly, whenever I pirated stuff several years ago, I did it with a devilish grin and gleam in my eye. None of this "It's not really stealing and really I'm the same thing as Robin Hood and I'm just trying to save money, derpa derpa derpa durrr". You guys are the lamest villains ever. Show some spirit about it.
Hey BB perhaps u make a lot of fuzz cause piracy is banned where u live. In here, we all learn from pirate programs, we even develop software through pirate programs, movies and music are downloaded and next sold in the street for those who wont make the download themselves. Clothes are imitation of the real thing and program cracks are the most common thing, you see original products do exist in here but few buy them.
The most common situation is a group of persons gathered to watch a pirate movie and they laugh when the dvd starts with all that "warning!piracy!" stuff. Not saying its ok but i only say that it is common in this society and thats why there is no fighting against piracy.
Lots of countries have drugs installed as an amusement for kids, they see it as a common thing while in here its recently starting to get accepted but the fight still continues.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted November 26, 2009 04:41 AM |
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Do you have a Pirate Party (political party) in Argentina or is it unneeded there?
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pei
Famous Hero
Fresh Air.
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posted November 26, 2009 04:43 AM |
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Do you have a Pirate Party (political party) in Argentina or is it unneeded there?
It is unneeded, we are all pirates in some way and noone wants to change. I think that cause argentinians selfish way of thinking goes hand by hand with piracy.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 26, 2009 02:04 PM |
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Myself, I'm done with presenting arguments, so no more arguing from me (Death can represent pro-piracy on his own  )
Still, I need to address some faulty claims.
Geny,
you're not exactly close. There is a reason that I say with such certainty that I won't buy something, and it is lack of money. You can say "go earn more", but I have no more time - I already am working part time when possible and I have the highest scholarship available. Getting more is out of question, and since I have difficulties to live from 1st to 1st, getting games is also pretty much out of possibility now. Also music and movies.
Which means, there is TRULY no way I'm going to buy the game and it's undisputable. I have two choices - get it or don't get it - which BOTH have the SAME outcome. Which means I can freely choose whatever is better. If, as JJ say, this is egoism, than fine, I agree - this is egoism. If egoism is based on picking the better option for you if both don't cause any harm, than it's the ESSENCE of egoism.
Remember, this is important in my reasoning: I have ONLY those two options possible. Option called 'buying' is NOT EXISTENT. The choice is PRECISELY based on those two, and I have to pick one. Which would you pick? Which would JJ pick, or Corribus, being denied the ability to buy? They would probably NOT get it because they would consider this unfair. Which is fine. I think there is no difference between consequences of those two choices, which brings the most logical conclusion here: I can chose whichever option I want. No "evil" consequence.
TA,
Is this a joke? If nobody bought the product, it would also go down the drain and the market would fall. I don't see NOT BUYING outlawed though, the action that causes the same sad consequence. And you know why? Because it's the producer who should worry about selling, not the buyer who should worry about buying, meaning, there is no GUILT placed on you if his corporation fell because you ignored your products. Else, we're all criminals, because we DON'T buy thousands of products every day and deny insane amounts of profit to producers.
In fact yes, we do. And it's legal. It's even encouraged. Do you ever heard about a "good Samaritan" who says "I'm going NOT to save cash because I want to help the market!"? Wouldn't you laugh at that kind of thinking? But on other hand, when it comes to piracy, some people try to use this laughable thinking as an ARGUMENT and actually think they are reasonable with it. Rotfl. Telling me that "if everyone thought like that, X would fall, so thinking like that is wrong and doing so should be outlawed". But when you replace downloading with not buying, you get the same logical worth of a sentence, only that THIS time the argument is "it shouldn't be outlawed, it's OK".
Why on earth?
I'm not going to repeat it for like, next 20 times though. So it's the final time I mention it.
William,
As a guy working & wanting to work in musical department, you are kinda biased here. No offense, but if you call people who deny your profits THIEVES, call ALL of them thieves, or it's hypocrisy. Meaning, if someone says, wait, your music is ****, I don't want to buy it, he ALSO denies your profit and he's ALSO a thief.
The following action (downloading the game) has no consequence on the state of your pocket whatsover. Meaning that it's the DECISION of not buying your music that makes you lose cash and NOT the following actions, they have NO CONSEQUENCE to your pocket whether he HAS your music or NOT.
So, the argument with "denying profit" is simply BS as long as the "customer" is CERTAIN he WON'T buy your stuff under any circumstance.
Which means, what crime is left - that he uses your game without your permission? is that really stealing since there is no loss (we already covered the profit)? NOPE. Your only loss is that you don't get gratitude for your work. But in fact, in this world, gratitude is nice, but not MANDATORY. You know what I mean? That you can't outlaw people because they are snows. If you do something for someone and he in return shows you the finger, you can't really make him go to jail because of that and it's not a CRIME. He's just an ungrateful snow - such as the pirates - but he's not a CRIMINAL - and pirates aren't either. Nobody said it's a perfectly gentle way - but it does not have such pejorative meaning as STEALING, which causes DIRECT LOSS. "Profit denial", due to the situation I explained above, isn't even something that's worth mentioning - you can get your profit denied by a million of accepted both by law AND common sense ways. Pinpointing one of them and calling it thievery is simply POINTLESS from logical point of view. You can even write it down mathematically and you'll see that my point is absolutely OK from mathematical point of view.
Meaning, it's up to interpretation. Which is underlined by the fact that different countries have different rules here. Thievery is outlawed EVERYWHERE, so is murder, so is rape. But downloading? No, it is not. Having sex with a 15yo girl? nope. Not everywhere. Going by ABSOLUTE morals you're trying to present here aka YOU'RE A THIEF NO MATTER WHAT, you're in fact forgetting that the law is different. Much like some US guys may call me a pedophile. By their rules, it may be called like that (well, actually not - nymphophilia, if anything, because pedophilia has two international rules 1) age below 13 2) the suspect older than 5 years than the "victim"), by my country's rules it's ok. So, I'm I - going by ABSOLUTE morals - a nymphophile or not? If I am, is it morally wrong? On what basis? Law? it differs from country to country. What other basis then?
Ultimately, it's all about how YOU see it, because it's arguable whether it causes any harm or not. There is no direct harm, that's for sure. Which means, you may argument your opinion based on your EXPECTATIONS of FUTURE consequences of such act, but you can't call it something instantly WRONG.
And that means, it can't be condemned on any ABSOLUTE basis. Which simply means, your point of view is your POINT OF VIEW. Nothing more and nothing less.
In conclusion, I would advise to use "imho". I don't mind if you say "I think it's thievery". You are well allowed to express your opinion and I don't mind it. It's different when you - or Binabik - point your finger at me and say THIEF. Because this - taking into consideration of what I said above - is not ABSOLUTE, meaning it's up to interpretation depending on the situation and intents. Hell, everything is and absolute morals are abstraction, but murdering an infant can be called ABSOLUTE evil, something we can't find ANY excuse for and no matter what the context is, it's WRONG. But this? Even the countries' laws differ, not mentioning the way of thinking. WHich means it IS offensive and your OPINION doesn't justify OFFENSE. Much as me calling someone "snowing idiot". Am I justified to call him that because I THINK he is one? NO.
Oh, and of course I'm personally not offended, neither by you, nor by Binabik. But some may take offense, and the offense is, as you see, justified. Unless you want to tell me that calling people names or accusing them on something based on what you THINK is ok. But remember, that makes me able to say or accuse you of whatever I THINK is adequate.
This is, I guess, my last big post in the topic. Unless there is some minor thing to add later in response, I'm done. Thanks and cheers, folks.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 26, 2009 02:13 PM |
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Quote:
That's true. I just wanted TheDeath to realise that it's not sharing when you're getting something illegally. It's stealing. Is it no wonder that there are laws in place to stop that stuff and that torrent sites are getting shut down?
Phhhft, you want us all to not advance or realize that techology has advanced? And you call it stealing? Phhhft:
Stealing == taking something from somebody.
Torrenting/pirating/downloading == making a digital copy of another digital copy
Its morally questionable, at the worst/best. And consider the actual practice on the stuff, the people who just downloads to download would never have bought anything anyway. Those are a small minority which barely exists. Then we got most of the "pirates", which downloads and buys if they can afford.
Quote:
movies and music are downloaded and next sold in the street for those who wont make the download themselves.
So i take it the common internett connection is crap? I can't se any good reason to make money of other people
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted November 26, 2009 02:23 PM |
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Quote:
Torrenting/pirating/downloading == making a digital copy of another digital copy
Umm no. Torrenting/pirating is getting something for free that you'd otherwise pay for which is illegal.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 26, 2009 02:26 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Torrenting/pirating/downloading == making a digital copy of another digital copy
Umm no. Torrenting/pirating is getting something for free that you'd otherwise pay for which is illegal.
Still, its not theft nor stealing. And that is my bloody point.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted November 26, 2009 02:39 PM |
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Well what the ****ing hell is stealing to you then?
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted November 26, 2009 02:43 PM |
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Will, Ragephail much?
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This thread is pages long: 
