|
|
Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
|
posted April 25, 2011 04:03 AM |
|
|
Quote:
It is not like you died of starvation if you could not get the last song/movie/game.
LIES!!!
____________
|
|
blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 04:22 AM |
|
|
@Doomforge:
Quote:
For those feeling I'm a leech and stuff - well folks, life is brutal, live with it.
My blood is on your hands.
*commits suicide*
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 09:54 AM |
|
|
This discussion is a good example for the fact that people will accept the most absurd ideas provided they support what they would like to believe.
Just take the point that Quote:
if everyone didn't have children, humanity would die out, so not having children is a crime because it leads to end of humanity
. I'm not sure where this point is supposed to lead, but in fact, not having children is fined - or, to say it correctly, HAVING children is encouraged with financial boons in the 1st world countries (while piracy is discouraged with penalties and fines), so while this may sound funny, it's simply reality.
And while it is true that cars are something material and digital iformation is not, "material" is irelevant in this equation. You are not paying for material when you buy something - you pay for time, ability, work and, most of all, IDEAS, in the stuff you buy. A car is expensive not because of the material, but because of the bundle of functions and ideas you get. And because lots of people must work and lots of money has to be invested to make it possible that every snow can profit from the ideas and functions.
That's true for digital entertainment as well. Lots of people spend time, effort and ability to entertain people. Technology makes it possible that it can reach everyone.
Consequently those people have to be paid, and the idea that they are paid by those who are entertained is logical.
Which means, piracy is wrong - it is THAT simple. Expensive or not - there is no basic right of "being entertained the way I want to - for free", and if I don't have the money to buy things, I simply cannot buy.
And this IS a greed problem, because it's based on a certain inability to decide on what you REALLY want. "It MIGHT be good, so I must have it" is no way to go through life for people with a limited financial background, but it's something that should be LEARNED, because in general life piracy doesn't work. Instead of pirating stuff people should invest time in finding out what they are really interested in by BUYING it - because that makes errors costly.
However, that's a more philosophic aspect of the whole debate - the arbitrariness of it all and the bad effect this has in general.
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 10:35 AM |
|
|
I'd download a car and I'd take the game. I don't see anything wrong with either.
Here I have to note that 99% of all games I've ever played have been copied from friends. 90% of them were not even made by gaming companies but inviduals and locals at that. That's how the computer gaming worked back in the days. You'd give a share to your friends, they'd give you, everybody wins.
If you're saying the gaming companies lose, you're wrong. In the SNES with the games legit, no one would buy a game if someone already had it and it would just circulate through the owners as a loan. With copying it's just easier.
Now with downloading, I wouldn't be taking anything from anyone, and seeing as I wouldn't be buying the car anyways the company wouldn't lose either. If there's something I really liked, I'd buy it.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 11:41 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Now with downloading, I wouldn't be taking anything from anyone, and seeing as I wouldn't be buying the car anyways the company wouldn't lose either.
That's the error. The question is not what the company loses - the question is what you WIN. You win something that you either don't need or want (and therefore would be a waste to download; for this there are the things called DEMO VERSIONS) or you like it, and then you win. In this case you can do it ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY, because OTHERS DO PAY the company.
For the others, though, the effect of this is that they have to suffer things like StarForce, a working internet connection for playing, additional content that costs money and so on. The loss is simply OUR loss.
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 12:08 PM |
|
|
If I get a thing I find I don't want or need I'll delete it. That simple.
If only the demos of these days wouldn't be 5 gigs big I would play a lot more of them. Spending two days downloading a demo when I can get the full in 2½ is a waste.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 01:51 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Spending two days downloading a demo when I can get the full in 2½ is a waste.
Are you really saying that because something is expedient or economic it means it's also ok? I suppose not. So I don't think that point works.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 03:35 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Spending two days downloading a demo when I can get the full in 2½ is a waste.
Are you really saying that because something is expedient or economic it means it's also ok? I suppose not. So I don't think that point works.
It does work.
Never mind that a lot of games never provides demos either.
There also exist a ton of people who have preordered games, and download them on realease date because waiting for them in the mail would be 2-3 days entire delay.
Nevermind the snow commercials some movies come with, or insane DRM some games come with. You torrent, and you crack, and it works better than the uncracked.
There is no need for us to "justify" downloading a copy, because we are not stealing, and what we are downloading could have been avoided by the companies if they provided us with a proper platform for doing the same thing, with the same benefits as "pirating".
I am aware that you are from another era than us, and because of that perceive the world from a different perspective, but that does not make your arguments correct without proper backing.
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 04:02 PM |
|
|
In that case I suppose you have no problem with anyone hacking your pc, downloading the stuff and your private electronic life on their own, copying things and offering them on the web: your homework for school? A presentation? Your diploma thesis? The book you just finished writing? Because you are just not giving out the information freely.
Not to mention that the "insane DRM" you mention are the consequence of piracy (and not piracy the consequence of "insane DRM").
|
|
Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 04:16 PM |
|
|
Quote:
There is no need for us to "justify" downloading a copy, because we are not stealing, and what we are downloading could have been avoided by the companies if they provided us with a proper platform for doing the same thing, with the same benefits as "pirating".
Sorry, but you are taking what you have no right to. That is theft. You are not entitled to what someone else worked to produce unless you give them the compensation they demand for their effort.
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 04:42 PM |
|
|
Insane DRMs are a consequence of piracy just like the Nazi policy of shooting 100 random civilians for 1 dead German soldier in occupied Serbia was a consequence of partisan activity.
BAM! Godwin.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 04:57 PM |
|
|
Wait, you mean, software piracy is somewhat a partisan activity of innocent consumers against the occupational economics of the evil nazi game producers? 
Umm, yeah...
Do you have more jokes like that?
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 05:14 PM |
|
|
Quote:
In that case I suppose you have no problem with anyone hacking your pc, downloading the stuff and your private electronic life on their own, copying things and offering them on the web: your homework for school? A presentation? Your diploma thesis? The book you just finished writing? Because you are just not giving out the information freely.
Not to mention that the "insane DRM" you mention are the consequence of piracy (and not piracy the consequence of "insane DRM").
Piracy existed back in the days of Amiga: You copied disks with friends, but back in the day the hardware and algorythms where not powerful enough for proper DRM.
Piracy exists because of DRM, but DRM blames it on piracy, a dilemma? Yes?
If DRM exists because of piracy, why does games without DRM exist then? Surely there must be a logic flaw somewhere.......
Don't forget that the insane DRM is also beaten and cracked, meaning the pirates YET AGAIN get the better deal....
As for my personal stuff: I would never share them with anyone in the first place, hence the analogy is invalid. Come back with a car analogy next time I presume?
However: If I shared them with a friend, then frankly I would not mind if the friend started sharing them with even more people, but I would be pissed if they altered the content and started using it against me.
But that is what the civil police and lawsuits are for, to get whoever started the evil against me and bring them to justice.
____________
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 05:16 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
There is no need for us to "justify" downloading a copy, because we are not stealing, and what we are downloading could have been avoided by the companies if they provided us with a proper platform for doing the same thing, with the same benefits as "pirating".
Sorry, but you are taking what you have no right to. That is theft. You are not entitled to what someone else worked to produce unless you give them the compensation they demand for their effort.
At the worst, piracy is plagiarism, that means someone making copies and the selling them.
At the best we have todays situation: Games and music and entertainment is still being sold, but the socalled crowdsurfing effect is retained from piracy, so that people still buy it.
I can by definition not steal software, because that would mean I broke into some vendor and stole a copy from them.
If I indeed managed to get a physical piece of property, from a redistributor or vendor, I have indeed done theft, because there is 1 less physical copy for everyone who does it legally.
But piracy does not work that way!
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 05:23 PM |
|
|
Quote:
At the best we have todays situation:
You must be kidding.
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 05:23 PM |
|
|
Quote:
At the worst, piracy is plagiarism, that means someone making copies and the selling them.
Actually, it's not plagiarism at all - because the pirate doesn't pass the work off as his own - but supposing just for a second that it is: do you think plagiarism should be condoned?
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 05:58 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
At the best we have todays situation:
You must be kidding.
Argument please?
Quote:
Quote:
At the worst, piracy is plagiarism, that means someone making copies and the selling them.
Actually, it's not plagiarism at all - because the pirate doesn't pass the work off as his own - but supposing just for a second that it is: do you think plagiarism should be condoned?
Depends on what level of plagiarism.
Just adopting someone else idea and improving it is also plagiarism.
However, on the sliding scale of more and less plagiarist, it is quite far away from someone ripping of someone elses work and selling it claiming they made it.
Taking someone elses work, and selling it, is plagiarism, but it is not as bad as if you claimed you also created it.
Taking someone else work, and selling it, via a contract, is quite low on the scale of plagiarism i presume, because it hits some mental providing area in our blessed monkey sphere.
So my answer is that high levels of plagiarism should be condomned, but we need some of it. We need people to improve ideas, and we need people to advocate and spread ideas.
However, we do not need people claiming to have invented something they have not, and make profit on the top of that.
PS: Replace ideas with media if you want too, because the wording and end result is not that much different.
____________
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 06:16 PM |
|
|
|
it is, and it is encouraged by school, since it is basically the way they learn us to think. plagiarizing the teacher while thinking it was our own idea.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 06:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
At the best we have todays situation:
You must be kidding.
Argument please?
PC gaming is pretty dead compared to the situation 15-20 years ago. The future of gaming is OBVIOUSLY online gaming, which will make all this obsolete - including piracy.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted April 25, 2011 07:14 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
At the best we have todays situation:
You must be kidding.
Argument please?
PC gaming is pretty dead compared to the situation 15-20 years ago. The future of gaming is OBVIOUSLY online gaming, which will make all this obsolete - including piracy.
You forget that the PC marked today is quite a lot larger than it was 15-20 years ago.
Online games are partially the future, until you realize how many companies are incapable of innovation and is doing their best to get abord the failboat.
I disagree a bit, the reason is that I think multiplatform gaming is the future. It would not surprise me if browser based games become really popular when the tech really hits the marked, and out of that suddenly multiplatform games that run on all consoles and similar.
The only "greif" issue would be the subscription model, but that is up the makers of the games yet again.
Nevermind that piracy is also rampart on consoles, but the developers are not whining about it.
So what was bad about todays situation?
____________
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
