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blizzardboy
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posted August 13, 2010 01:39 AM |
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That's why they're not going to just blend in. Eastern Europeans and Latin Americans are out-of-place for one generation, and their children snug in and grow up pretty much acting like any other national. Muslim's children: not.
It's particularly with N. Africa and some of the more obscure parts of the ME. When you import them from Turkey or Indonesia it's not that bad.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 13, 2010 01:46 AM |
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Quote:
When you import them
I just lol'd at myself 
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shyranis
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posted August 13, 2010 06:08 AM |
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Quote:
That's why they're not going to just blend in. Eastern Europeans and Latin Americans are out-of-place for one generation, and their children snug in and grow up pretty much acting like any other national. Muslim's children: not.
It's particularly with N. Africa and some of the more obscure parts of the ME.
I know an Egyptian from Egypt who acts very normal, loves gaming too. Particularly Civilization 4 and Left 4 Dead. He seems to buy a lot of games on steam.
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Binabik
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posted August 13, 2010 06:38 AM |
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Conflicts can easily develop within families. For example a family immigrates from a Middle Eastern culture with strict rules. Then they have children in the western world, or the children are very young when they immigrate. The child has western friends, western classmates, western teachers, etc.
So what happens when the 16 year old daughter who is far more western than Middles Eastern gets asked out on a date? What if she really likes the guy who asked her out and is dreaming of her first date, or her first kiss? What happens when the family makes it perfectly clear that she will NEVER date anyone no matter how old she is, and she will marry whoever they tell her to marry?
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Salamandre
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posted August 13, 2010 09:20 AM |
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The tolerance is one sided outlined. Here in France it is very known fact that when one is native french, white or christian, he has not a single chance to date a muslim/arabian girl, or he will be quickly stabbed by angry heavily armed brothers.
On the opposite side, if you refuse a job to a muslim, you will be thrown in court.
They daily complain that integration is not possible, while they do all they can to preserve ancestral traditions which exclude all contact or assimilation.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 13, 2010 04:39 PM |
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The way I see it, the only just method of preventing a potential Islamic surge is for the government immigration departments to just not bring them in to begin with according to their discretion, though in certain circles that is seen as discriminatory also.
As I see it, it's completely a nation's own business who they choose to bring or not bring into their domain. I see no problem with them being as picky as they please. But when you grant them citizenship and then start putting restrictions on them you're essentially recreating a class-structured society with nobles and serfs. Obviously, not nearly as extreme, but it's still there, and other than the immediate burden you put on these 2nd class citizens, you're setting yourself up for hate crime and dissent.
If you're not prepared to treat a group equally, or are willing to deal with the likely consequences, then don't bring them.
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xerox
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posted August 13, 2010 10:43 PM |
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In Sweden, the immigrants that seem to make the most "problems" seems to be the ones from like Somalia and other African countries. People from the Middle-East etc are mostly okay and cool.
There are also some turkish immigrants but from what I know, those came to Sweden several several years ago for work so they have intergrated into the Swedish culture and I just love them and I love Turkey aswell, it is one of my favorite countries.
What I do not like in Sweden though is that in the media, it is never stated if XXX criminal is an "immigrant" (even people born in sweden are considered immigrants by the general population) and there is like really little statistics.
I do laugh at people saying things like "Omg in 50 years, all of Europe will be Islamaztan!!! Omg omg we must mate a lot now to survive!!!". But in 50 years, the children of the african immigrants (in sweden) now will have been intergrated into swedish culture.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 13, 2010 11:20 PM |
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Kind of like how the Muslims were all cleanly integrated into the former-Byzantine nations after they gained independence from the Ottoman, and everybody held hands and started singing songs around the campfire?
Sure, you shouldn't expect total chaos and dogs and cats making love to each other on the street, but it doesn't mean it's not going to be a very significant cultural issue.
It's different. They aren't going to just smoothly blend in the way the child of a Polish family will blend into Chicago. That's just one culture moving into a fairly similar culture. The N. African Muslims come from a starkly different background, with highly conflicting core values and perspectives. Those core values will come under attack as they experience the culture beyond, but the family still plays a very strong role, particularly when these kids are somewhat isolated.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 14, 2010 03:11 PM |
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Gj Obama, you said something intelligent.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama
Also, these are the primary people mad about it:
Quote:
...sparking debate around the country as top Republicans including Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich announced their opposition. So did the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish civil rights group.
lol . Such pathetic hypocrisy.
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Adrius
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posted August 14, 2010 03:14 PM |
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*applauds*
+200 respect points for Obama.
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del_diablo
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posted August 14, 2010 03:35 PM |
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Quote:
*applauds*
+200 respect points for Obama.
+1
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Elodin
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posted August 15, 2010 02:26 AM |
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Quote:
That doesn't mean, the Christian fundamental doctrin doesn't kill people, though.
False claim. Jesus said to love and do good even to your enemies. So a fundamentalist Christian would not have docrtines that kill people.
Fundamentalist atheists such as Pol Pot, Mao, Staln, Lenin, ect, have murderred people by the millions. Anyway, I don't want to defend the muslim way of living - I just don't think it's worse than atheism, when it comes to fundamentalism
The conflict with the IRA is a conflict between English and Irish nationals and really has nothiing to do with religion.
Federal governmnet pays of Islamic fundraising tour
Quote:
The State Department is sending Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf - the mastermind of the Ground Zero Mosque - on a trip through the Middle East to foster "greater understanding" about Islam and Muslim communities in the United States. However, important questions are being raised about whether this is simply a taxpayer-funded fundraising jaunt to underwrite his reviled project, which is moving ahead in Lower Manhattan.
Obama: -5 million points
The federal government has no business paying for a the ground zero Muslim cleric to go around the world preaching a "greater understanding of Islam."
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Salamandre
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posted August 15, 2010 02:30 AM |
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Quote:
Jesus said to love and do good even to your enemies. So a fundamentalist Christian would not have docrtines that kill people. should rejoice when something good happens to his enemies.
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blizzardboy
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posted August 15, 2010 02:33 AM |
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Quote:
The federal government has no business paying for a the ground zero Muslim cleric to go around the world preaching a "greater understanding of Islam."
I don't know the specifics of what he's doing, so I might not agree on the details, but: yes, the federal government does have business doing that, and this is coming from a guy that is probably more fiscally conservative than you are. Diplomacy and foreign outreach is an imperative directive that is handled exclusively by the federal government. If you want to talk about things that the federal government shouldn't be doing, maybe you can talk about the other "functions" in the M.E. that are currently going on and are literally millions of times more costly than this guy's little tour. You're straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel.
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Salamandre
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posted August 15, 2010 02:40 AM |
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I think Obama had no choice other than take this position. Avoiding it would be denying the principles of difference, tolerance and generosity which lead to his own nomination. Legally speaking at least. Now what are the real hidden reasons for building this mosque, we will see it sooner or later, if there are any.
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Binabik
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posted August 15, 2010 03:05 AM |
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You guys do realize that Obama is doing nothing but taking a neutral stance on this, right? And if anything he's siding on the same side as myself and many others.
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del_diablo
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posted August 15, 2010 05:33 AM |
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You guys do realize that Obama is doing nothing but taking a neutral stance on this, right? And if anything he's siding on the same side as myself and many others.
He is not using the oppertunity to gloat PR, so I am happy regardless.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 15, 2010 09:33 AM |
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Obama is actually on the side of the darn constitution, as he should be as the President of the US.
And the constitution is pretty clear about this.
Whether something is wise or not, is a question that's irrelevant because the constitution doesn't forbid doing unwise things.
Of course, if something is unwise that's no excusse for acting against it ignoring the law.
Wisdom is something, though, that depends on one's goals. Obviously muslims have somewhat had a harder time in the US since 9/11, and while it might be considered "unwise" to escalate this, if the aim is to AVOID repercussions, from another point of view it could be considered wise to provoke the anti-muslim mood to become more open and maybe have a meeting at one or more courts to openly clarify a couple of points.
Obviously it makes sense to clarify whether the equality principle is still valid for muslims and the muslimic religion in the US or not.
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Elodin
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posted August 15, 2010 09:45 AM |
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Quote:
Obama is actually on the side of the darn constitution, as he should be as the President of the US.
And the constitution is pretty clear about this.
Nah. The Islamic cleric is known to have funded at least one Islamic terrorist operation. The US is at war with Islamic terrorism. The US is not obligated to allow the enemy to build a base of operations in the US.
Furthur, it is against the US Constitution for the federal government to fund a Muslim cleric going around the world preaching Islam. The dems would have a cow if a president funded a Christian evangelist going around the world preaching "a greater understanding of Christiaity."
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angelito
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posted August 15, 2010 10:17 AM |
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Quote:
False claim. Jesus said to love and do good even to your enemies.
So wouldn't Jesus allow to build a mosque near ground zero then? 
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