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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 18, 2010 12:15 AM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 00:16, 18 Aug 2010.
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@matt: I asked berny for a lineup to clearify what he means with the research, to understand him better.
Quote:
Except that it only goes again H5, in every previous game the hero had no morale effect on the creatures, you could stick a Death Knight in charge of a bunch of Castle creatures and they wouldn't take any morale penalty.
hmmm in H4 it also did, I think. (not completely sure, though) Also it was not so much only about the moral, but the whole idea in this way. I'm unsure about it, but it just feels...strange to me.
EDIT: Note (in case you haven't seen): I have also a post directly before this asking a thing about bernys tech tree diea
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 18, 2010 12:19 AM |
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Well I'm trying to explain mine first, so I'll get to the other ones later, but anyways...
If you Research Rage, then you can make normal Demons become Rage Demons in the town where Rage was researched. You would have to pay more for Rage Demons and a sum to upgrade Demons into Rage Demons, but you wouldn't have to waste your building ability in your town to upgrade a town dwelling. Researches would generally cost about the same as upgrading a town dwelling would in previous games. You can also begin to research multiple Researches in a single turn, but they would take a certain amount of turns (depending on how high up the Research level is). To get Hellfire, just buy the Upgrade, though Upgrades are generally expensive since it is not limited to a single town and you don't have to pay for every soldier that benefits from it.
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Skyrim RP? YES!
Here it is!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 18, 2010 12:23 AM |
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My votes for the current list (+1/0/-1):
Quote:
List:
-Random Events 
-more complex sieges
-more diplomatic options - changing allies, etc. during scenario
-more diplomatic options - shared armies
-more diplomatic options - increased tradeing 
-ambushs
-variable campaign structure
-Bigger Battlefields
-Option to retreat without losing the whole army 
-Creature Experience (ALSO NEW SKILLS AND ABILITIE!!!).
-no ultimate skill/perk and no cross-skill prerequesites
-choose racial skill for any hero (thus quasi making him the hero class of your like) instead of hero belonging to one class, having it's racial
-war machines can be controlled without skill
-various ultimate artifacts instead of just "the grail"/"tear of asha"
-higher chance for creatures joining your army when they have the same faction as the hero
-each tavern has different heroes for hire
-multiple different tech & research paths
-unit counters - abilities making unit stronger against certain types of other units (like, f.e., mounted units)
Also, I would say:
- Unit initiative (as in H5)
- Advanced classes (as in H4)
- Different Hero direct attack options
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What will happen now?
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 18, 2010 12:29 AM |
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Quote:
My votes for the current list (+1/0/-1):
Quote:
List:
-Random Events
-more complex sieges
-more diplomatic options - changing allies, etc. during scenario
-more diplomatic options - shared armies
-more diplomatic options - increased tradeing
-ambushs
-variable campaign structure
-Bigger Battlefields
-Option to retreat without losing the whole army
-Creature Experience (ALSO NEW SKILLS AND ABILITIE!!!).
-no ultimate skill/perk and no cross-skill prerequesites
-choose racial skill for any hero (thus quasi making him the hero class of your like) instead of hero belonging to one class, having it's racial
-war machines can be controlled without skill
-various ultimate artifacts instead of just "the grail"/"tear of asha"
-higher chance for creatures joining your army when they have the same faction as the hero
-each tavern has different heroes for hire
-multiple different tech & research paths
-unit counters - abilities making unit stronger against certain types of other units (like, f.e., mounted units)
Also, I would say:
- Unit initiative (as in H5)
- Advanced classes (as in H4)
- Different Hero direct attack options
My opinion is quite the same as his, except that I would love to see complex sieges and random events to spice things up.
Also, I was thinking that battles would take up days at a time, so like 30 turns would equal a day, but the heroes in battle would be locked in battle unless they retreat or surrender while in battle. Meanwhile, you can send reinforcements to the battle to help with the fight. Same with Sieges. I also think that setting up spies in a certain location or something so that you can endlessly see a place and be notified about it until the spies are found and killed would be a great addition to the thieves guild.
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Skyrim RP? YES!
Here it is!
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 18, 2010 12:44 AM |
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Quote:
I also think that setting up spies in a certain location or something so that you can endlessly see a place and be notified about it until the spies are found and killed would be a great addition to the thieves guild.
I like!
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What will happen now?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 18, 2010 12:45 AM |
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Quote:
-Option to retreat without losing the whole army
Just out of curiosity, why?
Quote:
-no ultimate skill/perk and no cross-skill prerequesites
Is it both you don't like or just one?
Quote:
- Unit initiative (as in H5)
Quote:
- Advanced classes (as in H4)
Is this in addition to the current individual specialties, or does it replace it? Also, how would it work with Racial Skills?
Quote:
- Different Hero direct attack options
Could you explain this a bit better please?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 18, 2010 12:52 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
-Option to retreat without losing the whole army
Just out of curiosity, why?
Mostly for balance reasons. I think it's an important core of the game that if you get engaged in combat (voluntarily or unvoluntarily) you have to either stay (for better or worse) or throw away your army. Surrender option was ok, however (need to pay).
Quote:
Quote:
-no ultimate skill/perk and no cross-skill prerequesites
Is it both you don't like or just one?
I liked the cross-skill thing, it made for long-term planning of skills. As for ultimates - the idea was good, the implimentation was horrible.
Quote:
Quote:
- Advanced classes (as in H4)
Is this in addition to the current individual specialties, or does it replace it? Also, how would it work with Racial Skills?
No specific ideas, to be honest. A subclass skill that could be gained at a certain level, or simply the option that you get some unique skill or feature based on your skill combinations would work.
Quote:
Quote:
- Different Hero direct attack options
Could you explain this a bit better please?
Yes, what I mean is your hero can do different attack styles, like melee attack (default) or ranged attack (will need a certain skill), mounted attack, maybe learn different attack patterns (like ride-by, whirlwind, rain-of-arrows, etc), skills and features to improve damage, etc.
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What will happen now?
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted August 18, 2010 12:55 AM |
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Anyways i want the racial system to not be so backwards snow as it was in heroes 5. there should be more cross-faction synergy. and it should be simpler. (not simplistic, simpler). there is no real reason the knight's retaliation strike shouldn't have worked on demon troops or such. or the worst offender, the minifacts didn't work on non-academy troops. The loops you have to jump through to even do that are plenty enough and players should be rewarded for having different town types rather than punished.
Specialized skill trees for having two towns of different factions would be fun.
Special upgrades depending on your other captured towns would be fun.
Perhaps even special heroes who can only be recruited if you have multiple towns of separate alignments.
But that's just me.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 18, 2010 01:01 AM |
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Quote:
If you Research Rage, then you can make normal Demons become Rage Demons in the town where Rage was researched. You would have to pay more for Rage Demons and a sum to upgrade Demons into Rage Demons, but you wouldn't have to waste your building ability in your town to upgrade a town dwelling. Researches would generally cost about the same as upgrading a town dwelling would in previous games. You can also begin to research multiple Researches in a single turn, but they would take a certain amount of turns (depending on how high up the Research level is). To get Hellfire, just buy the Upgrade, though Upgrades are generally expensive since it is not limited to a single town and you don't have to pay for every soldier that benefits from it.
I think I understand now...itÄs late here, and I'll go to bed now...I will say more tomorrow - I'm not really convinced, still, but it certainly IS interesting! 
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 18, 2010 01:02 AM |
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"Thank you. Thank you very much."
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Skyrim RP? YES!
Here it is!
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Kraken
Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
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posted August 18, 2010 01:04 AM |
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Quote:
-higher chance for creatures joining your army when they have the same faction as the hero
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Vini Vidi Vici
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 18, 2010 01:05 AM |
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^^...and I'll also, of course, include all the other comments etc in the first post tomorrow
I'm glad quite soem of us coem together here! 'though they are the ones I expected 
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted August 18, 2010 01:07 AM |
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I, mainly, want much more advanced combat options. Units hiding in trees, digging, tunnels, swimming, climbing over obstacles, hiding behind obstacles, etc. Of course, this would work better with a much bigger battlefield.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 18, 2010 01:07 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
- Advanced classes (as in H4)
Is this in addition to the current individual specialties, or does it replace it? Also, how would it work with Racial Skills?
No specific ideas, to be honest. A subclass skill that could be gained at a certain level, or simply the option that you get some unique skill or feature based on your skill combinations would work.
Still then.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
- Different Hero direct attack options
Could you explain this a bit better please?
Yes, what I mean is your hero can do different attack styles, like melee attack (default) or ranged attack (will need a certain skill), mounted attack, maybe learn different attack patterns (like ride-by, whirlwind, rain-of-arrows, etc), skills and features to improve damage, etc.
Does this mean you want heroes in combat?
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted August 18, 2010 02:26 AM |
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-Random Events - Randomness should be optional though.
-more complex sieges - sieges are complex enough as is Imo. Specialize war machines would be nice though.
-more diplomatic options - changing allies, etc. during scenario - YES
-more diplomatic options - shared armies - can't see the harm would almost never do anything anyways.
-more diplomatic options - increased tradeing - Yay
-ambushs - I still have nightmares about events in heroes 3. getting ambushed while you are at your weakest and getting killed isn't fun at all.
-variable campaign structure - YES
-Bigger Battlefields - from the screen shots the battlefields are bigger.
-Option to retreat without losing the whole army - Losng only a percentage? or perhaps selecting a stack to use as a sacrificial lamb?
-Creature Experience, but only stat boost, no new abilities. - crazy complex. and it really only does what upgrades are meant to do.
-creature Experience, including new skills&abilities
-no ultimate skill/perk and no cross-skill prerequesites - , and
-choose racial skill for any hero (thus quasi making him the hero class of your like) instead of hero belonging to one class, having it's racial. - I don't understand this.
-war machines can be controlled without skill - , Why?
-various ultimate artifacts instead of just "the grail"/"tear of asha" -
-higher chance for creatures joining your army when they have the same faction as the hero -
-each tavern has different heroes for hire -
-multiple different tech & research paths - , this is what hero skills are supposed to represent.
-unit counters - abilities making unit stronger against certain types of other units (like, f.e., mounted units) - , you mean like hobbits in h4?
-Initiative (as in H5) - for me initiative was H5's gimmick. That which made the game unique from the others in it's line. It's absence from H6 will help H6 differentiate itself and become a more full fledged sequel.
-Advanced classes (as in H4) - No real need if heroes don't participate in combat.
-Different Hero direct attack options - Why? Spells aren't enough?
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Kaxcer
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 18, 2010 02:34 AM |
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Edited by Kaxcer at 02:39, 18 Aug 2010.
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-Random Events
-more complex sieges
-more diplomatic options -changing allies, etc. during scenario
-more diplomatic options - shared armies
-more diplomatic options - increased trading
-ambushs
-variable campaign structure
-Bigger Battlefields
-Option to retreat without losing the whole army Could be very hard to catch your opponent if he could retreat too easily ... maybe 50% army losses instead of 100%
-Creature Experience, but only stat boost, no new abilities. bad idea in my opinion because it could be messy if you add new creatures to already experienced stack
-creature Experience, including new skills&abilities same as above
-no ultimate skill/perk and no cross-skill prerequesites i dont like prequesites to ultimate so some kind of compromise would be good (for example you need expert luck + 3 specific luck skills for warlock ultimate in h5 so that would change to 3 random luck skills)
-choose racial skill for any hero (thus quasi making him the hero class of your like) instead of hero belonging to one class, having it's racial
-war machines can be controlled without skill war machine skills could become obsolete
-various ultimate artifacts instead of just "the grail"/"tear of asha" maybe a grails with various effects (50% growth+2000g, +5 attack for all your heroes etc) maybe thats what you meant anyway as i didnt play h2 too much
-higher chance for creatures joining your army when they have the same faction as the hero
-each tavern has different heroes for hire
-multiple different tech & research paths
-unit counters - abilities making unit stronger against certain types of other units (like, f.e., mounted units)
-Unit initiative (as in H5)
-Advanced classes (as in H4)
-Different Hero direct attack options
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 18, 2010 11:36 AM |
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Quote:
Also, I was thinking that battles would take up days at a time, so like 30 turns would equal a day, but the heroes in battle would be locked in battle unless they retreat or surrender while in battle. Meanwhile, you can send reinforcements to the battle to help with the fight. Same with Sieges. I also think that setting up spies in a certain location or something so that you can endlessly see a place and be notified about it until the spies are found and killed would be a great addition to the thieves guild.
Taking that in the list as 2 points:
-Battles taking time, possibly even lasting day (with a certain rate of turns=>day Heroes, unless surrendering, are stuck in the battle. Reinforcements can be sent.
An interesting innovation! It would also mean that you have to reason if you really want to go into a battle, since it binds your (strongest?) hero for a while...it would enhance teh will to have more heroes, I guess.
-Spies available in thieves guild, capable of watching an area
Oh YEAH!
Quote:
Mostly for balance reasons. I think it's an important core of the game that if you get engaged in combat (voluntarily or unvoluntarily) you have to either stay (for better or worse) or throw away your army. Surrender option was ok, however (need to pay).
then, I think, the costs of surrendering should be decreased.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
- Different Hero direct attack options
Could you explain this a bit better please?
Yes, what I mean is your hero can do different attack styles, like melee attack (default) or ranged attack (will need a certain skill), mounted attack, maybe learn different attack patterns (like ride-by, whirlwind, rain-of-arrows, etc), skills and features to improve damage, etc.
So Yes! I like this much! Especially if there are might&magic-based heroes again
Quote:
Anyways i want the racial system to not be so backwards snow as it was in heroes 5. there should be more cross-faction synergy. and it should be simpler. (not simplistic, simpler). there is no real reason the knight's retaliation strike shouldn't have worked on demon troops or such. or the worst offender, the minifacts didn't work on non-academy troops. The loops you have to jump through to even do that are plenty enough and players should be rewarded for having different town types rather than punished.
So you want the racials to be working on a broader base? And what'you mean by "simpler"? More cross-faction synergy I like. ...can'T this point be changed/divided somehow
Quote:
Specialized skill trees for having two towns of different factions would be fun.
I love faction crossing!
Quote:
Special upgrades depending on your other captured towns would be fun.
Unit upgrades? THen SO
Quote:
Perhaps even special heroes who can only be recruited if you have multiple towns of separate alignments.
Yeah, like that one, too!
Quote:
I, mainly, want much more advanced combat options. Units hiding in trees, digging, tunnels, swimming, climbing over obstacles, hiding behind obstacles, etc. Of course, this would work better with a much bigger battlefield.
Any name for that point, besides "Advanced Combat options"? I'm neutral to it, btw.
Quote:
-ambushs - I still have nightmares about events in heroes 3. getting ambushed while you are at your weakest and getting killed isn't fun at all.
There were ambushs in H3? O.o ...except teh bandit ones you could OPTIONALLY have in wog? ...and this WOULD be much different. You can prevent ambushs. And of course, not everyone will be equally good in doing them and the bigger they army, the easier they spotted. On the other hand, it will gove the option, to be able to deefeat a bigger army.
Quote:
-choose racial skill for any hero (thus quasi making him the hero class of your like) instead of hero belonging to one class, having it's racial. - I don't understand this.
I think MattIII explained it quite well. All heroes have their specials and their style, as far as I understood, but NO racial from the beginning. You can then choose which racial they'll have and the racial also determines the moral. So any hero recruited will technically be of your factiosn class, if you wish...
Quote:
-multiple different tech & research paths - , this is what hero skills are supposed to represent.
Ehm...no! Hero skills represent abilities of the hero^^ Tech&Research path represent development in your towns of a certain style. Could be weapons6armor, training, certain demon types, such things.
Quote:
-Initiative (as in H5) - for me initiative was H5's gimmick. That which made the game unique from the others in it's line. It's absence from H6 will help H6 differentiate itself and become a more full fledged sequel.
-Advanced classes (as in H4) - No real need if heroes don't participate in combat.
Sou you're against those?
Quote:
-Different Hero direct attack options - Why? Spells aren't enough?
'cause thsoe would eb the might equivalent of spells...the difference between might&magic heroes.
Quote:
-Option to retreat without losing the whole army Could be very hard to catch your opponent if he could retreat too easily ... maybe 50% army losses instead of 100%
welll, taht would also fall under the point...it's just that we think you should not loose ALL your troops.
Quote:
-Creature Experience, but only stat boost, no new abilities. bad idea in my opinion because it could be messy if you add new creatures to already experienced stack
Shared Experience would solve that. Coudl eb sth like: (Experience of Stack 1+ Exp of stack 2)/2 = new stack experience
Quote:
-no ultimate skill/perk and no cross-skill prerequesites i dont like prequesites to ultimate so some kind of compromise would be good (for example you need expert luck + 3 specific luck skills for warlock ultimate in h5 so that would change to 3 random luck skills)
Could you specify this in a point, since it seems to be a different one?
Quote:
-war machines can be controlled without skill war machine skills could become obsolete
Not with just a tiny bit of creativity.
Quote:
-each tavern has different heroes for hire
Could you explain, why? Isn't it just logical that you can't recruit the same hero in a town on the southernmost corner and in a free tavern in the northernmost?!?
Quote:
-unit counters - abilities making unit stronger against certain types of other units (like, f.e., mounted units)
why not, if you'd liek to share that!?
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mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted August 18, 2010 01:42 PM |
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By cross faction synergy i mean stuff like the three suggestions i outlined below it. And to stop doing things like "Orcs only get blood rage with an orcish hero" or "Only academy units can get minifacts.".
The morale penalty for using units of different factions.
Simple stuff like that.
Ambushes in H3 were covered by events. They came without warning and bam dead.
I'm not necessarily against Initiative but i feel that the game needs to separate itself from it's predecessors. if getting rid of initiative (however good it was) does that then i feel it has accomplished something.
Dual classes i'm neutral about. I'd have to see more of H6 before i can make up my mind. but they could be an interesting way to generate cross faction synergy, learning another racial/townspecific ability could result in a dual class.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 18, 2010 01:47 PM |
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okay. Soudns good!
thinking of a way, currently, to put it into one or 2 points...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 18, 2010 03:16 PM |
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Quote:
-Different Hero direct attack options - Why? Spells aren't enough?
Yes, I want Hero in combat, and no, I don't think spells are enough.
These are Heroes of MIGHT and MAGIC for a reason, I don't think it makes sense that only Magic heroes can participate actively in the combat, while Might heroes just stand by on the sideline and watch.
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What will happen now?
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This thread is pages long: 
