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agent_00_blerd
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 11, 2010 10:16 PM |
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Even if it can be done with scripts, not anyone can do scripts (me, for example can't.^^) Also I thik it would be a nioce option anyway, to have rivers with crossing options. Would make good defense points, probably.
I'm a bit confused. If you mean we should be able to build a bridge anywhere at a river, that might defeat the purpose of the river as thought by the map maker. If this option was to be available only at certain points, it's the same as the mapmaker placing a bridge blocked by a quest guard that only allows you to cross once you've paid a price - the "construction cost". The only difference between your idea and mine is the visual effect of a blocked/now-unblocked bridge vs. a plain-river/now-covered-with-bridge. It could be added but I think it's still achievable with what we have now.
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no that'S not what this means. It means that EACH tavern on the map has 2 heroes to hire - and any other tavern has two other heroes to hire. A bit mroe of the realistic point, since a hero can hardly be in 2 places^^ also, it can give more sense/usefulness to AM taverns.
I actually WANT to be able to choose from a greater choice of heroes if all I'm getting are the same two heroes everywhere. However, your option is more logical and fulfills the same purpose by giving each tavern different heroes.
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-Heroes on Battlefield, but with infinite HP & can't fight without army
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may I ask you why? This means jsut that the hero has a POSITION on the battlefield, mostly. So for example, he jsut can't attack everywhere he lieks, but within it's movement range. Such things.
The infinite hp brings, to my mind, exploitable glitches. If properly worked, I guess it would be interesting though I'm fine with heroes staying at the battlefield edges. I'll change my opinion to 
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-Creature Experience, but only stat boost, no new abilities.
-creature Experience, including new skills&abilities
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Since you're for the second, why are you against the first
If they're implementing creature experience, I want the changes to be qualitative instead of just quantitative. Stat boosts are usually not all that visible unless you go deep into number crunching. For example, instead of "double damage", I would always prefer "strikes twice". Much better feedback.
Some of the creature upgrades in WOG changed the way those creatures were used (granted, many abilities were broken but hey, it was fun!). Experienced Gorynyches were fliers that could attack all adjacent enemies twice and not suffer retaliations. Lords of Thunder got no obstacle and no range penalties at higher levels. Dragonflies at higher levels gained area attack. Those are the things that make one more interested in getting troop experience instead of x% more attack and y% more defense.
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Aigain: This is not about a "realistic" look in the way of High Definition, 3D and such, but that the figures in the game look rather...well, realistic, in opposite to f.e. a comic style. H3, in that case, had a quite realistic look.
I misunderstood. Totally I really liked the creature models in H3 and H5, especially when compared to H4. Though I have to say I'm partial to the H2 Phoenix. They were never able to top that one. Cartoony, sure, but BEAUTIFUL.
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--A reason to play on water.
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As long as you give no certain mechanic or at least idea for one, it's not a feature, really. Yet, I agree with you! Also, Quote:
-stepping in and out of boats -> movement costs + reminder instead of loosing the turn
would provide some more reason, yet you voted neutral...
Let me give some examples. Some creatures could gain certain bonuses/penalties for fighting on the sea. Pirates (neutral creatures) would get better stats in sea battles (more speed, +1 morale and always positive morale, a one-shot ranged cannon attack perhaps etc.). They might also increase their numbers per day (hiring more pirates though the amount would have to be fairly balanced and/or not be free). Some relatively frail creatures could get seasick.  Some mages could summon aquatic creatures when on the sea. Peasants could generate extra income per day when on sea (fishing? ) and so on and so forth. Just stop making water such an inhospitable environment for map progression. That's why I voted neutral for that movement cost + reminder issue because I want the whole water system to be revamped.
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-Ability to move more quickly between towns.
On large maps where the map creator hasn't placed convenient monoliths, going back to your base to learn new spells, get new creatures and artifacts etc. can easily take 5+ turns. Town portal with selectable town makes the hero way too powerful. Something in between should be available. Perhaps the ability to create a portal between two castles. Or perhaps the teleportation isn't instantaneous but instead takes a few turns (not 5+ or else walking is a simpler alternative). Perhaps you can make a "pipeline" (not literally :-P ) between castles that takes time to be built but allows you to move from one castle to another far more quickly.
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I like that Especially the tunnel idea. Coudl be a town building for each faction...like "Escape Tunnel" for Haven, "Infernal Road" for Inferno, "Path of the Dead" for Necros....for example.
With reference to the bridges-over-rivers discussion above, I realize that a counterpart to this thing also exists in the game, namely, conveniently placed monoliths. Yet so many mapmakers ignore it that I feel it should be available as a regular feature. Sorry if I sound hypocritical.
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-Upgrading troops that have joined you on the map.
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aaah, not sure
They would cost more than normal. You might also need to have that specific upgrade dwelling built in one of your towns. At the very least, if those troops are "looking for greater glory" we should at least be able to put them to SOME good use by sending them to a castle's garrison instead of disbanding them because we don't have space.
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-Day and night like disciples 3
Hard to implement into heroes!!!
Might be interesting. Day night cycles could affect certain spells, creatures. Some heroes abilities could make better use of night (the warrior in KB gave +6 attack/defense to his creatures at night). Some creatures could turn invisible at night. Not terribly important for the game but it's there...
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 12, 2010 05:06 PM |
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I would use a game like Civilization IV for a good example. Everything is kept in very organized XML data files (NOT like the H5 files, holy cow!) and the game mechanics are run by simple C++ scripts so you can change just about every aspect of the game.
Mods are kept in a mod folder that can be switched in game. The mod folder is identical to the original game data folder and you just include files you want changed in your mod, kind of like H5 except the ability to specify which mod is helpful instead of including every mod in every file :/
From what I've heard, they will do it right in HoMM6. Matter of fact, they may give the Map-Editor to us first. I doubt it was planned (early-on) to do that with H5 from, the POV of; it's like trying to learn greek to just tweek a map H5's M.E. has the feel of something tossed in the box at the last minute.
Make a great day
____________
"Do your own research"
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fulano
Known Hero
Can I link to my own avatar?
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posted October 12, 2010 07:49 PM |
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From what I've heard, they will do it right in HoMM6. Matter of fact, they may give the Map-Editor to us first. I doubt it was planned (early-on) to do that with H5 from, the POV of; it's like trying to learn greek to just tweek a map H5's M.E. has the feel of something tossed in the box at the last minute.
I've heard about the map editor but the rest is good to hear! Gads they better actually finish the game before they release it this time! I'm tired of fighting the map editor and searching through the messy data files.
Besides, if they make the game support mods it won't matter very much if they make it a good game or not. As long as it runs well people will make their own cool game.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2010 08:01 PM |
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developpers talked about units working in synergy, and since you can recruit all kind of units, the choice to make is how many of each of them you will hire.
I was thinking, the power of abilities affecting other creatures should depend on the ratio between the number of unit having the ability and the number of creatures being affected (it is already the case in H5 for almost all random abilities)
but I was thinking of an exemple with for example, shields others, aura of magic resistance or destruction magic magnetism :
let's say, each creature having one of those abilities can provide a maximum of 50% protection to an adjacent creature.
you have 10 guards with shields others surrounded by 10 marksmen. each marksmen receives 50% protection against ranged attack.
you have 20 guards with shields others surrounded by 10 marksmen. each marksmen receives 50% protection against ranged attack. (because of the limit)
you have 10 guards with shields others surrounded by 20 marksmen. each marksmen receives 25% protection against ranged attack. obviously, it is harder for each guard to cover 2 marksmen instead of only one.
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Mike80D
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted October 12, 2010 08:31 PM |
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Fauch, that's a good point. I think there should be limits & minimums to static special abilities.
As an example in homm5, I used to keep about 10 skeleton warriors (the alternate upgrade) back with my ranged. This enabled me to get their "shield others" ability while maximizing the amount of skeleton archers I had. It doesn't make any sense that there was no difference between 1 or 100 when it came to shielding others. I hope in H6 they fix this
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2010 11:09 PM |
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also, it would be logical that skeletons provide a lower bonus than swordsmen, since you can get more of them.
if you want to cover completely a huge creature, you would need twice as many units with shields others.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 13, 2010 12:19 AM |
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Well here's an idea for the sea thing, give each town the ability to build a Port as well as a Shipyard so that loading an army onto a ship from towns only takes a very small penalty. |You could also add an adventure-map building with the same function as well. The real issue I've found with the sea is that you can't actually do that much with it, I mean, sure, you can stick islands in it, but that's land again. As it stands, the sea at the moment is useful only for travel, and that's what has to change if you want the sea to become a more-used terrain. One way I could see of achieving this would be the use of micro-islands (like Hashima Island in the real-world) that are just big enough to stick a mine on, and so small that you don't actually have to unboard to attack them.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted October 13, 2010 11:14 AM |
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I really hope they make this game mod friendly! That would make me interested in buying it. Otherwise I'd probably wait until you can buy the game for $5 like I did with H5. I hope it won't be another game where you have to hack the data files to change anything.
Will add this to the miscallaneous-thing, since it's nto an ingame feature...
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I'm a bit confused. If you mean we should be able to build a bridge anywhere at a river, that might defeat the purpose of the river as thought by the map maker. If this option was to be available only at certain points, it's the same as the mapmaker placing a bridge blocked by a quest guard that only allows you to cross once you've paid a price - the "construction cost". The only difference between your idea and mine is the visual effect of a blocked/now-unblocked bridge vs. a plain-river/now-covered-with-bridge. It could be added but I think it's still achievable with what we have now.
It just means there ARE rivers, whcih are uncrossable (unclike, f.e., in H3) and that there ARE bridges - which are on the map from beginning. Nothing about building Also, there would be fords, but crossing a ford wouldn't be as good as crossing a bridge, probably slowing down your army, maybe with a minimal chance to kill a few weak creatures in the streams. It would add tactical decisions - do I take the ford, or the closest bridge, which would be a safer, but slower way...it coudl also be that you can be attacked at a ford...
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Let me give some examples. Some creatures could gain certain bonuses/penalties for fighting on the sea. Pirates (neutral creatures) would get better stats in sea battles (more speed, +1 morale and always positive morale, a one-shot ranged cannon attack perhaps etc.). They might also increase their numbers per day (hiring more pirates though the amount would have to be fairly balanced and/or not be free). Some relatively frail creatures could get seasick. Some mages could summon aquatic creatures when on the sea. Peasants could generate extra income per day when on sea (fishing?  and so on and so forth. Just stop making water such an inhospitable environment for map progression. That's why I voted neutral for that movement cost + reminder issue because I want the whole water system to be revamped.
For my tast, these features are a bit detailed, a bit to much on certain creatures...though I liek your ideas!
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They would cost more than normal. You might also need to have that specific upgrade dwelling built in one of your towns. At the very least, if those troops are "looking for greater glory" we should at least be able to put them to SOME good use by sending them to a castle's garrison instead of disbanding them because we don't have space.
sending them to the castle is a different and, for me, mcuh better idea!!!
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Might be interesting. Day night cycles could affect certain spells, creatures. Some heroes abilities could make better use of night (the warrior in KB gave +6 attack/defense to his creatures at night). Some creatures could turn invisible at night. Not terribly important for the game but it's there...
As long as we don't make it more WCish by having night elves Of course, I see that. But, for example, it woudl make it, imo, necessary, to reinvent the building system. It was allready hard to take that a capitol was build in one day...but in a few hours???
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Besides, if they make the game support mods it won't matter very much if they make it a good game or not. As long as it runs well people will make their own cool game.
I wouldn't mind if they made a good game anyway especially since not allways someone cares for translation into other alnguages than english...
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I was thinking, the power of abilities affecting other creatures should depend on the ratio between the number of unit having the ability and the number of creatures being affected (it is already the case in H5 for almost all random abilities)
but I was thinking of an exemple with for example, shields others, aura of magic resistance or destruction magic magnetism :
let's say, each creature having one of those abilities can provide a maximum of 50% protection to an adjacent creature.
you have 10 guards with shields others surrounded by 10 marksmen. each marksmen receives 50% protection against ranged attack.
you have 20 guards with shields others surrounded by 10 marksmen. each marksmen receives 50% protection against ranged attack. (because of the limit)
you have 10 guards with shields others surrounded by 20 marksmen. each marksmen receives 25% protection against ranged attack. obviously, it is harder for each guard to cover 2 marksmen instead of only one.
Find this an interesting idea!! Name?
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Well here's an idea for the sea thing, give each town the ability to build a Port as well as a Shipyard so that loading an army onto a ship from towns only takes a very small penalty. |You could also add an adventure-map building with the same function as well. The real issue I've found with the sea is that you can't actually do that much with it, I mean, sure, you can stick islands in it, but that's land again. As it stands, the sea at the moment is useful only for travel, and that's what has to change if you want the sea to become a more-used terrain. One way I could see of achieving this would be the use of micro-islands (like Hashima Island in the real-world) that are just big enough to stick a mine on, and so small that you don't actually have to unboard to attack them.
I liek the micro-island idea! there should just be more and mroe different Water buidligns (AM, differenet from land buildings...)
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Agent_00_BLeRD
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 13, 2010 12:58 PM |
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Expanding a bit more on to that water revamping concept:
---In Red Alert 3 (horrible, horrible game), they tried to make water a more feasible option by making many units amphibious and allowing almost all the buildings to be constructable on water as well. How would this fare into the heroes system? We have gold, lumber, ore and crystals (crystallized dragon's blood, I mean ;-) ) right? We could have aquatic counterparts to their mines:
Gold mine could be represented by a fishermen colony or a treasure hunters' guild: generates 1000 gold per day.
Lumber mill -> Ship graveyard: breaks down old ships lost at sea and gives you 2 lumber per day.
Ore pit -> coral formation perhaps? Gives 2 ore per day.
For crystals, you could have a volcano that spews out lava and, along with it, crystallized dragon's blood. A bit scientific but I think you get what I'm saying.
All these "mines" will only be reachable by ship. They might even give more resources than their land counterparts to make them more lucrative.
---Perhaps allow the mapmaker to place towns directly on water? That town will only be reachable by ship. Although this seems more like forcing a player to use water instead of inviting him...
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 13, 2010 02:26 PM |
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Well the answer shouldn't be making water more like land.
Water needs to move further away with more unique map objects I'd say rather then closer
Whilst I LOVE the concept of mini-islands (I mean I shouldn't need to unboard my entire legion's supplies to walk a few steps and pick up an artifact/flag a mine and possibly defeat the guards if any.
This is what I HATE about maps with many little islands, it costs you 2 turns just to get on and then off the island if it's small enough.
(otherwise you might still use some movement before boarding/unboarding.)
Boarding should just cost a set amount of movement, if you don't have enough left, you can still board but lose that movement at the start of your next turn that you didn't pay.
A little complex maybe but currently the game more or less rewards you with trying to reach your boat or landing site with as few movement points left, short distances on the other hand are punished SEVERALLY.
Also they could add multiple different kinds of boats that give various small benefits, like for example, one giving you cannons to use in a fight whilst on your boat, or slightly better speed, or slight bonus to morale or something else.
In addition to possibly having a slightly different shaped boat give a slightly different shape on your half of the combat arena when fighting on water.
Short version: Naval gameplay should, in my opinion, try to stay or be even more different to land-based, so long of course as it doesn't turn naval gameplay in a whole new game in itself.
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PeterFarkas
Adventuring Hero
LeBronTosaurus
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posted October 13, 2010 03:55 PM |
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also, it would be logical that skeletons provide a lower bonus than swordsmen, since you can get more of them.
if you want to cover completely a huge creature, you would need twice as many units with shields others.
+1.
The other amazingly funny thing was that 40+ cyclopes could kill 3-4 titans with 1 single goblin.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 13, 2010 04:01 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 17:31, 13 Oct 2010.
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The other amazingly funny thing was that 40+ cyclopes could kill 3-4 titans with 1 single goblin.
Obviously, the head cyclops with amazing aim threw a goblin so hard it actually penetrated a Titan and shot straight through him and penetrated 1 or 2 more before landing in the goblin shaped hole in the rear Titan's torso.
It was a legendary professional Goblin Ball player Cyclops with a killer pitch.
Also the Titans of course were a little silly lining up like that.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 13, 2010 04:47 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:52, 13 Oct 2010.
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People, you have to ignore the shallow facts that cover the surface and to reach further below, to the depth of the Goblin mysteriousness and hidden godlike destructive powers. Each goblin is actually a latent tactical nuke. Each Cyclops is a latent ballistic missile launcher. The Wizards discovered this by accident when they created the Orcs, which is one of the actual reasons why the corpses available to the Necromancers are so abundant. Therefore it's incorrect to think of the Goblin as of simple organic projectile that disintegrates on impact (actually it explodes quite violently, but Nival, who are part of the conspiracy, concealed this via a simple fake animation). It's not so stupid as it looks if you just think a little. Everything in this world (and in Ashan) happens for a reason after all.
Note: The plutonium goblins, codenamed "Witch-Doctors" are more destructive than the uranium goblins, known as "Trappers". Know the difference, it might spare you the second head and the third arm.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted October 13, 2010 05:30 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 17:30, 13 Oct 2010.
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The above theory of the volatile Goblin is also a reason, researchers claim, that Cyclopses have such unusual physical traits.
You see, generations of Biclopses who were much smaller and had only two eyes had feasted upon goblins for their high nutritional value and being one of the rare few food types that could power bodies such as theirs which required something as potent as a nuclear energy source.
However, these many generations of exposure have led to various birth defects both beneficial and malicious, most telling being the loss of a second eye.
I hope we've enlightened you all into the unique relationship of these two mysterious species.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 13, 2010 06:21 PM |
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Besides, if they make the game support mods it won't matter very much if they make it a good game or not. As long as it runs well people will make their own cool game.
That is exactly what I 'think', but YOU posted it!
to the 100th power
Make it great
____________
"Do your own research"
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 13, 2010 06:33 PM |
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I hope we've enlightened you all into the unique relationship of these two mysterious species.
Here's another concerning the Cyclop. I just read that the 'one-eye' came from the trade of Alchemy. They would wear a patch over one eye to protect 'sight'. Explosion trying to make Gold? Still have one eye Haven't a clue if the historian is right or not.
There's an variation-idea for H6. "Getting gold from somewhere else than a mine or town/hero."
____________
"Do your own research"
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted October 13, 2010 07:19 PM |
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There's an variation-idea for H6. "Getting gold from somewhere else than a mine or town/hero."
Liek what?^^
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 13, 2010 08:01 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:23, 13 Oct 2010.
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Well for water there could be new battlefields (ship-land battles, ship-town battles, river battles where you can wade across, etc.) I'm not sure what other map objects there could be, and I wouldn't like to see more than 2-3 ship types.
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Water needs to move further away with more unique map objects I'd say rather then closer
Any ideas?
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 14, 2010 02:35 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
There's an variation-idea for H6. "Getting gold from somewhere else than a mine or town/hero."
{/quote]
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Like what?^^
How about a gold mine 'that is run by an alchemist' and the longer you are his lord, the more gold he produces for you. That could be done with all mines. It could work in reverse too. If a mine is captured by an enemy, maybe it takes a bit for the mine to get back into full production. <IMO> That would mimic real life.
____________
"Do your own research"
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted October 14, 2010 03:57 PM |
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hmmm but that is still a mine, technically^^
Something different would be for example:
an alchemy skill which could for example, allow to turn mana into gold...or crystals into gold for mana.
Yet that would still be the hero...
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