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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 08, 2016 06:34 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 18:36, 08 Dec 2016.
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AlHazin said:
..."Markkur is...
KKK!
Now it makes more sense lol
Yeah, that could only be said in today's propaganda.
AlHazin said:
Just to add a brick to the problematic of defining religion, in Islam is used the word Deen to say "religion" yet it doesn't really mean "religion"... So islam is a "deen" and not a "religion", something that I'll be explaining to you in detail as soon as I have time.
Interesting.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 08, 2016 06:49 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:36, 08 Dec 2016.
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Markkur said:
The intense propaganda & distortion for every human purpose used during the last century has not fostered nor bettered understanding on many subjects.
Oh, yes, how everything was so accurately described in the good ol' 19th Century! While it's true some of the post-modern schools of thought are fashionable non-sense in terms of distorting rational categorizations, making such a generalization is mostly because you don't like something so personal to you, examined with an objective approach. You're not just following "the way" in the sense that a Confucian follows the teachings of Confucius or somebody subjectively reads and learns from Socrates etc, you also hold the belief that Jesus is a super-natural entity and that his teachings are literally divine. You conclude that the Romans transformed Christianity into something else (not 20th century  ), yet, your source book to the story and teachings of Jesus is the Roman Edition. You quote it verse by verse when it's necessary. Jesus did not personally guide you, you are reading/quoting an institutionalized version of his story, quite different from many of the earliest Christian sects.
And of course, a categorization such as Christian or religious will not summarize everything about you but then again, what would? Male? American? Grandfather? Tolkien fan? Follows the way? No description of our identity draws a complete picture of us, that doesn't necessarily make them inaccurate. You can say "religious" is too vague a term for even anything remotely accurate since there are many interpretations of the same religion but it is still accurate enough to tell you apart from a non-religious person and that's simply all it means anyway.
@AlHazin
The word Din (we use the same) and Religion come from different origins etymologically but there is not much semantic distinction between them in practical use. That would be like saying engineer comes from engine and muhendis comes from geometry, so they mean completely different things.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 09, 2016 03:23 AM |
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artu said:
...You're not just following "the way" in the sense that a Confucian follows the teachings of Confucius or somebody subjectively reads and learns from Socrates etc, you also hold the belief that Jesus is a super-natural entity and that his teachings are literally divine. You conclude that the Romans transformed Christianity into something else (not 20th century ), yet, your source book to the story and teachings of Jesus is the Roman Edition.
The "state-needs" for controlling the masses for the two most horrific wars in human history, took Propaganda to a new level and all major nations mastered the false narrative and since then, what was learned is used and expanded with new Techs into many directions. Of course I don't expect you to believe that, you want and do dispute everything I say.
And btw,I have used a Greek new-testament for many, many years. And Rome?...it proved the enemy and I have explained why. Fact. But again you can't run with that either.
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"Do your own research"
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted December 09, 2016 03:46 AM |
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The thumbprint of reality is strong and scattered mong 1000s of world mysteries.
surely there is a greater and I believe in a divine origin.
Aztec spaceship drawings,
star child cranium
the ruins of those multi ton granite blocks cut laser precision
pyramids
prei Reis map
naztec lines
neutrinos
Gilgamesh biblically referenced and his epic, oldest translated story known to us spoke of space travels,
etc etc
honestly y'all I don't pay attention to details but I think we all know there are thousands of details
I personal believe the story of Christ is with us for a reason but I have trouble believing the bible was not modified to say Jesus is the only way.
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What are you up to
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 09, 2016 08:14 AM |
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@Markkur
My concern or motivation is not "to dispute everything you say" but you are way off track here, there were many oral traditions among Christianity in the beginning, some didnt have a Trinitiy, some didn't cosider Jesus as the son of God but just a prophet, some considered the teachings exclusive to Jews... Whether you read in Greek or Latin is not the point, the collection of texts you hold in your hand is the final decision of a Roman Council. And whether you call it "the way" or not, it fits the description of "a religion" perfectly. Calling Christianity a religion is a perfectly legit thing, it has nothing to do with "evil states" or "20th century propaganda" or whatever you have in mind.
Btw, the reason the word religion has rather bad associations compared to the past has absolutely nothing to do with state propaganda either, politicians always mumble on about how they respect every religion and so on. The reason for that is, more and more people realize the issues religiousity as a mindset can produce, since it involves stretching out reality in absurd lengths to justify an absolutely subjective faith's dogmatic propositions. Calling all academic research and social sciences "20th century evil state propaganda" would be an overwhelmingly good example of that.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 09, 2016 05:55 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 17:57, 09 Dec 2016.
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artu said:
1.My concern or motivation is not "to dispute everything you say" but you are way off track here,
No friend. I'm afraid you are not the world's authority about something you do not know.
artu said:
Btw, the reason the word religion has rather bad associations compared to the past has absolutely nothing to do with state propaganda either,
Wow man. As if a "State-sanctioned Church - that existed for centuries that spewed their people-control" did no damage to the meaning and credibility of that misguided institution. You know better...stop grabbing.
Again, you are so anti Faith and so biased because of that fact, you assumed I was mixing the word Propaganda with Religion and that was all I was talking about. The only connection I made was that Religion is a WORD and in a world that is heavily tainted today by Propaganda-purposes (which uses words) Religion is also in that mix...because it is a freakin' WORD.
And further, all that I said about the umbrella "Religion" was point-blank about me personally, how "I see" that word and how I could be accurately perceived, still not seen correctly or understood and the example I gave was a very simple one that is true. And btw, maybe ask Tsar if he was seeking at least one Christian's opinion on what he asked? I gave him mine...eos.
Goodness man. i.e. I've been called & thought a NAZI or RACIST because I am auto-LABELED Alt-Right because the real Right is NOT the Right and much I what I hold dear about Society is not represented by the new LEFT because BOTH are yo-yos for the Elite. Like Religion, Politics is ultra BS today and means very little. People tell LIES and claim it TRUTH, they promise GOOD and are evil greedy damn parasites.
That was an example not intended for veering discussions. Words man. Religion is a Word like Politics and they are catch-all phrases that embody emotion and paradigms far more today than facts.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 09, 2016 06:28 PM |
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I'm aware of your complaint, it really doesn't take to be an authority to object to your "solution" though. The word religion may be wrapped in a lot of non-sense or negative association (the negative associations are not undeserved in all of the cases, imo) but that doesn't make the word itself meaningless or inaccurate for people who still use it accurately. So, the question of "what constitutes a religion" kind of has to revolve around the word... religion
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted December 09, 2016 07:06 PM |
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Word religion is non precise. Religion of what? Money? Eg. banksters.
Maybe cult is better for this. Baa Moo Eep Honk cultist. Its pathology.
Religion word is only correct for God.
So we talk about spiritual sense. One God Creator Mundi.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 09, 2016 09:20 PM |
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Ghost, get out from that body.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 09, 2016 09:58 PM |
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IDK, but you know Ludwig Feuerbach, Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, Friedrich Nietzsche, and other progressed theories that weakened faith in the God. The word of God is a pentecostal doctrine, but "The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4New International Version, NIV)
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted December 09, 2016 10:40 PM |
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They are different people.
Feuerbach is real philosopher. Freud is real scientist. Marx was mythoman. Nietzsche lost his mind but is philosopher.
They cant see God because theyre blind. They dont search God but his own. With philosopher is big problem. His proud.
God in not visible using senses so scientist cant find them using their methods. Hes Spirit. Road to him is spiritual.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 09, 2016 11:33 PM |
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Yes, it's a pity Feuerbach, Freud, Nietzsche and Marx lack your eagle eyes.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted December 09, 2016 11:47 PM |
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In response to someone wishing for the swift return of Christ.
Quote:
No thanks, I'd rather wait for the true prophet of Judaism to finally come, I'd even take the Baalzebub over Christ any day. Christ has no wish for there to be a kingdom of heaven on earth, his one simple desire is our "salvation", while I respect him he doesn't serve the interests of this world, while Satan does. People misconstrue Satan as evil because he doesn't serve god's interest, but we have to remember that Christ and God have no interest in the suffering of the material. Diseases, sickness and death are afterall the road by which we arrive in heaven so when people say oh why does god allow so much death, the logical answer is wtf that's idiotic of course he wants his followers to die so they may join him in heaven, (as for others death has little bearing in the great scheme of things anyhow) just look at what happened to Christ, killed and resurrected to show people just how pointless life and death on this world is. There is no concept of good and evil, no deed is so damning that it's not washed away by death and rebirth, our existence on this world is only worth as much as we make it.
Of course you can always go down the Buddhist route and simply rejoin with the energy source of the material world: Nirvana.
Also to clarify the illuminati does not serve Satan per-se, they serve the messiah of this physical realm who is the fallen angel Lucifer and he is the one the Jews have been waiting for over two millennia, not to turn our world into a living hell (which is what it is now) but to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth (people thought this is what Jesus was doing but that's wrong, Jesus rejected the crown he wanted nothing to do with the material world simply beckoned people to join him in paradise). God does not answer your prayers not because he is callous but because in his eyes the material temporary existence of humans is simply insignificant as are their material desires, especially when you compare it to the eternal nature of paradise (ty to wrap your head around the concept of eternity, a lifetime is less than a single grain of sand in a desert). In the end neither god nor satan are evil, they just have different priorities, one sees the material world as a waste of time and a mere gateway to the eternal while the other seeks to make the material world home. It's up to individuals to make up their minds on what they want good/evil morals play little part in it, simple individual desire and freedom...choose ^^
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 10, 2016 12:12 AM |
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artu said:
I'm aware of your complaint, it really doesn't take to be an authority to object to your "solution" though.
You have to be kidding?
My "Solution" as you called "my personal and individual response to the simple question" is NOT and never was said to be "A Solution" - not once. It was my personal answer and not a jot more. But apparently for some reason, you cannot and will not except that.
Back up and look at when I was asked "Then should the word Religion not be used?" And how did I respond; "Who would "I" think "I" would have to be, to say Yes or No?
I cannot believe you have worked so hard to make something that is my single personal opinion (for me only) that has zero to do with directed you or anyone else here...into a debate.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted December 10, 2016 12:40 AM |
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@Marky
Quote:
Obviously one cannot maintain that there is no difference whatsoever between Buddhism in China of the 8th century and Buddhism in Ceylon of the 20th century. This implies that we cannot speak of an identity between these two phenomena...No empirical phenomenon can, therefore, be identical with any other than itself’ (Hubert Seiwert, 1986: 2).
This isn't just religions across eras and different locations it's on an individual basis, religions aren't monolithic rigid structures. They are a web of closely linked identities and closely linked interpretations of scripture by individuals. So I happily accept your religious identity, I hope it serves you well, it will be interesting to the extent which your interpretation can be linked to others to form common understandings (of course no two phenomena can be identical and they don't need to be, they merely have to be sufficiently similar).
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 10, 2016 12:49 AM |
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Edited by artu at 00:54, 10 Dec 2016.
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Dear Markkur, look at what I have quoted from you specifically in my objection:
Markkur said:
The intense propaganda & distortion for every human purpose used during the last century has not fostered nor bettered understanding on many subjects.
Now, you ask what does "Markkur is religious" or "Markkur is Christian" tells about you, you continue, TO PINPOINT "Markkur follows the way." is much more accurate. It's not. Let me try to rephrase my point, a film director may like to call himself "a dream maker" and this expression may be his artistic preference on explaining why he does what he does. But it wouldn't be more descriptive objectively, say, when he's filling out a form, writing down his occupation. As I already mentioned, no single sentence can explain who you are and why you make the choices you make as a person, like a novel would anyway but for someone who knows nothing about you, both Christian and religious are words that are more precise than "he follows the way." Somebody may think of Jesus as an important figure, he can follow his teachings, yet may not believe in the mythological aspects of his story such as his miracles or him being the son of God. (Remember Jefferson?). You also believe in the super-natural lore of Jesus and the word religious is objectively accurate in this regard to describe you, whether you dislike the political associations that the word has taken on or not. Keep in mind that "he follows the way" can be just as vague, even more vague, if you are not there to explain in detail why you prefer such a term to the traditional one.
And what really matters to me is that some of the things that are criticized about religion are not "distortion or propaganda." You see them like that because you are religious yourself and you think the problem is not at the core, but to someone who doesn't have to justify such a core (say Nietzsche or Dawkins... etc), the target is not the peripheral problems but the concept of faith itself. You will disagree with that line of thinking naturally but that doesn't make it propaganda.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 10, 2016 07:05 PM |
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tSar-Ivor said:
@Marky
This isn't just religions across eras and different locations it's on an individual basis, religions aren't monolithic rigid structures. They are a web of closely linked identities and closely linked interpretations of scripture by individuals. So I happily accept your religious identity, I hope it serves you well, it will be interesting to the extent which your interpretation can be linked to others to form common understandings (of course no two phenomena can be identical and they don't need to be, they merely have to be sufficiently similar).
Tsar-afar,
TY, now that you have followed up with words that press a point, I gave "shared" with you my view about, all of that and quite simply. It is true that I am not alone in my thinking but what constitutes my Faith creates a Chasm between myself and the vast majority that come under some division of so-called Christianity.
I was not called to create a Sect I was called to follow Christ. Divisions were not mandated as if you were joining country-clubs. From behind my "overarching POV," every person on this Earth, no matter the label they assume in life as their identity, is a natural part of this true Church because the story of Christ is about all Mankind.
However, there is a caveat, Christ's Kingdom is not earthly, it is a Spiritual realm and therefore that is my Faith's domain, not man-made buildings nor groups of "like-thinkers". I have one responsibility and it is to first get myself right as I desire to be. Not Perfect, but always striving within my own self to not do damage to other souls in any manner, no matter what happens in this life. It has been a very difficult goal in a knee-jerk hateful world.
If I am to "Love my enemies" than it makes no sense to isolate myself from them in daily life. The only instruction to isolate myself was in the "act of prayer" and to stop praying in the public arena. Now doesn't that point to something? and is it not relevant to this discussion? Prayers are powerful tools for inner-change that become near worthless tools of show in the arena of public life.
There is another fork in this road however in addition to what I have tried to explain about my path in life and that is I detest "Cookie-Cutter-Christianity".
We each have at least one gift right?
We are all individuals correct? Meaning;
We have different beginnings and backgrounds.
We have different experiences and traits.
All of this should be a part of living the life of following Christ. "Be ye doers of the word and not hearers only". And that means people know matter who they are fit in by how they are. Some people are content to open doors for others. Some like to help people in need. Some people like to console lonely people. Some folks want to travel and see to needs around the world. But all of this life of the Church was intended to be lived in the world as we find it, NOT some segment filtered by man made division.
Tsar, if you do not already know this...as a wee bit of an exercise; Find the Church (building) that Jesus founded and then...go to "The Well" and read what he said to that woman who wanted to know where to worship.
@ Artu
There is nothing more I can relate to you, except repeat;
That last paragraph about Propaganda in this world was directed towards WORDS and I meant all WORDS. I was NOT in "defend my Religion mode"...not even one nanosecond. Yes, it is true Religion is a word but one last time I was NOT mixing the two for that purpose or it would have been in the body of the small meaningless (meaningless & using myself to prove my point) example that I gave above it. I gave my take on the near <imvho> meaningless word Religion and then as a last thought separately mentioned the source of why most all communications today are jumbled BS between fake-names and Avatars. Text and smileys no matter the intent are never going to replace the embedded quality of face to face discussions etc. and I gave 1 reason why. I hope this finally clears up a discussion about "my intent".
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 10, 2016 07:29 PM |
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Well, in the beginning was the word... Joking aside, a face to face with you would be a really interesting experience, I guess. Probably never going to happen, if I ever visit the U.S. again, I'll drop a notice here. 
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted December 10, 2016 07:44 PM |
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Hit the nail on the head. Christ was never about his and his own he loved and cared for even those that rejected him for their own salvation (st peter) or for eartly reward such as Judas. He even loved those that professed him as their enemy nsmely the Jews. The reason i don't follow Christianity is because i wish for kingdom of heaven on earth.
From god and christ's perspective life on earth is like the matrix or a game. Things may appear important or suffering dire to us but in reality they are not, they're illusions. Now spiritual suffering is something else the suffering of the soul. I've only ever experienced it once i was having a normal casual day and then i had a passing thought can't even remember what but i cried for the first time in years tears pouring down my face.It had nothing to do with my current life or any action i did i forgotten something extremely important but extremely painful. I can't even begin to imagine what. The emotion can be likened to ouliving all those that loved you and you've loved, being forgotten but lingering on but that's simply nothing to do with me not even had any close relatives or friends die or abandon me.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 10, 2016 08:08 PM |
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artu said:
Well, in the beginning was the word... Joking aside, a face to face with you would be a really interesting experience, I guess. Probably never going to happen, if I ever visit the U.S. again, I'll drop a notice here.
I can promise you that should you ever appear at my humble-abode I will treat you "better than gold" for you are infinitely more precious that coin.  Well, as long as you do not turn and flee at the sight of my humble-abode and I am left vainly hobbling after you shouting "but, but" as I watch your butt disappear over the horizon.
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This thread is pages long: 
