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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 24, 2013 01:24 PM |
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Yes but they were implemented differently in wog. I like this way, otherwise would be impossible to use them on big armies and you would need anti-magic every time you fight.
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted March 24, 2013 03:30 PM |
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Well it makes Immunity worth more and the difference between AD (usually gets Immunity 3 + Fire) and Demon becomes clearer, since the only thing I feel like Immunity 3 and 1 serve now is prevent you from being Slowed.
And since Angelic Alliance is allowed it means that we can get Prayer + Bless buffs in the first turn without wasting any cast turns, cool.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted March 24, 2013 03:34 PM |
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10% means awfuly long period of time in the Cave for the Alliance.
Would be good if it becomes 15 or 20.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted March 24, 2013 03:41 PM |
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Quote:
10% means awfuly long period of time in the Cave for the Alliance.
Would be good if it becomes 15 or 20.
Not if you play MoE faction. Put one teleport shrine next to Dragon Cave, one next to Oasis, voila, farm all day every day.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted March 24, 2013 04:11 PM |
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Placing shrine near Oasis is excelent idea,which I would use for my future play with MoE.
But doesn't it take real hours/days of play till you get the helm,sword,shield,necklace and boots?
I admit though that the sword and shield are already at Damacon's castle ready for you to pick up when you visit the tent,but still a lot of dragon slaughtering awaits you before you aquire the needed components.
The good side is the leveling side,though.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 24, 2013 04:12 PM |
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Exactly, MoE has some advantages in logistic, I expect to get the 10 alchemist heroes at level 70 in no time due to shrines. Personally I fight the dragons cave only one day in whole game, angelic alliance is good middle game, but by that time you already have double cast.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted March 24, 2013 08:07 PM |
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Edited by OvidiuG at 20:11, 24 Mar 2013.
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Hey,
Been playing MoS lately and I hit a brick wall. Zydar in month 5 w 2. I got 850 ADs and 5k ish demons which are not to be taken into consideration now.
Anyway, can't find a working strategy for that hero. My AD's are killing like 950 Cyclops in 1 hit he keeps casting Cure, after Forgetfulness . (I would do the same  )
So any thoughts?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 24, 2013 08:15 PM |
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850? Lucky with levels were you, I fought him 5.1.2 and had only 531.
Anyway, he is indeed a brick and must have luck to win that battle. I mean fear ability must work at least once every round, which is not really luck as it should. First turn I destroy the middle stack with frenzy and place inside the big efreet stack (600). Other stacks of 5 block around. Efreets have cast twice and rebirth, all cyclops will rush in center to destroy the big stack, thus they are easier to block from there.
Still, fight is very risky, if cyclops keep getting morale, is over, a single shot kills all devils. My thumb rule is to keep hit a stack until it dies, don't spread damage around, as 5 cyclops alive can kill one efreet which blocks a 2500 cyclops stack. In general is hard to give universal advice, as it mainly depends on how you upgraded things, do you have fear, do you have frenzy at 30% at least, rebirth etc.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted March 24, 2013 08:30 PM |
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Edited by OvidiuG at 21:10, 24 Mar 2013.
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Ok, sounds good, will get the efreets along, was having only 30 for blocking reasons, and they were not enough, Then I thought demons will help but they are to weak at this stage. And then I wrote here
So thanks, should work with that strat
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 25, 2013 12:32 AM |
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MoS finished, I will release final after I add all new infos in read me txt. I changed almost all late battles, more than twice harder but still doable with bonuses.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 25, 2013 01:14 AM |
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So it gets even harder now?
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2013 02:50 AM |
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Quote:
So it gets even harder now?
Well kinda expected, Caves of God bonus change affects the game a lot. Before sometime it gives tiny random stats, sometime resources, sometime random monsters like Efreets with very low number. Now they give only resources until you have Fire bonus and then they give only Devils or Familiars.
Then the Special Level bonus, while the bonus is random, there is a test method. Sacrifice one hero, let him have 49 Battles, throw him in whatever towns. New week => take him out => make a save name "Test" for example => let him have one battle to see the bonus of the week. If yes then load the Test save, if no then load the autosave from last week and keeps doing it until you get the right bonus.
In addition, all factions receive some sorts of buffs: MoE gets x2 cast start, no Dispel, Blind,etc. MoS heroes get Travel Pack which gives Boot of Speed, Gloves and Admiral Hat, all lighthouse activate right at start, bonus Mithril after each CB fight for the same Hero. MoW and MoD receive little change but they are extremely strong to begin with. There are also some all across the game buffs like Caster Slow => Poison, Fearless ability, Bless Enchanted, Angelic Alliance allow, etc etc. I say it feels like a brand new map now.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted March 25, 2013 09:33 AM |
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Tried Zydar last night, for about an hour, without luck.
My army is 850 ADs (they have attack and return, Fear, Immunity 1, Fire Immunity, reduce Defense, class attack increased to 65,)
400 ish main stack of Sultans, rest of slots being 5 of each. I realized they are rather few. I didn't convert any 6th lvl dwelings mainly cos lack of gold, and when I played master of Wealth I didn't actually use efreets on main hero. Sultans have resurrect and additional casts.
I have the possibility to get Double dmg on devils (as in I have the mithril) , I invested about 500 mithril into attack, w/o any difference into dmg, probably to little attack compared to target defense to make a difference, so I can load and use that mithril into something else. (like getting another castle, My next castle conversion requires 640 mithril)
1st round I use 40% Frenzy on ADs and attack central stack of Cyclops, leaving about 950 alive which I attack with main stack of sultans, who kill 350 of cyclops leaving 600 ish alive . in the same round AI kills the main stack of sultans including the resurrected ones+some of the 5 stacked. Round 2 I clone ADs and attack a different stack of cyclops while clone kills what remained of 1st stack. and continue casting clones and praying for morale.
my best attempt was when I got a double morale on my Ad's or it's clones and a few fears kicking in leaving with 3 full stacks of cyclops alive. A single morale on cyclops at that step ruined my whole luck.
From the Screenshot Valery submitted I noticed the Green color Devils meaning after 1st round Frenzy he casts bless + prayer? I thought about that but the dmg ramp up is rather slow, I didn't have gold to upgrade more than 1% on both at this stage. and the clone alone kills 500 ish cyclops + requires a hit every round, so I thought that casting Clone is better than buffing AD's
my hero skills are 93 att, 55 def , or 87 att 61 def .
So is something I do wrong? Is this fight a luck test? I never seem to get enough Morale and Fears (I've got +7 Morale)
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted March 25, 2013 09:48 AM |
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Quote:
Tried Zydar last night, for about an hour, without luck.
My army is 850 ADs (they have attack and return, Fear, Immunity 1, Fire Immunity, reduce Defense, class attack increased to 65,)
400 ish main stack of Sultans, rest of slots being 5 of each. I realized they are rather few. I didn't convert any 6th lvl dwelings mainly cos lack of gold, and when I played master of Wealth I didn't actually use efreets on main hero. Sultans have resurrect and additional casts.
I have the possibility to get Double dmg on devils (as in I have the mithril) , I invested about 500 mithril into attack, w/o any difference into dmg, probably to little attack compared to target defense to make a difference, so I can load and use that mithril into something else. (like getting another castle, My next castle conversion requires 640 mithril)
1st round I use 40% Frenzy on ADs and attack central stack of Cyclops, leaving about 950 alive which I attack with main stack of sultans, who kill 350 of cyclops leaving 600 ish alive . in the same round AI kills the main stack of sultans including the resurrected ones+some of the 5 stacked. Round 2 I clone ADs and attack a different stack of cyclops while clone kills what remained of 1st stack. and continue casting clones and praying for morale.
my best attempt was when I got a double morale on my Ad's or it's clones and a few fears kicking in leaving with 3 full stacks of cyclops alive. A single morale on cyclops at that step ruined my whole luck.
From the Screenshot Valery submitted I noticed the Green color Devils meaning after 1st round Frenzy he casts bless + prayer? I thought about that but the dmg ramp up is rather slow, I didn't have gold to upgrade more than 1% on both at this stage. and the clone alone kills 500 ish cyclops + requires a hit every round, so I thought that casting Clone is better than buffing AD's
my hero skills are 93 att, 55 def , or 87 att 61 def .
So is something I do wrong? Is this fight a luck test? I never seem to get enough Morale and Fears (I've got +7 Morale)
Upgrading Damage >>>>>> Upgrading Attack. Each Attack Higher than Enemies' defend (for example your AD has 11 Atk and enemy has 10 Def) gives 5% bonus damage. And thus higher base (damage) gets better bonus from Atk. Plus there is a cap between Atk and Def gap (like 300% increase max, which is 60 Atk difference IIRC). I'm quite sure about the cap. Test with Prayer against a slow neutral unit, even if I have 10000 Atk the damage is still the same as when I have 100 Atk. Your Hero already have 93 atk, and Reduce Def, upgrading Atk more is just redundant. Always max damage and Health first (since Health scale with % bonus from Ace level and Air upgrade).
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted March 25, 2013 10:09 AM |
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Never got into doing these kind of tests because yeah, first time I ever get the chance to play God with my creatures and modify their natural stats. and as far as understand math, increasing dmg is more effective on bigger stacks so when having 300 AD's and 300 mithril is + 9 dmg better than 10 attack ? Probably , possibly, as I said, didn't have the chance/curiosity to test.
Anyway the fight was done with 530 AD's and I doubt those did more dmg than 850 ADs, shouldn't be possible to have that much mithril to make a difference at this stage of the map.
So it stands into tactic rather than brute force. Like 98% of this map.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 25, 2013 10:14 AM |
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I never invest a single mithril into attack until very late game when I don't know where yo put mithril in. Damage always. Alisapa knows this as he already played Time of Prophecy, based on increasing damage for the single creature we have all the game.
MoS is the hardest faction so far, you move far away and do the battles much sooner than others. Try MoW first to get how mithril must be invested optimally, then you are ready for MoS. I don't know what to advice else.
My Zydar save if you want to compare. Looks like 531 devils did much more damage than 800 because of damage boosted. It also pays to get luck and leadership expert as I had, visit bonus locations before the fight, I had luck and morale several times in that battle. But still spent one hour to reload until all ok. If you reload move devils in another slot, to change the seed.
Quote:
let him have one battle to see the bonus of the week. If yes then load the Test save
I must admit I did it once before wystan as I need mithril terribly. But I changed the stats bonus to +10 all to make it more interesting.
I will probably remove the "new skill" bonus because I noticed I was never happy when it came out.
Hard to find 4-5 bonuses which are all equally interesting. On the other hand, if someone plays MoW he may consider +5 tiles movement more helpful than mithril because it lasts all game.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted March 25, 2013 10:44 AM |
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I finished MoW.
I got the attack part wrong. Makes sense what you explained, lost a couple hundred mithril to that. I could load a month earlier or a check pre Wystan (that is like 2 weeks before) and go full dmg.
I progressed rather good in MoS, I lost 4 days on Rissa because her titans got hatred vs. AD's and I thought I don't stand a chance. so I attacked her next week day 1, and that is my overall delay compared to Valery's progress.
Still . before reloading to an earlier stage, How much +dmg you've got on Zydar, Valery? How many Cyclops were those 530 AD's killing? You Blessed em? or cloned?
I got 6 towns I think, I kept delaying converting another one because buffing my Devils seemed more important. Also because the new towns don't recognize the existing converted dwellings so I end up investing hundreds of mithril for a mere of 3 more devils/week. How many Towns you got in MoS ? I use instead my alter heroes to collect every devil/imp every week.
I admit MoS requires a deeper knowledge of the map and most of fights seem impossible at fist glance. I also understand that balancing these fights can be tricky and you might getting into a brick wall sooner or later.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 25, 2013 10:52 AM |
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I uploaded zydar save so you can compare damage. I know new converted towns do not recognize dwellings, this is a thing no one was able to fix. But you will find tens of new dwellings later so you 9th town (the max I advice for having market place effective) will still pump 15 devils/week, see the pic.
As for Zydar, keep in mind that every buff gets dispelled instantly so use frenzy always, zydar counter helps to ignore the backside of. If he uses cure instead (hard to predict), go for prayer or clone even better. Modified frenzy will work only once in the battle, still the regular does much more damage. Zydar has only two spells, cure and dispel (dispel is removed if MOE), this is why he is so hard to defeat.
With MoE, Zydar is a clown. All you need is one creature 12 speed in your army (sharpshooter). His cyclops get turn, he casts cure, you get turn, you cast forgetfulness.
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Era II mods and utilities
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted March 25, 2013 11:04 AM |
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yes ofc, I know that from MoW.
Is a matter of choosing what to do with the mithril when you have it. On long term is an investment, though you need the dmg also and because the pace at which you discover the map puts you against bigger and bigger armies.
So convert 7th town means 640 Mithril , doing that in month 4 week 3 is better than + dmg upgrades x 6? It didn't matter that much in MoW...
What about next one which requires 1200 mithril or close to 1k, can't remember exact numers.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 25, 2013 11:08 AM |
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I had already 9 towns when battling Zydar. But I cheated once before wystan and reload autosave to get mithril bonus, don't do that 
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Era II mods and utilities
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