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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 06, 2013 08:13 PM |
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How about a champion War Oliphant like this for Stronghold:
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 06, 2013 09:04 PM |
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Not a bad idea, although I'd honestly prefer something a bit more rhino-ish, an elephant just seems a bit too dignified to me.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 06, 2013 09:15 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:15, 06 Nov 2013.
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This is probably my last faction entry for the time being. Fortress, sylvan and dungeon have not been prominently featured in a game since H5 so all we have on them in the official site and the Ashan compedium. I'll feature them when I have more info at my disposal, for now I present you sanctuary 
SANCTUARY
Sanctuary's core themes are outmaneuvering, facing opponents one by one, honourable fighting, promoting a champion unit to challenge the opponent, martial mastery, foresight and fearlessness.
The nagas are a curious bunch when it comes to gameplay and tactics. They are all about control, sending a champion unit to challenge the opponent's strongest unit and buy time for the rest to build up all the while protecting their support units. They take things slow and keep gaining momentum until the opponent can no longer keep them in check. Both H6 and DoC highlights their reliance on board control, mobility and unconventional fighting though their special abilities come at the cost of raw stats in the latter. I believe that this is due to DoC balance and that they would be tougher in a future heroes game, much like in H6. An army that relies on board control should have lasting power for their tactical planning to unfold. Of course I would not expect them to be death machines either as that would work against their strategy and the nagas are not the kind of race that goes on a killing spree. Instead I'd expect a more refined form of fighting with strong support and ways to divert or outflank the opponent's forces to gain an edge. Their iron-will and fearlessness would probably translate to good morale and improved fighting when outmatched.
 
Overall they played fine in H6 though they should avoid the kind of first turn overkill that cleave and heroic charge allowed But that's a skill issue and not really related to the faction balance. Honour should probably be redesigned into something more believable and practical. In H6 its effect was pretty generic and its trigger felt unconvincing - it was like they were asking for a medal because they spread their attacks on more than one units.. In DoC, units with honour give extra attack to adjacent allies though this design owes its existence to the fact that most other races avoided closed formations due to aoe spells like fireball. The devs wanted a race that makes itself vulnerable to such spells but would get many benefits from doing so so this honour incarnation only suits DoC balance and not heroes. That said.. it might not be a bad idea for a sanctuary unit to have an aura of honour that makes nearby allies fight with more zeal. But I wouldn't mind if they promoted outmaneuver to a racial, so many interesting possibilities there. After all mobility and placement are the key to naga warfare.
Some notable doc cards:
 
Reinforcements out of hidden bases
 
Challenge and honour.
 
 
Spirituality.
 
 
Tricky tactics
 
Enchantments.
 
And spy reports.
Overall there is a lot on intelligence gathering, hidden reinforcements and hindering the opponent.
There are two notable subfactions, the Shanriya..
 
 
And the Sayama.
 
While I generally favour ice themes, desert nagas are looking damn good 
Other units..
 
 
 
 
Really like some of those. Not necessarily in a lineup but their design is great.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 06, 2013 10:45 PM |
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Elvin said:
This is probably my last faction entry for the time being. Fortress, sylvan and dungeon have not been prominently featured in a game since H5 so all we have on them in the official site and the Ashan compedium. I'll feature them when I have more info at my disposal, for now I present you sanctuary
Are you hinting something?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 06, 2013 11:10 PM |
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The next DoC addon shouldn't take long to release so there is a chance we might get a new faction. If not I'll still have additional info on the existing factions
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 06, 2013 11:28 PM |
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MattII said:
War-overlord said:
And because of the lack of evidence and/or precendence, I keep saying that drawing from mythology/demonology for the creation of Demons can and likely will be problematic.
Ah, and going by pure imagination won't?
Quite possibly imagination can be problematic. But people are more likely to accept it.
The H6-Cerberus debacle was in many ways due to not adhering to the commonly held quitessential Cerberus. It did "do right by" what a Cerberus is "supposed to be". When you create a Demon, or any creature, from scratch, not liking it has likely more to do with taste. People who dislike Juggernauts are far more likely to do so because it offends their taste, rather than offending their mental archetype of a Juggernaut.
Quote:
Quote:
For Demons to be recognised as such, they need to be identifiable als such. Chimeric beasts aren't easily identified as Demons by the common gamer.
Maybe not, but if you see something with three heads you can damn well guarantee it's not going to hanging around with elves or humans, and probably not even wizards. Making them red could help as well, as well as including an excess of horns, spikes and scales.
Possibly, and it would also dull the animalism of their individual parts. Making them more easily associable with Demons
@Elvin:
Are those Sayama Dune Prowlers Lake Naga? Because if so, it may be the first known image of one.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 06, 2013 11:45 PM |
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War-overlord said:
The H6-Cerberus debacle was in many ways due to not adhering to the commonly held quitessential Cerberus. It did "do right by" what a Cerberus is "supposed to be".
And if they'd called the blasted thing an Orthrus (which is what it was), no-one would have complained (except maybe about the fact that the Cerberus was more 'traditional'). Now to pull from the book I mentioned:
"Buné is depicted as a three-headed dragon, being his heads like those of a dog, a griffin, and a man (although according to some grimoires he has two heads like a dragon and the third like a man)."
Does that sound to you like the sort of creature that congenially worships angels?
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 06, 2013 11:46 PM |
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Elvin said:
The next DoC addon shouldn't take long to release so there is a chance we might get a new faction. If not I'll still have additional info on the existing factions
Definetly I'm dumb. You are using DoC artworks to analyse each damn faction!
We'll have to wait then.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 07, 2013 08:33 AM |
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MattII said:
Not a bad idea, although I'd honestly prefer something a bit more rhino-ish, an elephant just seems a bit too dignified to me.
This Oliphant does not look dignified 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 07, 2013 08:38 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 08:42, 07 Nov 2013.
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War-overlord said:
@Elvin:
Are those Sayama Dune Prowlers Lake Naga? Because if so, it may be the first known image of one.
Don't think so, they look too dry for that
@Storm_Giant
It's not so much about DoC, it's that some factions have not been featured since H5 at all so all we have on them is the official description. If Dark Messiah, clash of heroes or might&magic legacy had something more tangible I would happily share it.
@DoubleDeck
Oliphants are just mounts for cyclopes. With cyclops already being champion material, the former would seem a lame choice. As an elite though it might be cool. But still.. it's an elephant. There are more monstrous units out there.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 07, 2013 09:22 AM |
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DoubleDeck said:
This Oliphant does not look dignified
Not that one, no, but elephants in general, and rhinos are pretty aggressive beasties, and don't generally receive as much attention mythically as elephants.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 07, 2013 09:39 AM |
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Who cares about those if we can get a bad@ss behemoth 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 07, 2013 10:05 AM |
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Since no-one's actually sure what the behemoth looks like... Also, there's no saying it would have to be with any faction, it could easily be a high-end neutral.
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NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
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posted November 07, 2013 10:28 AM |
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@to those wanting more variety, options, sub-groups etc.
I'd want to simply point out that the more different races and sub-groups you add, the harder it is to balance the game and Ubisoft has a terrible track record of seeking balance.
Let me give you an example. In H6, which simply wasn't a balanced game, there are 6 races, that can be divided by might/magic and blood/tears affiliation. This gives us 24 different groups and 276 matchups (excluding mirrors). Nobody can balance 276 matchups. In DoC out of 42 heroes only around 10 I consider playable.
just my 2 cents.
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Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 07, 2013 10:47 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 10:48, 07 Nov 2013.
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NamelessOrder said:
I'd want to simply point out that the more different races and sub-groups you add, the harder it is to balance the game and Ubisoft has a terrible track record of seeking balance.
They don't have a great track record for bugless releases, never mind game balance.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted November 07, 2013 10:57 AM |
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Elvin said:
Who cares about those if we can get a bad@ss behemoth
Now we talking
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 07, 2013 12:33 PM |
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Elvin said:
Who cares about those if we can get a bad@ss behemoth
Hear hear!
MattII said:
NamelessOrder said:
I'd want to simply point out that the more different races and sub-groups you add, the harder it is to balance the game and Ubisoft has a terrible track record of seeking balance.
They don't have a great track record for bugless releases, never mind game balance.
^this
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 07, 2013 10:04 PM |
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I think I'm the only one here who hates Beho,...
A rhinophant epic champion.. thats my language... that I understan
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted November 07, 2013 10:08 PM |
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Personally, I think Oliphaunts or rather Mammoths are more something for the Dwarves.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 07, 2013 10:12 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Personally, I think Oliphaunts or rather Mammoths are more something for the Dwarves.
Completely agree, but that still doesn't exclude them for being used in a Stronghold army.
Still, Oliphant or any kind of larger/stronger/more evil animal just doesn't fit in the champion theme, and I find them boring(hence, I even find normal Dragons boring, I was very excited when Necro finally didn't get Bone Dragon as a champion unit, but that is just me).
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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