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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 07:11 PM |
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As far as I see this, everyone in the Heroes community, every fan of the series is unsatisfied with the Necro elite line-up, including me. I personally loathe H6 lich and vampire. Have no problem with Lamasu. Its stats and abilities were weak but I have no problem with it aesthetically.
It's impossible for devs to miss this total chaos. They are definitely aware what this cheap copying-from-the-previous-game caused. So, does anyone think we have a chance that we will have some changes?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted January 25, 2015 07:12 PM |
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Ubi-Nox said he will discuss with the devs Monday.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 07:16 PM |
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Really? Great!
If we get unlucky with the Liches, I just hope they don't have that remote control animation again when they shoot.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted January 25, 2015 07:23 PM |
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There was mentioned on blog or on HC that all necro units will have new animations.
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raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted January 25, 2015 07:38 PM |
bonus applied by Elvin on 26 Jan 2015. |
Edited by raenus at 20:00, 25 Jan 2015.
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Hello everyone. I have viewed this site for a while but this will be my first time posting.
Shortly after they revealed the Necropolis's elite and champion units I realized that I had a lot to say about them. Not to hate on them but to explain to people why it was so disappointing to so many people. So I spent the next two days working feverishly on my opinions in my biography and told people to go there rather than fill up the comment section with spam. I never planned on it going any farther than that but then Galaadle suggested I post them here and I figured what the hell. So without further ado I present (and please do forgive me for how long it is, but as I said I had a LOT to say)....
My Opinion on the Decline of Necropolis and HoMM Lore in General from HoMM3-7.
**Disclaimer, these are my personal thoughts on why the old Necropolis was far more interesting and just plain cool before it got a hard on for its Spider Mother. View them as nothing more than the crazed ramblings of a particularly stupid individual**
As MMH7 stands now it will have (by my reckoning) 3 "Good" Factions, 5 Neutral Faction, and 1 Evil Faction. Also every faction is FAR too religious but I will get back to that later.
Haven--Good--Elrath
Sylvan--Good--Sylanna
Sanctuary--Good--Shalassa
Academy--Neutral leaning towards Good--Sar-Elam
Fortress--Neutral leaning towards Good--Arkath
Necropolis--Neutral leaning towards Good--Asha The Creator of Ashan
Stronghold--Neutral--Mother Earth and Father Sky although in MMH6 Ylath was implied
Dungeon--Neutral just trying to survive as they put it--Malassa
Inferno--Evil--Urgash
Now this leaves a huge vacuum, there is no real threat other than renegades and splinter factions. This coupled with the fact that EVERY faction is now incredibly religious leaves the campaign story feeling a bit uninspired. The Ubi team need look no farther than the governing Dragon God to find the reason for conflict. It just feels lazy and lackluster to me.
Compare this to HoMM3 where you had 2 "Good" Factions, 4 neutral Factions, and 2 evil Factions, none of which were too heavily religious. To me it left the campaign story more alive and interesting. Plus when Shadow of Death came out you got to play what was probably the coolest campaign arch I have ever seen. It was focused on playing as four faction all hired or otherwise compelled to find a set of evil artifacts and destroy them. However as it turned out all of the Heroes you just played as were being manipulated by Guess who? Sandro. After you beat those 4 campaigns it allowed you to play 1 campaign as Sandro with all of the artifacts you just gathered and by God it was satisfying.
What I am trying to get at here is that it is FUN to be the bad guy occasionally. This is something that the Ubi team does not seem to grasp. The MMH6 campaign was IMO the most dull and repetitive campaign in a Heroes game that I can recall, because every faction was just trying to do the same damn thing and Demons were ALWAYS the big bad guys.
Read this general description of Asha and tell me how she fits in with a race of exiled Wizards who basically sold their soul for power.
"While she is well-known as the "Dragon of Order", Asha appears in many different forms. Asha and Urgash fought against each other in the Genesis, during which Asha banished Urgash into the heart of her world. However, she was wounded in that battle, and hid in the moon in order to heal herself."
"Asha renders the fate of all mortal beings—she spins forth their destiny upon their birth, measures it throughout their time in the physical world, and then embraces their life force upon death. Asha is neutral; she shows favor to neither good nor evil men. She does not bless any race above another. Angels, Faceless, Elves, Dwarves, Humans and Nagas, all stand before her in equal measure. She does, however, hold her twin brother, the Dragon of Chaos, in eternal disdain and is opposed to the principles that drive both him and the demons, the beings he created to oppose her own."
"Today, Asha is worshipped by the Blind Brothers, Silent Sisters, White Weavers, Dragon Knights and Necromancers, in different forms and aspects. Asha herself rests in the moon and doesn't really know what happens on her beloved world. Every creature, except the demons and (mainly) the wizards of the Silver League, respect the worshiping of the Dragon of Order, except her aspect as Spider goddess."
They gelded the Faction to make room for them to tell a story of a "good" Necropolis. They decided that Sandro, who was the very essence of what an undead should be, needed to become an exile in order to make room for their Spider God.
Necropolis used to be a group of wizards that were exiled for using the darkest forms of magic possible for power. They were not united. They did not have a native country. They would only wage war in order to either gain more "recruits" or gain access to an artifact that they desired. They did not even work together unless they saw a way to use each other for power. This is something that I think MMH7 Desperately needs, a Faction with no qualms, ethics, or religion. A random card, unpredictable and devious, manipulative and sinister.
All of the religion that the various factions have gained of late leaves no unknown element. No wild card. Sure you can have internal conflicts in the various factions but their will end up being no outside influence, no surprises, and no mind-blowing man behind the curtain moments unless it come from Sandro. Sandro is the character this game needs. But they just keep trying to cram the Spider cult down our throats.
I still hope that maybe they will realize just what potential they have with him. Just what a goldmine of a character they have. For the right reasons they could make Sandro do ANYTHING. I will admit that they have used him quite well in recent games, but they need to allow us to BE him. He would NEVER worship a being other than himself and the lineup they are proposing just kicks you in the teeth with spidery goodness.
And now onto the unit designs.
-------CORE-------
SKELETON
Ok so this is where I have the single largest problem with a unit, worse than the lamasu, Lich, and Spider rolled together.
Let me start with explaining the playstyle that Necropolis has always favored. Quantity over quality. Necro has always been about massive number of inferior units. It makes them very entertaining to play as because they have such a unique style, and bringing back old-school Necromancy pleases me to no end. With it you will end up with literally thousands of skeletons raised through the skill.
So why do the skeletons have more impressive armor than my end-game lvl. 60 full raid gear paladin in WoW had? You are raising the corpses of the enemy off of the battlefield. When did you get the chance to equip them with what surely must be an expensive suit of armor?
The pauldrons are freakin huge and needlessly embellished with MORE skeletons.
The helm has these weird points that serve ABSOLUTELY no purpose other than to catch the enemies weapon therefore helping said enemy dispatch of the poor Skeleton.
The sword has a weird bend that I originally took for a scimitar shape (which would be awesome) but it just turned out to look like a very strangely bent dirk type weapon. Its shape is both impractical and again overly-ornate.
There are some MORE weird pointless spikes that either come out of the pauldrons or the back of the skeleton.
And bringing it all together is a nice custom-made shield and pair of boots.
If it were up to me I would scrap the upgrade, Make the old base the new upgrade, And modify the new base with maybe a broken sword and splintered shield or just less armor.
GHOST
Ok I have never liked a ghost. At all. Ever. So this is more or less what I was expecting. Maybe change a few colors but all-in-all, it is fine.
SPIDER
I am a rather rare breed of Sandro that would be okay with the spider if they fixed the skeleton, lamasu, lich, and vampire. Although I WAY prefer the base to the upgrade. The base is actually kind of cute.
-------ELITE-------
LAMASU
There is so damn much laziness going on in the elite section it hurts. And not only laziness but just plain disregard for the wishes of the fans. We told Ubi time and time again that the Lamasu is a freakin abomination. AND THEY GO AND NOT ONLY BRING IT BACK, BUT USE THE SAME MODEL????
Having said that, all I really want it a redesign. I would LIKE a new unit. Maybe a Flesh Golem or bring back the H5 Reaper and change the head and weapon of the grim rider. But I would be fine with an altered lamasu.
LICH
THIS IS NOT A LICH.
Let me start a list.
1. Your average Lich (not only in HoMM, but everywhere) has a skeletal face. They just DO. It makes them look badass and soulless. The fleshy face makes them look like a cross between someones Grandpa and a Meth addict. Maybe an addicted Grandpa. Not very impressive.
2. Take a look at its staff. He is not holding it like your average staff, more like he is about to beat on a kid he found on his lawn. It make the Lich look less regal and intelligent and more aggressive and violent.
3. Why is he floating?
4. With the floating combined with the spider legs on his back it makes them look like wings. Weird scrawny wings.
5. Any good Lich should have a book of the dead/spellbook.
VAMPIRE
All I can really say is that it looks like Arthas got a set of botox injections.
I would prefer either a noferatu type vampire or a female as mediczero suggests.
-------CHAMPIONS-------
GRIM RIDER
Ok now this is just awesome and proves that they could make an awesome Necropolis lineup. Its brilliance just rubs the mediocrity of the other units in your face.
BONE DRAGON
I am very, very scared about what the other dragons are going to look like now.
Ok so now I have exhausted everything I had to say. Thank you for sticking with it if you read all of it. But if you didn't no problem I had to get this off my chest anyway. These are just my personal observations on why this Necropolis is just disappointing. Feel free to critique my opinions and point out the bounty of errors I surely made.
So I leave you here a few brain cells shorter than you were before. Understand that my criticism really does come from love. Love of the franchise that we grew up on. We do not hate just because we can. we do it because we care, we care deeply.
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted January 25, 2015 10:38 PM |
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Pros
-Skeleton and dragon model is workable. When I see academy from pic to render there hope.
-Grim rider has potential
-The green on the unupgraded spider is successful and subtle
-Wraith is not clear but at least this way you stay away from the purple and green madness so I guess I'll put it here
Cons
-The spider is so cliche and boring. I prefer a classic zombie or mummy but since they chose this route a bone mammoth, death moth, corpse eater or undead foliage(can have any shape) would feel way less boring. Put the skeleton on the spider if you are lost in the void.
-Vamp lamasu and lich are so bad won't start on their concept I'll need an insulin injection.
-Why on earth is the grim rider riding a unicorn. Is that their way of saying you didn't get unicorn we will put it there. Horse should look more like [url=http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/149/0/e/0e93ba6e3a0828b52fd65c471062a775-d51igzt.jpg]this[/url] or anything without a horn.
-The purple and green feel so odd. Dungeon and necro are gonna be purple ?
-The purple light glow on grim rider, lich & bone dragon is dreadful & should be changed. Bone dragon should not have any on wing and mouth should have other color for mouth, weapon for lich, vamp and rider should be black glowing or taken out and the turquoise on the lich is unnecessary.
-Green eye should be replaced by red one or something else.
Are they really listening to us. I'm starting to wonder beside dungeon what was taken from the community ? (even #GURS was planned from the start)
It's a shame they had a good start with academy and haven. Now they're to much to save (TS, necro, sylvan)
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 12:01 AM |
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My Necro criticism V2
So, the faction is OK but still- I think all the units except Reaper and Spider need redesign. Skeleton is indeed too well-armored- they should be mass-"production" (reanimation) units, and look more broken with rusty and damaged equipment. Also, the upg. should be renamed as Hoplites were Greek spearmen, and they don't carry spears :-)
Also, Ghosts should look more hideous and undead, perhaps something more Ring-like (hair obscuring a rotting, deformed face).
The Elites are the worst, and I agree with everybody: Liches should be skeletal or at least clearly dead-looking. Vampires either Nosferatu-like or more elegant, dark priest/ noble style: wearing robes instead of armor, and draining life through their hands/claws instead of using mundane armor and weapons- after all, that's what a Vampire is all about, being more powerful than the living and not needing their tools.
I don't think Lamassus have a place in the line-up, especially with Ghosts, Vampires (hopefully...) and Bone Dragons being flyers. I'd scrap them altogether, and either make a Mummy elite (as tanks with powerful debuff/cursing abilities) or bump Spiders to Elite (with a redesign) and put Mummies at Core. But anyway, no Lamassus. That's just pissing on the fans.
Regarding the Champions: Bone Dragons are classic maybe, but look bad. Their H3 version was the best, they should return to that form- also perhaps with bejeweled bones, to make them less mundane-looking.
Actually, I wouldn't bother to scrap them and just return Namtarus/ Fate Spinners.
Grim Riders I like a lot. For a long time I suggested this kind of unit- aka Wraith and Dread Knight in the same unit. I just hope they'll get cool abilities.
Overall, just listen to the fans and make undead undead again! Necro should be evil and icky, not serving the balance and all this snow! I'm not entirely against a faction of "good" undead/tomb guardians, but they should be the exception and not the norm. Standard Necro should be BBEG material- banished from the Academy for practicing DARK ARTS, not for worshipping a Goddess.
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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 09:44 AM |
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I will confess that, despite my earlier enthusiasm, I'm starting to see the issues people have been raising. Necropolis feels a bit... eclectic at the moment. Some of the units don't feel like they belong together. Skeleton and Grim Rider looks absolutely boss, but either one next to those liches or the lamasu and they feel out of place. That's not even getting into "If I saw those spiders as a random encounter, how likely am I to identify them as Necropolis units and not some wild beast?"
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted January 26, 2015 11:28 AM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 11:28, 26 Jan 2015.
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can we get rid of the stupid pauldrons and replace that asinine scythe with something not so... stupid looking? The reaper would be great if they did... remember the h5 scythe? both the hero and wraith had pretty cool, non-ridiculous ones. what happened to them? not "fantasy" enough or something? right now it just look like something straight out of f'n warcraft or diablo, and they have snowy scythes. Not to mention it's completely unusable! It would get stuck in everything and seems to try and look "cool" instead of "creepy" and just comes of as looking silly and stupid. It's also made of plastic, probably in china. and with those spikes it'll get stuck in everything.
sorry, had to vent a bit
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 11:30 AM |
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Wraith was great. No reason to give it a silly horse.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted January 26, 2015 11:37 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
Wraith was great. No reason to give it a silly horse.
wait, you talking about h5 wraith? Cause i agree, it was boss. i just don't get why they couldn't have used his scythe instead of this weird, snow one for h7.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 11:51 AM |
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The model of the Rider looks familiar, it's probably a re-used asset.
And, yes, the HoMM 5 one, I mean.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 12:02 PM |
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Ignoring the fact that the elite is clearly recycled from H6 I'll try to give an unbiased opinion on the necro elite+champs.
Lamasu
Although they were a bit weak in H6, I actually quite liked the lamasu. I did not expect them to be still available in the period H7 takes place, but as someone already pointed out the campaign probably takes place in the past (where they still used lamasu).
Considering they are reanimated mummified corpses I think their looks are fine. I only would've given them more hair, to resemble manes.
Lich
Remove the spikes and I might actually like this new iteration of the lich. The skirt looks a bit out of place, as it is really plain compared to the rest of his clothing that is a bit over-embroidered.
I really hope the upgrade won't be a recoloured version of the H6 archlich, which had, on top of an even larger over-abundance of spikes, also a ridiculous top-heavy staff ánd incredibly ugly headgear.
Vampire
This vampire I actually don't mind at all, as it's (almost) completely devoid of spikes. However, I would prefer him to be the vampire knight (upgrade), with the vampire being much less armoured (akin to the H5 one). As this heavily armoured one is yet to be upgraded, I really fear for the looks of that upgrade. It will probably have a helmet and a glowing sword, which I won't mind as long as the take it easy on the spikes.
Bone dragon
The bone dragon looks quite okay. His head is a bit too massive and seriously lacks in the jaw department. I guess this is because the bone dragon is modelled after the black dragon... Also, why does it have bone ears?
Grim rider
Now this is an awesome creature, until you see its ridiculous scythe. Couldn't they make it just a little bit less bulky?
I am interested in the back story for these creatures. Where do they come from and how do they fit in the Ashan version of necropolis?
____________
Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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Darkem
Known Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 12:18 PM |
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@JollyJoker
Do you really believe in what you've wrote? Reused model/skeleton/geometry/whatever from H5? Seriously?
Compare Grim Rider to this:
Anyway, AcidDragon from Acid Cave wrote that Spider and Grim Rider have a completely new models  .
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 12:21 PM |
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That would make them even worse.
Wait a second, where did I say, reused from HoMM FIVE?
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 12:22 PM |
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Congratiolations!!!!
You just destroyed Necropolis and made it the worst town ever created for HOMM ever.
- Re-used models of creatures that many (even hardcore fans) hated.
- Ugly, WOW graphics that don't suit in the same game as the Haven and Academy.
- Purple instead of green! Yey!
Now i'm 100% sure we will see the ugly elementals from HOMM6 back in HOMM7. Bravo!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 26, 2015 12:45 PM |
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Necropolis is DEAD to me, you hear me?! DEAD!
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 12:48 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Necropolis is DEAD to me, you hear me?! DEAD!
[necropolis answering]
NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Come back to me pleaseee!!!
I can't help it that my creators are such a bunch of non-inspired people!
I can't help it that they are forced to recycle my units because they don't have the money to create new looks for us!
I can't help it that they can't even recycle a single little detail on my Lich units!
I'm just a victim, just like all my fans!
Please forgive me!
Love
Necropolis.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 26, 2015 12:52 PM |
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Heresh, more like REHASH, amirite?
(I'm not actually mad, just apathetic. I don't see that change anytime soon as long as Ashan remains a thing)
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Darkem
Known Hero
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posted January 26, 2015 12:55 PM |
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@JollyJoker
I just thought that the second sentence of your message also concerns the Grim Rider. Mea culpa.
Quote:
The model of the Rider looks familiar, it's probably a re-used asset.
And, yes, the HoMM 5 one, I mean.
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This thread is pages long: 
