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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 17, 2014 06:54 PM |
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Don't forget the Black/Dread Knight
 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted August 17, 2014 11:24 PM |
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Personally, I'd really like it if they could drop the "goody-two-shoes" routine of Necropolis and friendliness of all the other factions towards them. Traditionally, Undeath is seen as unnatural and against nature and Undead abominations. Yet, in Heroes 6, everyone is happy to respect the Necromancers and their spider cult and even have warm relations with them.
Together with Inferno, Necropolis should be so far off in the evil side of the spectrum, that no other faction would want to deal with them openly. Instead, Necromancers should be plotting from the shadows, pulling strings behind the curtains and making their enemies do things that favor them. Perhaps a bit like how Palpatine manipulates the Jedi order and the Republic right under their noses.
But since Anastacia is already confirmed, I think we're stuck with the warmly welcomed goody-two-shoe faction from Heroes 6. Blegh.
I'm not going to post a detailed line up, I'll leave that to the designers.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted August 17, 2014 11:56 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 00:29, 18 Aug 2014.
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Er considering the time line the Necromancers have been pretty much ejected from the sliver cities and screwed over by them they have pretty much been at war with Academy. Hell to me it looks like they out right hate each other these two events happen before this game.
Hell Academy even does public execution to necromancers. This is the event during the timeline just before HOMM7.
751 - 770 YSD Purge of the Necromancers - Civil war in the Seven Cities
Jealous of the power acquired by the Necromancers, the Wizards of the Seven Cities initiate a large-scale persecution, ranging from the seizing of their properties, to banishment, to the spectacle of public executions
A long and gruesome civil war ensues. The ancient cities are destroyed and much of the land is rendered uninhabitable.
813 - 822 YSD War of the Broken Staff
The Necromancers attempt to crush the newborn Silver League but the Wizards gain the upper hand and invade Heresh. The Necromancers are utterly defeated and their kingdom shattered.
So yeah lots of sparks between the Academy advisor and the necropolis advisor who looks to be Anastasya. Personally I don't want necropolis to return to one dimensional evil that is boring in my opinion. Plus I don't understand the desire for it. I like the grey angle they took in HOMM6/Danse/Expansion the blood necromancers are down right horrible but they are nesscary for war. I do think we are going to see a darker stroke of them considering what Academy put them through.
Plus if the necromancy Advisor IS Anastasya it looks like her I think that is the only reason why she is allowed onto the council since she is also a Griffin. Plus she would help her family out blood or tears considering her personality no matter what fueds she has with other factions.
Plus you still have the uber evil necromancers(blood necromancers go into this territory) and the ones who only concern themselves with the balance of life and death. The thing they worship IS an avatar of Asha so the other races can stuff it if they think their cult is all about evil it even tried to stop the MC in dark messiah considering what his duty is.
Plus I don't want inferno to be a one dimensional evil faction people find them boring currently BECAUSE of that. If inferno makes the council we finally may see a different prespective.
I personally like the setting being grey all the factions are pricks in various ways. We see it with Haven in HOMM6 and if you go blood with sanctuary you see it there. Read the background on the dark elf heroes it gets pretty crazy and some of them are insane. Plus with this game I am hoping to see more of Academy's dirty Laundry. Since now I know the background of the necromancers and their beginnings I can sympathize with them more.
I don't think any of the factions should be one diminsional good or evil in my opinion.
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Pekao
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 17, 2014 11:59 PM |
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Maurice said:
Personally, I'd really like it if they could drop the "goody-two-shoes" routine of Necropolis and friendliness of all the other factions towards them. Traditionally, Undeath is seen as unnatural and against nature and Undead abominations. Yet, in Heroes 6, everyone is happy to respect the Necromancers and their spider cult and even have warm relations with them.
Together with Inferno, Necropolis should be so far off in the evil side of the spectrum, that no other faction would want to deal with them openly. Instead, Necromancers should be plotting from the shadows, pulling strings behind the curtains and making their enemies do things that favor them. Perhaps a bit like how Palpatine manipulates the Jedi order and the Republic right under their noses.
But since Anastacia is already confirmed, I think we're stuck with the warmly welcomed goody-two-shoe faction from Heroes 6. Blegh.
I'm not going to post a detailed line up, I'll leave that to the designers.
I agree 100% with you. Necromancers should be that unpredictable faction manipulating all the others behind the curtains, unfortunately i don't think we are going to see that... Necropolis, Inferno and Dungeon should be against all other factions and have no allies at all!
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alex_yakub
Famous Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 12:47 PM |
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I just hope that, if fate spinners come back, they will be in their half woman-half spider form permanently. Seriously, whose idea it was to make a more or less creative unit into simple woman in a spider costume wich can turn into woman-spiders hybrid only during battles? Also, I wouldn't mind the lamasus to come back. And how can anyone not love dark knights?
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JeremiahEmo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 01:08 PM |
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lokdron said:
I don't think any of the factions should be one diminsional good or evil in my opinion.
no no no. That is wrong. There should be a faction that is pure evil. Necromancers and Inferno should fit that. It's what makes them fun. If you're gonna give more dimension to Necromancer and Inferno aside from evil, that will take their fun away.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 01:58 PM |
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JeremiahEmo said:
lokdron said:
I don't think any of the factions should be one diminsional good or evil in my opinion.
no no no. That is wrong. There should be a faction that is pure evil. Necromancers and Inferno should fit that. It's what makes them fun. If you're gonna give more dimension to Necromancer and Inferno aside from evil, that will take their fun away.
No, that is just your opinion.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 02:22 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 14:23, 18 Aug 2014.
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JeremiahEmo said:
lokdron said:
I don't think any of the factions should be one diminsional good or evil in my opinion.
no no no. That is wrong. There should be a faction that is pure evil. Necromancers and Inferno should fit that. It's what makes them fun. If you're gonna give more dimension to Necromancer and Inferno aside from evil, that will take their fun away.
Eh many people find Inferno boring for that reason since they ARE one dimensional. There were a few interesting conversations here and there with Kha Beleth since he wants to turn inferno into an nation rather than random demon lords doing their thing.
Plus I knew quite a few people who like the new take on necromancers I am one of those people who like it.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 03:33 PM |
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lokdron said:
Er considering the time line the Necromancers have been pretty much ejected from the sliver cities and screwed over by them they have pretty much been at war with Academy. Hell to me it looks like they out right hate each other these two events happen before this game.
Hell Academy even does public execution to necromancers. This is the event during the timeline just before HOMM7.
751 - 770 YSD Purge of the Necromancers - Civil war in the Seven Cities
Jealous of the power acquired by the Necromancers, the Wizards of the Seven Cities initiate a large-scale persecution, ranging from the seizing of their properties, to banishment, to the spectacle of public executions
A long and gruesome civil war ensues. The ancient cities are destroyed and much of the land is rendered uninhabitable.
813 - 822 YSD War of the Broken Staff
The Necromancers attempt to crush the newborn Silver League but the Wizards gain the upper hand and invade Heresh. The Necromancers are utterly defeated and their kingdom shattered.
So yeah lots of sparks between the Academy advisor and the necropolis advisor who looks to be Anastasya. Personally I don't want necropolis to return to one dimensional evil that is boring in my opinion. Plus I don't understand the desire for it. I like the grey angle they took in HOMM6/Danse/Expansion the blood necromancers are down right horrible but they are nesscary for war. I do think we are going to see a darker stroke of them considering what Academy put them through.
Plus if the necromancy Advisor IS Anastasya it looks like her I think that is the only reason why she is allowed onto the council since she is also a Griffin. Plus she would help her family out blood or tears considering her personality no matter what fueds she has with other factions.
Plus you still have the uber evil necromancers(blood necromancers go into this territory) and the ones who only concern themselves with the balance of life and death. The thing they worship IS an avatar of Asha so the other races can stuff it if they think their cult is all about evil it even tried to stop the MC in dark messiah considering what his duty is.
Plus I don't want inferno to be a one dimensional evil faction people find them boring currently BECAUSE of that. If inferno makes the council we finally may see a different prespective.
I personally like the setting being grey all the factions are pricks in various ways. We see it with Haven in HOMM6 and if you go blood with sanctuary you see it there. Read the background on the dark elf heroes it gets pretty crazy and some of them are insane. Plus with this game I am hoping to see more of Academy's dirty Laundry. Since now I know the background of the necromancers and their beginnings I can sympathize with them more.
I don't think any of the factions should be one diminsional good or evil in my opinion.
I couldn't have said it better 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 03:45 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 16:00, 18 Aug 2014.
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i don't remember anyone complaining of a lack of "spiritual depth"(read: goody two-shoes), when it's come to great villains in many, many movies, comic books, games, etc. sometimes, it's just good to be bad. the badder, the better. you want sympathy for your characters, go find the tree-huggers. they should have to deal with a bunch of straight evil mother****ers.
no one complained about the orcs in the lord of the rings being one-dimensional. or sauron. i loved them(and him) for how horribly evil they were. some people LIKE their bad guys BAD.
i say, the necromancers are the MOST evil. they're raising the dead themselves, which is against god(s), divine paths, fate, etc. they OUGHTA' be the worst.
no, when it comes to undead, i like the christian repulsiveness and sin in it. i don't care for the "we're all friends, we understand one another" attitude.
the kreegans, they were aliens anyway, right? they're FAKE evil. necromancers SHOULD be the ONLY true evil. 
*disclaimer: i haven't read most of this thread, so if i'm reiterating something that someone else already said(before this page, anyway), it wasn't my intention to ride coattails. i feel pretty strongly about this, as necromancers are my favorite faction, from both homm2 and homm3(my 2 favorite heroes games).
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 06:40 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 18:49, 18 Aug 2014.
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fred79 said:
i don't remember anyone complaining of a lack of "spiritual depth"(read: goody two-shoes), when it's come to great villains in many, many movies, comic books, games, etc. sometimes, it's just good to be bad. the badder, the better. you want sympathy for your characters, go find the tree-huggers. they should have to deal with a bunch of straight evil mother****ers.
no one complained about the orcs in the lord of the rings being one-dimensional. or sauron. i loved them(and him) for how horribly evil they were. some people LIKE their bad guys BAD.
i say, the necromancers are the MOST evil. they're raising the dead themselves, which is against god(s), divine paths, fate, etc. they OUGHTA' be the worst.
no, when it comes to undead, i like the christian repulsiveness and sin in it. i don't care for the "we're all friends, we understand one another" attitude.
the kreegans, they were aliens anyway, right? they're FAKE evil. necromancers SHOULD be the ONLY true evil.
*disclaimer: i haven't read most of this thread, so if i'm reiterating something that someone else already said(before this page, anyway), it wasn't my intention to ride coattails. i feel pretty strongly about this, as necromancers are my favorite faction, from both homm2 and homm3(my 2 favorite heroes games).
Well in Ashan the thing the necromancers worship and follow is an Avatar or the dragon that created the world, Asha. Even the childnren of the other dragons say that Asha deals with the spirits and life and death. Just like the necromancers So who are you to say its against divine path when an avatar of the dragon who created the world supports them?
Its the wizards who are going against divine decree hell in HOMM5 they are called godless heretics. Plus they don't see the dragons as gods but as forces. Their motto is this.
“No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom”.
A motto like that can lead the many issues look at stronghold stories of slavery by the wizards. The necromancers public executions and shattering their country since they did not understand how their powers worked and their connection with the avatar of the one who created the world.(Plus Jealously)
I like that the factions are grey here everyone has screwed someone else over hard at one point. We really see it with the Haven in HOMM6 plus the less evil side to inferno, necropolis and dungeon I personally like the fact that the factions are not pure good or evil.
What I am going to like is the sparks that will fly between the factions since their past grievances will show up in the campaign.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 07:19 PM |
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lokdron said:
Well in Ashan the thing the necromancers worship and follow is an Avatar or the dragon that created the world, Asha. Even the childnren of the other dragons say that Asha deals with the spirits and life and death. Just like the necromancers So who are you to say its against divine path when an avatar of the dragon who created the world supports them?
i am me, that's who i am. kidding aside, i don't know the lore with HoMM(whichever one you're referring to; hopefully not anything past homm3, or you really haven't been reading my posts), but i never paid attention to the lore anyway. i was speaking in terms of the necromancers' past in homm(2 and 3), and, explaining WHY necromancy is evil: by it's relation to real life and the reasoning behind it's "evil", which is an opposition to christian belief.
lokdron said:
Its the wizards who are going against divine decree hell in HOMM5 they are called godless heretics. Plus they don't see the dragons as gods but as forces. Their motto is this.
ah, that clears things up. let me clarify: ubisoft creating a bull**** fantasy that means nothing in regards to the past games, makes it mean absolutely nothing to me. so, i could care less what happened in homm4-9,450,371. in homm2 and 3, necromancers were evil. ubisoft deciding to go another way, doesn't change that fact for me.
since you obviously aren't on the same page with me, it doesn't matter if i reply to the rest of your post. your difference of opinion based on what ubisoft has taught you since it decided to skull-**** the original storyline, means nothing to me, but is duly noted nevertheless. 
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 18, 2014 07:40 PM |
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Maurice said:
But since Anastacia is already confirmed, I think we're stuck with the warmly welcomed goody-two-shoe faction from Heroes 6. Blegh.
Yeah, what happened with Necromancers like in the "Playing with Fire" campaign back in H3. Necromancers/Dread Knights left death and destruction in their wake, people of Tatalia were having hard time with their invasion. Heck, whole of Erathia was having some serious problems with them. Now we have some bullcr*p Namtaru Mother with her oh so mysterious (and gibberish) prophecies etc...
BTW, they really should bring Death Knights/Black Knights into the Necro line-up. But spare me the "crimson" design from H5...
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 08:04 PM |
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I hope they won't be able to raise units after each battle... Always hated that mechanic. Too strong for such a silly race.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 18, 2014 08:05 PM |
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kayna said:
Too strong for such a silly race.
Why silly?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 08:07 PM |
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kayna said:
Too strong for such a silly race.
my avatar has a bone to pick with you.
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 08:09 PM |
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Because it's silly, every other race, you creep around, your army reduces, except them, they get bigger!
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 09:08 PM |
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because they raise the dead? pretty simple. 
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 09:33 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 21:40, 18 Aug 2014.
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fred79 said:
lokdron said:
Well in Ashan the thing the necromancers worship and follow is an Avatar or the dragon that created the world, Asha. Even the childnren of the other dragons say that Asha deals with the spirits and life and death. Just like the necromancers So who are you to say its against divine path when an avatar of the dragon who created the world supports them?
i am me, that's who i am. kidding aside, i don't know the lore with HoMM(whichever one you're referring to; hopefully not anything past homm3, or you really haven't been reading my posts), but i never paid attention to the lore anyway. i was speaking in terms of the necromancers' past in homm(2 and 3), and, explaining WHY necromancy is evil: by it's relation to real life and the reasoning behind it's "evil", which is an opposition to christian belief.
lokdron said:
Its the wizards who are going against divine decree hell in HOMM5 they are called godless heretics. Plus they don't see the dragons as gods but as forces. Their motto is this.
ah, that clears things up. let me clarify: ubisoft creating a bull**** fantasy that means nothing in regards to the past games, makes it mean absolutely nothing to me. so, i could care less what happened in homm4-9,450,371. in homm2 and 3, necromancers were evil. ubisoft deciding to go another way, doesn't change that fact for me.
since you obviously aren't on the same page with me, it doesn't matter if i reply to the rest of your post. your difference of opinion based on what ubisoft has taught you since it decided to skull-**** the original storyline, means nothing to me, but is duly noted nevertheless.
Fair enough agree to disagree this is a whole new world not the previous world so new setting new lore they are not going to change them. Plus you cannot compare them to a real life religious stand point I don't know where people getting the idea that they are goodie two shoes or its the fact they have not played the base game, Danse DLC or the expansion if you go the blood route as necropolis.
I simply don't want to return to one dimensional factions(that goes for all of them) since to me that is boring.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 18, 2014 09:36 PM |
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you don't have to tell me, i already know. 
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This thread is pages long: 
