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| Thread: Giving a second chance to the game - Yay or nay? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 16, 2016 06:41 PM |
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Most H7 campaign maps were as rpg as it gets, minus the challenge. As a fan of h2&3 campaigns I just found that disappointing. So many quests within quests that it felt like an all too familiar meme. Not to mention, sometimes unclear objectives and script-driven story. A script fails to trigger? You are screwed.
I just miss military campaigns like those in armageddon's blade, Adrienne and Gem's missions. Where the story was told in text boxes between turns. Also the more personal missions like Dracon and Yog's. I even miss the gif introductions of each mission.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted February 16, 2016 06:46 PM |
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Antalyan said:
Do not judge H7 before it is finished!
Well, at least you are acknowledging Ubi sold an unfinished product at full price. Baby steps?
Elvin said:
I even miss the gif introductions of each mission.
Animated intros in 2015? Perish the thought!
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted February 16, 2016 07:02 PM |
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Antalyan said:
H5+ Heroes added to turn-based strategy new possibilities. Don't like it? There are still the same kill'em all games in multiplayer os single game. And these rpg elements and 3D graphics are one of the main things which changed how much I like Heroes...
H4 added new possibilities for Heroes games. Most campaign scenarios there, were strategy ones, while there were few rpg ones, which was ok because there were few of them (heroes is turn based strategy, if I want rpg I would play might and magic). In H5+ you got dumbed down tbs turned into idioticly shallow rpg which is not what I expect when I buy turn based strategy. In a way, I see that as false advertising 
Elvin said:
Most H7 campaign maps were as rpg as it gets, minus the challenge. As a fan of h2&3 campaigns I just found that disappointing. So many quests within quests that it felt like an all too familiar meme. Not to mention, sometimes unclear objectives and script-driven story. A script fails to trigger? You are screwed.
That is so sad...
Elvin said:
I just miss military campaigns like those in armageddon's blade, Adrienne and Gem's missions. Where the story was told in text boxes between turns. Also the more personal missions like Dracon and Yog's. I even miss the gif introductions of each mission.
Same here.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted February 16, 2016 07:11 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
Antalyan said:
H5+ Heroes added to turn-based strategy new possibilities. Don't like it? There are still the same kill'em all games in multiplayer os single game. And these rpg elements and 3D graphics are one of the main things which changed how much I like Heroes...
H4 added new possibilities for Heroes games. Most campaign scenarios there, were strategy ones, while there were few rpg ones, which was ok because there were few of them (heroes is turn based strategy, if I want rpg I would play might and magic). In H5+ you got dumbed down tbs turned into idioticly shallow rpg which is not what I expect when I buy turn based strategy. In a way, I see that as false advertising
I did not spend enough time in H4 to discover what you describe.
Maybe M&M Heroes series should be called rather "turn-based strategy with rpg elements" but compared to the other Ubi false promises like challenging AI is this one the clear truth 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 16, 2016 07:34 PM |
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Elvin said:
Most H7 campaign maps were as rpg as it gets, minus the challenge. As a fan of h2&3 campaigns I just found that disappointing. So many quests within quests that it felt like an all too familiar meme. Not to mention, sometimes unclear objectives and script-driven story. A script fails to trigger? You are screwed.
I just miss military campaigns like those in armageddon's blade, Adrienne and Gem's missions. Where the story was told in text boxes between turns. Also the more personal missions like Dracon and Yog's. I even miss the gif introductions of each mission.
So let me get this straight Elvin, are you actually admitting that Marzhin screwed things up? Wasn't he the one laughing at the poor campaign maps back in Heroes 5? I mean, isn't this just savory poetic justice?
But anyway, have you even seen the campaigns from AoW3? Dude... I swear, that game is more Heroes than Heroes 7 is.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 16, 2016 07:58 PM |
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H5 campaigns sucked, more than H7. Only tote missions were to my liking, they were challenging and fun. I think it's fairer to say that I'm just not a fun of the current design..The adventure packs were fun but H7, mostly bad. Some glorious exceptions but too easy to enjoy. It is possible that map design was influenced by the fact that H7 AI is plain stupid ofc. At least H5 AI could pressure you.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 16, 2016 08:28 PM |
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PS I would give a second chance, if we get a stable addon and the gameplay shortcomings are fixed. Namely real sim turns, real hero specials, unit ability revision to add more and give character, faster and more interesting town development and improved skill/spell system. The essentials, what we should have gotten from the start.
If those are addressed I will play H7for a time. If I haven't moved on by then that is.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted February 16, 2016 08:28 PM |
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Antalyan said:
... and great flanking system.
Actually, H7's flanking system was rather poorly in implementation. You were unable to change the facing of your units in defense for possible flanking attacks and neither were you able to effectively counter flanking attacks from happening since enemy units can freely dance and dash through your ranks without repercussions. An often heard argument is that doing so would open the enemy to flanking attacks on his turn in return, but that was going to happen anyway, given that you can dance and dash between the enemy ranks just as well.
Age of Wonders III did this a whole lot better.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted February 16, 2016 10:53 PM |
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Elvin said:
I just miss military campaigns like those in armageddon's blade, Adrienne and Gem's missions. Where the story was told in text boxes between turns. Also the more personal missions like Dracon and Yog's. I even miss the gif introductions of each mission.
Design wise they could be sucky. I remember one time I was playing AB campaigns, reached Adrienne's 2nd map, a huge swamp area, L sized map where you had to flag all creature dwellings. I defeated my enemies, flagged everything I had in sight, both above and in the underground...and I still wouldn't get mission finished because I had apparently missed one dwelling, even though I couldn't find it, neither with the normal map nor with view air That was painfully boring, AB had a lot of those.
The ones I truly enjoyed replaying are RoE and SoD. RoE in particular are mostly S-M maps, simple in terms of objectives and stuff in the map but you still have the freedom to complete your quests as you wish to do. No silly pre-scripted stuff.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted February 17, 2016 12:23 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Design wise they could be sucky. I remember one time I was playing AB campaigns, reached Adrienne's 2nd map, a huge swamp area, L sized map where you had to flag all creature dwellings. I defeated my enemies, flagged everything I had in sight, both above and in the underground...and I still wouldn't get mission finished because I had apparently missed one dwelling, even though I couldn't find it, neither with the normal map nor with view air
I actually dislike that mission a lot, mostly because it has a time constraint on top of it and while it seems a lot (7 months, from memory), it's actually short due to the map size. If I recall correctly, some creature dwellings were actually on the map border, only partially inside the map and partially out of it. That makes recognizing them harder. One clear one that comes to mind is a Gnoll dwelling somewhere in the left map border.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted February 17, 2016 12:27 AM |
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Galaad said:
The_green_drag said:
I've actually never had any performance issues on my computer  
Share your hardware info, people having the same will know they'll have a chance to get the game running then.
I've got a i7-4790 Intel processor, 16gb RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 video card, and running windoes 10. Aside from one or two crashes during the games launch, I don't have problems running it.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 17, 2016 08:35 AM |
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I come from H1 and H2 initially. In H1 you could play 4 campaigns, one for each faction, but the maps were the same. "Campaign" meant a succession of maps with a registered added-up time you needed to finish, so you could compare scores. Story? Not so.
Changed in H2. You had two campaigns, a good and an evil one, each involving 3 towns (evil Necro, Warlock and Barbarian). The add-on gave more. Those were fun. Story elements, but they didn't take themselves too seriously. Maps would see you start with new heroes, sometimes with special campaign heroes.
That changed with H3 when you suddenly kept heroes - for the price of a level-up limit per map which I hated, with a vengeance. RoE campaigns were pretty interesting, though. SoD brought the campaign editor, and you could finally adjust the difficulty, but by then I had lost interest: the epic SINGLE maps, a few of which the game came with, a lot more player-made, were WAY, WAY better suited for the game.
Changed yet again with H4. Due to the RPG element strengthening, the campaign scope became way bigger. They could tell the story of 2 lovers, and since Heroes could get up to 100 levels, your single Hero without army WAS an army (summoning stuff in battle). That was obviously cool, but negatively spoken, just showed that the more RPG-like campaigns were not something for the core Heroes game.
H5 simply confirmed that assessment: campaigns boring, scripted Single Maps way better. WAY better.
However - they didn't get it for H6 and they didn't get it for H7 either. In Heroes campaigns are limited naturally by the level-up of heroes. Level-up limits are nonsense and unimmersive. You can have more than one main hero, "sharing" a campaign, but that's it.
Then there is this idiotic quest/script system. Go there. Find that. Visit X. Talk to Y. Go back to X. That's definitely not, how I want to play the game, ANY game, actually. It's supposed to be a strategy game, not painting by numbers.
H7 has Single Scenarios as well, mind you. Which I haven't played, since the game is so boring as a whole. I HATE those idiotic skill wheels. They tell a story of "destiny", and that everyone can pick it - except they can't, or, more correctly, only within pre-determined strict limits.
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted February 17, 2016 05:42 PM |
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Maurice said:
Antalyan said:
... and great flanking system.
Actually, H7's flanking system was rather poorly in implementation. You were unable to change the facing of your units in defense for possible flanking attacks and neither were you able to effectively counter flanking attacks from happening since enemy units can freely dance and dash through your ranks without repercussions. An often heard argument is that doing so would open the enemy to flanking attacks on his turn in return, but that was going to happen anyway, given that you can dance and dash between the enemy ranks just as well.
Age of Wonders III did this a whole lot better.
Maybe it was not used in the best way but generally I like too see this mechanics in Heroes (although I was when I first saw it against).
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted February 17, 2016 06:00 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
I come from H1 and H2 initially. In H1 you could play 4 campaigns, one for each faction, but the maps were the same. "Campaign" meant a succession of maps with a registered added-up time you needed to finish, so you could compare scores. Story? Not so.
Changed in H2. You had two campaigns, a good and an evil one, each involving 3 towns (evil Necro, Warlock and Barbarian). The add-on gave more. Those were fun. Story elements, but they didn't take themselves too seriously. Maps would see you start with new heroes, sometimes with special campaign heroes.
That changed with H3 when you suddenly kept heroes - for the price of a level-up limit per map which I hated, with a vengeance. RoE campaigns were pretty interesting, though. SoD brought the campaign editor, and you could finally adjust the difficulty, but by then I had lost interest: the epic SINGLE maps, a few of which the game came with, a lot more player-made, were WAY, WAY better suited for the game.
Changed yet again with H4. Due to the RPG element strengthening, the campaign scope became way bigger. They could tell the story of 2 lovers, and since Heroes could get up to 100 levels, your single Hero without army WAS an army (summoning stuff in battle). That was obviously cool, but negatively spoken, just showed that the more RPG-like campaigns were not something for the core Heroes game.
H5 simply confirmed that assessment: campaigns boring, scripted Single Maps way better. WAY better.
However - they didn't get it for H6 and they didn't get it for H7 either. In Heroes campaigns are limited naturally by the level-up of heroes. Level-up limits are nonsense and unimmersive. You can have more than one main hero, "sharing" a campaign, but that's it.
Then there is this idiotic quest/script system. Go there. Find that. Visit X. Talk to Y. Go back to X. That's definitely not, how I want to play the game, ANY game, actually. It's supposed to be a strategy game, not painting by numbers.
H7 has Single Scenarios as well, mind you. Which I haven't played, since the game is so boring as a whole. I HATE those idiotic skill wheels. They tell a story of "destiny", and that everyone can pick it - except they can't, or, more correctly, only within pre-determined strict limits.
I see from your description you prefer to feel free in Heroes games. You want to choose what you will do and you do not like scripted and linear missions, so I understand H7 cannot give you what you want.
I am the other part of the coin. These things are exactly what I like on Heroes games and why I do not like the older ones much (along 2D grapics). H5 was the first Heroes game I loved story in so in this regard H6 and H7 meet my expectations very well.
Ubi brought a new way for these games, adding more rpg elements. You and many others dislike them but for me that's exactly what I wanted.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted February 17, 2016 06:23 PM |
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Antalyan said:
I see from your description you prefer to feel free in Heroes games. You want to choose what you will do and you do not like scripted and linear missions, so I understand H7 cannot give you what you want.
I am the other part of the coin. These things are exactly what I like on Heroes games and why I do not like the older ones much (along 2D grapics).
So, you are saying that you like turn based strategy HoMM, but only because it is becoming less strategy more rpg?
Antalyan said:
H5 was the first Heroes game I loved story in so in this regard H6 and H7 meet my expectations very well.
Ubi brought a new way for these games, adding more rpg elements. You and many others dislike them but for me that's exactly what I wanted.
Did I understand this right? You like H5 story?
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 17, 2016 06:50 PM |
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And you said that in public? Brave soul.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
channeling capybara energy
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posted February 17, 2016 06:56 PM |
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted February 17, 2016 07:14 PM |
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Edited by Antalyan at 19:17, 17 Feb 2016.
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frostymuaddib said:
Antalyan said:
I see from your description you prefer to feel free in Heroes games. You want to choose what you will do and you do not like scripted and linear missions, so I understand H7 cannot give you what you want.
I am the other part of the coin. These things are exactly what I like on Heroes games and why I do not like the older ones much (along 2D graphics).
So, you are saying that you like turn based strategy HoMM, but only because it is becoming less strategy more rpg?
Not exactly. I like them much more thanks to that. Many years ago, I quite enjoyed H2, but now I won't return to it because I miss many features there. It might be baffling for you but these things make the combination of a perfect game for me.
Antalyan said:
H5 was the first Heroes game I loved story in so in this regard H6 and H7 meet my expectations very well.
Ubi brought a new way for these games, adding more rpg elements. You and many others dislike them but for me that's exactly what I wanted.
Did I understand this right? You like H5 story?
Stories before H5 never got interested me, H5 was the first Heroes game I noticed the story a lot (and still remember - but maybe because I have finished it many times ) Simple, rememberable and in many regards predictable story with maybe too much demons...
The_Polyglot said:
Just gonna leave this here for you
Never seen this before, thanks
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted February 17, 2016 07:26 PM |
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Antalyan said:
Stories before H5 never got interested me, H5 was the first Heroes game I noticed the story a lot (and still remember - but maybe because I have finished it many times ) Simple, rememberable and in many regards predictable story with maybe too much demons...
You should know, you missed a lot. H3 AB and SoD had good stories, Heroes Chronicles were also nice, put H4 (vanilla) was the peak of storytelling of the franchise. Compared to that, H5 story cannot even be called story. A 7 year old kid could've done better job.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted February 17, 2016 07:37 PM |
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frostymuaddib said:
Antalyan said:
Stories before H5 never got interested me, H5 was the first Heroes game I noticed the story a lot (and still remember - but maybe because I have finished it many times ) Simple, rememberable and in many regards predictable story with maybe too much demons...
You should know, you missed a lot. H3 AB and SoD had good stories, Heroes Chronicles were also nice, put H4 (vanilla) was the peak of storytelling of the franchise. Compared to that, H5 story cannot even be called story. A 7 year old kid could've done better job.
I would give them a chance if someone redone them in 3D... Now after playing H5,6,7 it is impossible for me to return back to 2D.
About H5 story: I agree there is a significant difference between H5 and H7 story (as you know I don't know the old ones). H5 was a story more like a fairy tale, H7 has some dilemmas and moral conflicts so I see it to be much further. But do you know better introduction to a brand new world than fairy tale?
However the thing which seems to me strange's why H5 characters did not learn from their ancestors? They behave more stupid and do worse decisions than H6 or H7 ones...
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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