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| Thread: Donald Trump recognizes AlQods as Israel’s capital city |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV |
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted May 18, 2018 07:01 PM |
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tSar-Ivor said:
Who in their right mind brings their children into the thick of things?
People who dont give a **** about them and use them as political cannon fodder, aka the noble and majestic warrior-philosopher-poets of the Palestinian Empire, aka Paradise on Earth.
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Tsar-ivor
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posted May 18, 2018 07:16 PM |
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fred79 said:
AlHazin said:
The truth is, after WW2, that the Brits were just as much as the Germans convinced that Jews were an issue for peace in Europe, someone logical thinking just like you would have chosen to create a state for Jews in Europe, surrounded by friendly countries, sharing the same social and moral valors, oddly enough it has been decided to send them right in the middle of the Arab world, surrounded by « enemy » nations with totally different social economical habits. You could say that Churchill actually agreed with Hitler’s point of view, it’s just that Anglo-saxons have a different way of handling questions. Where Germans use brute force Brits use their legendary « soft power » which basically can be summerised by: « getting rid of the Jews, yes, just in a different way, rather than sending them to the other world, sending them in another place of this world, on another continent ».
if this is historically accurate(i don't follow history because it bores me to death, mostly; but also because historical knowledge with my level of influence means nothing whatsoever), then maybe the jews were sent there because whoever sent them thought they would be exterminated when surrounded by their enemies. from what i've read, the jews have been kicked out of every nation they've ever been a part of. and now that they apparently(i say that because i don't know, but that seems to be the popular opinion among the more intelligent people who don't buy what mass media is selling) have so much control in the u.s., it would be plain to see how they are getting better treatment.
maybe there IS something to all this anti-jew sentiment? if it's true that they've been kicked out of every nation they've ever been a part of, i think it'd be interesting to find out WHY; and then see if that directly correlates with what's happening in the world with jews today.
but to be honest, i don't much see the point in finding the truth about jews, regardless. it'd be more for a hobby than anything else, since even IF there is something to all the anti-jew sentiment, there's nothing that can really be done about it. i say that, because the same people who spout anti-jew sentiment, also claim that the jews have entrenched themselves so well, and have been pushing lies and propaganda for so long, that nothing will be done about them regardless; they are continually seen as victims, and they reinforce that(from what they say, anyway).
which is one of the reasons there's no point in me getting my panties in a wad over something like this; i'm nobody on the totem pole of power. and i never WILL be anyone influential, regardless. so my beliefs are rendered moot before they are ever shared. and certainly, with my track record of people arguing with me over the simplist of snow, i wouldn't reach anyone anyway, on ANY part of the totem pole.  
my own personal beliefs, are that jews, muslims, catholics, christians, and every other religious sect, all have their own problems; and no one group is innocent. but that goes for all groups of people regardless, including nations. which is nothing new, to anyone with something worthwhile between their ears.
It is hidtorically accurate if we go by Churchill and Roosevelt, their exchanges with each other (and their missives in general) paint a pretty stark picture. The soldiers on the other hand (i only looked at US ones) were mortified by the death camps, reports of surrendering Germans in concentration camps being gunned down were common. The higher ups didnt blink an eyelid all the 'tears' came after the war.
Churchill was important figure long before ww2 . He definately pro Jewish Israel in 1923 (though it only gets a brief mention, hsppened during the carving up of African borders)
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Neraus
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posted May 18, 2018 07:46 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 19:51, 18 May 2018.
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Good lord, the quote war is starting.
Btw, even Nazi Germany attempted to move the jews to Israel, and the Lehi group of zionists even tried to get the Axis' support to drive the Brits out of Israel. They were even ready to give the old town of Jerusalem to the Pope and have Italy as a semi-overlord. It's ironic considering that Italy at the time already passed the racial laws to appease lil'moustache, but until 1938 we were much more favourable to the jews compared to the goose soldiers.
Some might even say that the Brits by not allowing the relocation of the jews were complicit in the holocaust.
I don't really take a position on that because it's a risky proposition, but I'll say this, if it's something that caused unnecessary ruin and suffering because someone wanted to retain their "superiority" then I'm always ready to suspect the eternal Anglo.
God, how I would have really loved Kaiser Wilhelm winning the war.
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AlHazin
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النور
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posted May 19, 2018 12:08 AM |
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Hey cheers likewise to you Neraus, I missed your post. Don’t support the pope, beCOME the pope.
Just because a meeting is programmed with Kim Jung Un doesn’t erase the recent crisis Trump had with NK, some seem to have a rather short memory. The meeting that is supposed to take place in Singapore, has actually great chances of being canceled.
Trump leaving the nuclear pact with Iran, the relationships with ASEAN, and so on are indeed the kind of decisions that isolates USA on a diplomatic plan. But of course, me being biased surprisingly explains everything, trying to depict Trump as a diplomatic man of peace... I think we just got the next French president.
@Fred: it happened I’m sure of it. Ask about it around your comrades. Or maybe it’s taboo talking about it, it’s not the kind of experience you share around a cup of tea.
Also, just because you’re a standard USAian citizen doesn’t mean you can’t have an opinion about how your country acts, I’d actually like to see American opposing their government sometimes. The truth is that Jews have suffered in the great majority under western rules, it is Europeans who massacred them for centuries, they never loved them nor respected them. Ironically, it is in the Arab world that they mostly lived well. We have Jews here in Algeria, some who are descendants of Jews since centuries and some who are called Black Feet Jews (Black Feet was the name of the Europeans living here in French Algeria), Iran has a massive Jewish community (those who are said to be the supporters of the antichrist in the future), there are Jews still living in all of the Arab world. The anti-Jewish feeling developed when Israel started to exist, it’s a rather new « fashion », prior to that Jews were seen as rivals, but equal rivals. Then like really, when some Algerians who legally had the right to ask for the French citizenship did so and emigrated there, would you say it was because Algeria expelled them? It’s the same phenomenon: you’re a Jew living in a country (Arab or not) where you’re catalogued as a Jew, with low life level, on the other hand Israel grants you a citizenship and a residence in a way better economical country just because you’re a Jew (like Ireland does for those who can prove Irish ancestry), what do you choose? Of course you « expell » yourself. It helped Israel grow its population, and the Jews live a better, safer life in their new nation where obviously you can’t suffer any kind of anti-Jewish feeling.
@Geny: So mate it’s either my theory (which isn’t only mine, by all means I like to understand history and how we get to the situations we’re in) either one has to think that Europeans are angels, who suddenly after killing the Jews started to care for their lives and legacy to live in the holy land in a hebrewish state terribly influenced by their religion and their zionist ideology that they never respected. The Brits were as much antisemits (in that time, I’m not talking about today) as the Germans and pretty much all of Europeans were. Making plans to « get them out » of course didn’t wait for WW2 to occur, since anti-Jewish mentalities existed in Europe since ancient age, and Jews didn’t have the weight that have in USA back then in UK.
Europeans didn’t help Jews build Israel solely by ideology or out of pity for what happened to them, they did so most importantly for strategic and pragmatic motives. For sure you’ll rarely find in history books crude truths thrown like that, but c’mon don’t tell me the Marshall plan given to west Europe and Japan was a selfless demonstration of generosity, otherwise the Soviet Union and China would have had some as well. USA and allies support Israel because there are big interests doing so, thinking the west cares about Jews is fantasy, and vice versa.
As to why Israel « the only country » well it’s because it’s not your own people you’re shooting at, it’s another people, weaker than you, and who were living there before this whole story. It’s occupation, colonisation and domination through might, even if Israel doesn’t see it this way, at least Arabs do.
I hope the tension goes down though. I think a human life is worth more than a thousand Jerusalems. But Benyameen thinks the opposite.
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Geny
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posted May 19, 2018 05:54 AM |
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Quote:
But Benyameen leaders on both sides think the opposite.
Fixed.
Yeah, thankfully things seem to be calming down for now. I guess no one wants another escalation at this point.
And you're right, of course, on the grand scale no one does anything out of the goodness of their heart. I just think that the reasons were more strategic in nature, having an ally in the Middle East and having good relationship with some wealthy Jews, and less getting rid of Jews. At least in the beginning.
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Geny
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posted June 15, 2018 08:37 AM |
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So I want to bring your attention to something. The UN General Assembly adopted an Arab-sponsored resolution calling for greater protection for Palestinians, and deploring any use of “excessive, disproportionate and indiscriminate” force by the Israeli military against Palestinian civilians, particularly in Gaza. Now seemingly this is nothing new and maybe even has merit, because unarmed civilians did die in the protests.
However, there was something different about this particular assembly. Before the voting commenced, USA proposed an amendment that would also condemn HAMAS for firing rockets into civilian population and using resources for war efforts rather than the humanitarian needs of the Palestinians. The vote for the amendment got a slight majority, but ultimately fell through because less than two thirds of the Assembly participated in the vote.
I have been told several times before on this forum that I should look at the large number of anti-Israeli resolutions in the UN and that it is unlikely that the whole world is in the wrong and Israel alone is in the right. To those people, I would like to pose a question: why should I listen to an Assembly that deplores the use of excessive force against Palestinians and calls for an "international protection mechanism" for Palestinians against Israeli aggression, but fails to deplore HAMAS or mention that the same mechanism should be used to protect Israeli civilians against rocket fire and offensive tunnels?
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Salamandre
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posted June 15, 2018 10:07 AM |
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Geny said:
why should I listen to an Assembly
Looks to me that you are looking for an excuse for something you would do anyway, when did Israel ever listen to UN?
This conflict is a very delicate however it has a starting deflating point, stop annexing territories you don't own.
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Geny
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posted June 15, 2018 10:10 AM |
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It's not an excuse, it's an example of what I've been saying for a long time, that the UN is very biased and therefore loses its credibility.
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Minion
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posted June 15, 2018 11:01 AM |
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If I sratch a car and I would get the same condemnation as someone who blew up 40 cards and broke windows of THOUSANDS of other cars, that would be horribly injust.
It should not be told to anyone with a sense of humanity how wrong it is to kill 40 people and injure 5,511. United States has long lost it's credibility as a source for justice. This kind of news is oh so common : US blocks U.N. Proposal to Investigate Israel Fire at the Gaza Border
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Geny
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posted June 15, 2018 11:22 AM |
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Wait, so you're saying that firing into civilian population for no other reason than to try and hurt them is not worthy of condemnation? Or that Israeli citizen do not deserve protection from aggressive behavior? What the hell is going on here?!
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Minion
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posted June 15, 2018 11:46 AM |
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Every single act of violence is condemnable. But it seems laughable when 1 person was injured on your side and literally THOUSANDS on the other. One sided fights are not even fights, they are massacres.
Or wait, are you saying that 1 Israeli life is worth tens of thousands of Palestinians? Gasps! What the hell is going on in here?!?!?
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Geny
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posted June 15, 2018 11:57 AM |
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No I am not. I think that in a perfect world no lives should be lost, I think that counting lives is wrong, because the families of the dead would grieve the same regardless of whether their loved one was the only casualty or not. Which is why it is so weird to me that condemning Israel is so easy while condemning Palestine is almost a taboo.
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AlHazin
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النور
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posted June 15, 2018 12:02 PM |
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Everybody is biased Geny. Are you going to tell me USA are objective in the diplomatic moves in the region?
There are three versions of the story:
The first degree is that Israel should not even exist.
The second degree Israel owns what the partition plan gave it the first time, which tbh, was a biased plan giving you most coast and better lands, some of which populated by Arabs for the majority. This is what UN and most nations recognize you deserve.
Then there’s the third degree, Israel’s, claiming all of the Palestinian territory.
Each one acts according to thd version he chooses. If there was no colonisation, there would be no flying rockets, on civilians who, we shall remember, have spent 3 tears doing a complete military service for men, and 2 for women, a training no Arab has access to.
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Geny
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posted June 15, 2018 12:12 PM |
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Quote:
Everybody is biased Geny. Are you going to tell me USA are objective in the diplomatic moves in the region?
Of course not. USA is a country with allies and political needs. No state is unbiased. But the UN should be above that, it should care about the world at large with no regards to politics, especially when talking about such global issues as human rights and protection of the innocent. If it fails at that then what is even the point of the UN?
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fred79
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posted June 15, 2018 01:06 PM |
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The U.N. is a gang, and if you're not flying the right colors, you're susceptible to being green-lighted.
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AlHazin
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النور
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posted June 15, 2018 02:59 PM |
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As you said, every nation has its own interests in world matters, and UN is a diplomatic institution created by those same nations. The bias passes on.
Around 20 years ago, UN played a better role than today though. I have to find why it changed.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 15, 2018 08:33 PM |
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The problem in this case is the LINKING. That's a very common tactic. Someone suggests a resolution, and someone else says, okay, but only if we condemn something else as well.
It's a sabotage tactic because in the end it may lead to everyone linking everything.
Note, that this is just a FORMAL point. I'm not making any comment on whether any resolution would be justified or not, only about the linking nonsense.
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