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| Thread: Donald Trump recognizes AlQods as Israel’s capital city |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 15, 2018 10:42 PM |
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And I thank you for your support, but it's easy to shout "lies!" and "murderers", while sitting thousands of miles away and not knowing what was actually going on. If it was a peaceful demonstration with people shouting and waving flags no lethal weapon would be needed or used, heck even non lethal weapons wouldn't be needed. However, when people crawl to the border fence and start throwing improvised mines to the other side, they stop being protesters and become aggressors instead. And aggressors get shot.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted May 15, 2018 10:50 PM |
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Were you there at the border? Did you see it happen? Then I might believe a bit.
But there is oddly never any good footage of what is happening there. And you are a modern nation, it is not that hard. Don't blame me if I don't believe your goverment, they could easily provide evidence if they wanted to. If you believe them without evidence then maybe think your position again...
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted May 16, 2018 06:19 AM |
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Now imagine if Barrack Oganja would've done this. The kebab would be as nice and cuddly as the lambs they allegedly love to shag.
But hey, if they want to be removed by the IDF(for the 8794165764155th time), I'd say more power to them.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 16, 2018 04:56 PM |
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Quote:
Were you there at the border? Did you see it happen? Then I might believe a bit.
You're right, I wasn't.
As for evidence... I read an article yesterday, which I wholeheartedly agreed with. It basically stated that no matter what Israel does, it fails because it fails to properly represent itself. While the Palestinians take close up pictures and allow journalists into the heat of things, IDF puts journalists on a far away hill. True, Israel does it to protect said journalists, but war journalism is a thing and many journalist don't mind the danger if they can get a good story. Couple that with the fact that the IDF filters everything it has before release and evidence becomes scarce.
The only videos I found are in this article:
Link
The first video is taken from a thermic vision camera and shows Palestinians throw improvised bombs.
The second doesn't show much except for a few instances of Palestinians trying to cut or burn the border fence.
The reason I tend to believe our government on this, is because I've been following the build-up and not just the events where over 60 Palestinians died. So I have a wider picture so to speak.
You also mentioned high Western standards that Israel should be held to. I thought about this and I agree. Israel must be held to higher standards than Syria or Iran when it comes to human rights (which, by the way, doesn't mean that the UN should single out Israel and let the others be). But there's a little problem here. You said you hold us in the same standard as any other Western country, but off the top of my head I can't think of any Western country that found itself in a similar situation, so I'm not really sure what they would do.
Lastly, I don't want you to think that I am of the opinion that Israel acted perfectly. Like I said, I was not there as well, so I can't know for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if some things could have been handled better. But all in all, I think that Israel responded well and under the circumstances casualties could not have been avoided. Maybe lessened and even that not by much.
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 16, 2018 05:52 PM |
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Well, that "Israel fails to represent itself" thing ultimately doesn't matter when you have the US backing you up no matter what you do. Maybe going for the machine-guns and artillery counter-strikes which you mentioned would be too much for even the US to handle, yet all such "balanced" responses mean a few days, maybe a few weeks at most of media uproar, then everyone goes back to "that's the Middle East, what do you expect?" mode.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted May 16, 2018 08:31 PM |
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When you have some time, Geny, I will have you explain to me how the use of « precise snipers » leads to sharply shooting a dozen of children, called « terrorists » by your government (and by your ambassador at Brussels, what made her being called by the Belgian government to explain herself).
This and the fact that your overtrained army seems to systematically fail to control Palestinians despite all the skills and material tsahal has, and always requires to open fire at people. It’s not the first time, like that teenage girl your cops shot down a few weeks ago, because she was suspected to carry a bomb or whatever in her bag. Seriously, you can’t help but shooting when dealing with a teenage girl? You’re the only country that does that, the only one.
AFAIK you’re not Zionist, which means I can speak with you and not feel like I’m talking to some of our Islamists, and therefore I think you’re defending your army a bit too much, when even Isarelis themselves are denouncing their government for systematically shooting civilians.
Here’s an interesting read for you.
That doesn’t prevent me from greeting you, though. The others as well.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted May 16, 2018 08:46 PM |
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Who in their right mind brings their children into the thick of things?
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 16, 2018 09:10 PM |
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tSar-Ivor said:
Who in their right mind brings their children into the thick of things?
That's exactly what i was thinking. And welcome back, alhazin. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 16, 2018 09:14 PM |
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tSar-Ivor said:
Who in their right mind brings their children into the thick of things?
Terrorists do.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 16, 2018 10:27 PM |
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Greetings to you too, AlHazin.
I am not aware of any children dead from sniper fire. I know of a little baby who supposedly died from gas (although that has been brought into question), but as others mentioned before me, you shouldn't bring little kids into a hot spot if you care for them. There might have been youngsters shot by snipers, but a bomb thrown with a hands of a 16 year old explodes the same way as one thrown by a 25 year old.
Also, define "systematically fail to control Palestinians". The Palestinians did not break into Israeli territory, so the most important mission of control was successful. And inside the Gaza strip Hamas is the one who "controls" them. Unless you suggest we re-occupy Gaza and take control away from Hamas, I don't know what else Israel can do. The number of casualties is mostly proportionate to the number of violent protesters and the level of said violence. There has been protests going on for a while now. When they were more aggressive, there were more casualties, when they were less aggressive there were no casualties (or at least no deaths). I'd say that's decent control of an external force.
Also,
Quote:
Seriously, you can’t help but shooting when dealing with a teenage girl? You’re the only country that does that, the only one.
Really? I'm not very well versed in the internal affairs of other countries, but even I have heard plenty of the trigger happy American cops (cops, not soldiers, mind you). And I wouldn't be surprised if it happened somewhere else too, simply because snow happens. It's unfortunate, it's tragic, it's condemnable and it should be investigated, but we are all human and we make mistakes. And before you ask, yes, IDF investigates all of the complains you hear on TV and more. You may say that it is not impartial and never leads to anything, but I truly believe that IDF is a very moral army and by and large is capable to keep itself in check.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 16, 2018 10:40 PM |
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Salamandre said:
tSar-Ivor said:
Who in their right mind brings their children into the thick of things?
Terrorists do.
Bold print just as a reminder.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 16, 2018 10:46 PM |
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my question is, why is this a u.s. issue at all? what is the point in our involvement in this? how is it, that a foreign president(trump, in this case), even HAS a sayso regarding another country? i mean, wtf? the u.s. president isn't president of the goddamn WORLD. what kind of message is this sending to every other country? i mean, really? it's not good foreign policy, regardless. i'm sick and tired of those snows in power continually thinking that we need to be in the thick of ANYTHING outside our borders. ESPECIALLY when it has NOTHING to do with us. 
and it's not just the u.s.'s fault, either. every other country, especially our allies, have LET this kind of thing happen. where are the sanctions on the u.s., or any other country that intervenes where they have no business doing so(and don't give me that snow about "allies". the nations of this world needs to be trying to UNIFY, not seperate each other)? someone, ANYONE, needs to be putting their damn foot down. i'm tired of the u.s.(and any other nation) attempting to handle snow and snowing everything up because the apparent answer to everything is "see that guy over there? snow his snow up, fam."
to me, it's obvious that there are issues with both sides of this ongoing war between the palestinians and the israeli. the u.s. shouldn't have any involvement in such a long-lasting feud, period. we have no place being a part of that. we're not the world's goddamn police. we shouldn't have any authority over anyone except ourselves. the same goes for anyone else sticking their noses in this.
and regarding this issue, this is the reason why: because with us backing WHOEVER, they just MIGHT feel emboldened to treat their enemies even WORSE than what they have been(or at least, care a lot less about what they're doing). it's the equivalent to having a huge bully stick up for you. you're almost given a free pass to do whatever you want to the other kids on the playground.
that said, it was still a stupid idea to bring kids into this(despite the fact that children have been killed before on both sides. regardless, they shouldn't have ANY part of this). this quarrel is for adults, NOT children. you don't need to be teaching them the same hatred that your two warring nations have had since milennia. that snow needs to STOP. it's STUPID.
but at the same time, nobody outside your two nations NEED to be siding with either of you, as long as you both act like spoiled children yourselves. it's not OUR place to correct you, or to enforce either side. every other nation should be washing their hands of BOTH of you, regarding this snow.
i swear to god, i feel so incredibly let down by how much this world sucks because of people and their stupid snow-up personalities. we could be so much BETTER than this, ffs. 
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted May 16, 2018 11:09 PM |
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I'll just hijack the thread to say "Hi" to the best Saracen I know.
Oh, I still think Jerusalem should be given to the Pope, you can continue your discussion now.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 16, 2018 11:14 PM |
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jerusalem should have a mile-high wall around it with no airborne access; with everyone forced out until everyone learns how to play nice.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 17, 2018 02:43 AM |
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Edited by artu at 07:41, 17 May 2018.
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fred79 said:
my question is, why is this a u.s. issue at all?
.....
at the same time, nobody outside your two nations NEED to be siding with either of you, as long as you both act like spoiled children yourselves. it's not OUR place to correct you, or to enforce either side. every other nation should be washing their hands of BOTH of you, regarding this snow.
U.S. is very much involved in the Middle East for obvious reasons of resources and energy lines, it supports Israel no matter what and in return expects it to be a permanent ally in the region. All Muslim countries in the region have both anti-American and anti-Israel tendencies to various degrees, so it’s a mutual relationship of interests. Not to mention, there are some very strong Jewish lobbies in D.C.
When it comes to kids, it’s quite a sensitive issue, of course. Hamas sometimes deliberately uses them as human shield or indoctrinates them into jihad, in many videos you see 8 year olds waving assult rifles enchanting jihad. I dont think Israel is extremely careful about not killing children either but among the two, I think using your own children like that is much more disgusting than being insensitive about the enemy’s and once you put guns in their hands, you lose your right to cry about that. (You losing that right doesnt mean the kids should be killed, of course, they must be spared unless it is a kill or be killed situation but guerilla warfare and suicide bombs turn people quite paranoid and jumpy. In Istanbul, in Istiklal street where I used to live, two bombings by ISIS was done and I remember walking around in summer, involunterily checking if the people on the street had coats or not, were they overdressed for the season to hide a bomb etc.)
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted May 18, 2018 12:15 AM |
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USA might not be the best example Geny, as their cops have a tendency to gun black people easier than they would do to the white. A certain amount of Palestinian children get indoctrinated by Hamas this is true, I have seen myself 8 years old little girls being trained to rifle, been used as walking bombs, and the like. It’s still not their responsibility. Responsibility is from one side on the Jihadists who bring them into the conflict (happened in Iraq for example, they used to employ children to stand in the middle of a road, forcing humvees to stop and get attacked by rebels, to which the American army replied by ordering soldiers not to stop, no matter what. A lot of American soldiers had to drive on those children and kill them, and some of them became crazy by being forced to get to that point), from the other side though, responsibility is also to be taken by Israeli forces, who are being accused to get too fast to « the shooting option » even when they have other options to take in consideration in order to eliminate the threat.
If Israel really claims to have higher standards than Arab countries, it should prove it in those situations. More importantly, as stated above, Israel would take care more if the context was not so favorable to it. This is what I mean by controlling Palestinians, doing so with minimum shootings. As for taking over Gaza, impossible, the place is overcrowded and barely livable, Israeli soldiers would prefer go to Suria than to to go there, true story mate.
As to why USA have the role they have, Alfredo? Consider this:
When you’re in the international waters, like let’s say, in the middle of the pacific ocean, and you kill someone, you’re under no legal autho of any nation, but:
1-You can be arrested by the country in which the boat is registered;
2-... by the country of the victim;
3-... by your own country;
4-... by the damn United States of America. (And mind you, even if you kill someone in space, USA can arrest you, because as America said since ages:
-America: **** yeah).
Your country Fred, sustains itself thanks to its foreign policy, it is so strong that it can force international laws, it has done so since WW2. You can’t compare USA with let’s say, China, which has a different economical system that is « internal ». USA have a strong influence in the world, especially on the west, no country in Europe would oppose you because they blindly follow you, especially UK, but also France, Germany, Italy, Spain... basically, the first NATO. Take a look and the map of the countries who recognized the Palestinian state, and see for yourself how USA did not recognize it, and how Western Europe didn’t either (East Europe, some Latin Alerican states and Asian ones did). And btw, Guatemala moved his embassy to AlQods as well, do you think they would have done it if USA didn’t give the example?
USA supports Israel because from one side, there IS a Jewish lobby in America and from the other side because Israel is a tool to be employed to keep Middle East in perpetual unrest, because Middle East is veeeeery important to your governments, basically the region between Egypt and Pakistan. After all, Kipling named the Kafiristan (old name of Afghanistan) the « Big game » where the interests of the imperial Russia met those of the British empire, the latter of which your country is the legitimate heir.
Realpolitik there, Fred. Even if the standard American like you is logical in his reasoning, America on the other hand is very pragmatic. The truth is, after WW2, that the Brits were just as much as the Germans convinced that Jews were an issue for peace in Europe, someone logical thinking just like you would have chosen to create a state for Jews in Europe, surrounded by friendly countries, sharing the same social and moral valors, oddly enough it has been decided to send them right in the middle of the Arab world, surrounded by « enemy » nations with totally different social economical habits. You could say that Churchill actually agreed with Hitler’s point of view, it’s just that Anglo-saxons have a different way of handling questions. Where Germans use brute force Brits use their legendary « soft power » which basically can be summerised by: « getting rid of the Jews, yes, just in a different way, rather than sending them to the other world, sending them in another place of this world, on another continent ».
The first choice was Uganda mind you (just try to imagine Geny in the middle of Africa, lel), then they choosed Palestine, for « historical » reasons. The reality being that they needed a disturbance in the refion, and when Kurdistan failed to become that disturbance (Kurds share a lot of social valors with the west) because Ataturk did a good job saving his country’s borders, Israel was an opportunity.
Note that the deep problem is Trump’s irrational behaviour, using provocation after provocation and destroying all what USA has accomplished so far, he’s reinforcing tensions not only in Palestine but also with Iran, with North Korea, and with China. I fail to understand the logic behind that because all what’s he’s achieving is isolating his own country on an international scale, which is obviously not the best way to go.
PS. I heard that children got shot in our media and Belgian ones, and some of my Algerian mates working as doctors in Gaza said the same. Let me know what the IDK says in its final report.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 18, 2018 01:00 AM |
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AlHazin said:
Note that the deep problem is Trump’s irrational behaviour, using provocation after provocation and destroying all what USA has accomplished so far, he’s reinforcing tensions not only in Palestine but also with Iran, with North Korea, and with China.
I won't call irrational when applying what was decided before him and claimed by precedent presidents. That you don't like the decision, I understand, but I also know who like it - namely the jews. About China I don't know, I only heard he is putting commercial protections in place, but for North Korea you are just biased beyond rational, as he will be the first US president to meet with the other fool.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 18, 2018 01:08 AM |
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AlHazin said:
(happened in Iraq for example, they used to employ children to stand in the middle of a road, forcing humvees to stop and get attacked by rebels, to which the American army replied by ordering soldiers not to stop, no matter what. A lot of American soldiers had to drive on those children and kill them, and some of them became crazy by being forced to get to that point)
i was stationed in iraq for 3 years, and i've never seen this myself on convoys NOR ever even heard of it. i wasn't in the infantry, though.
that said, i'll read the rest of your post now.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 18, 2018 01:33 AM |
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AlHazin said:
The truth is, after WW2, that the Brits were just as much as the Germans convinced that Jews were an issue for peace in Europe, someone logical thinking just like you would have chosen to create a state for Jews in Europe, surrounded by friendly countries, sharing the same social and moral valors, oddly enough it has been decided to send them right in the middle of the Arab world, surrounded by « enemy » nations with totally different social economical habits. You could say that Churchill actually agreed with Hitler’s point of view, it’s just that Anglo-saxons have a different way of handling questions. Where Germans use brute force Brits use their legendary « soft power » which basically can be summerised by: « getting rid of the Jews, yes, just in a different way, rather than sending them to the other world, sending them in another place of this world, on another continent ».
if this is historically accurate(i don't follow history because it bores me to death, mostly; but also because historical knowledge with my level of influence means nothing whatsoever), then maybe the jews were sent there because whoever sent them thought they would be exterminated when surrounded by their enemies. from what i've read, the jews have been kicked out of every nation they've ever been a part of. and now that they apparently(i say that because i don't know, but that seems to be the popular opinion among the more intelligent people who don't buy what mass media is selling) have so much control in the u.s., it would be plain to see how they are getting better treatment.
maybe there IS something to all this anti-jew sentiment? if it's true that they've been kicked out of every nation they've ever been a part of, i think it'd be interesting to find out WHY; and then see if that directly correlates with what's happening in the world with jews today.
but to be honest, i don't much see the point in finding the truth about jews, regardless. it'd be more for a hobby than anything else, since even IF there is something to all the anti-jew sentiment, there's nothing that can really be done about it. i say that, because the same people who spout anti-jew sentiment, also claim that the jews have entrenched themselves so well, and have been pushing lies and propaganda for so long, that nothing will be done about them regardless; they are continually seen as victims, and they reinforce that(from what they say, anyway).
which is one of the reasons there's no point in me getting my panties in a wad over something like this; i'm nobody on the totem pole of power. and i never WILL be anyone influential, regardless. so my beliefs are rendered moot before they are ever shared. and certainly, with my track record of people arguing with me over the simplist of snow, i wouldn't reach anyone anyway, on ANY part of the totem pole.  
my own personal beliefs, are that jews, muslims, catholics, christians, and every other religious sect, all have their own problems; and no one group is innocent. but that goes for all groups of people regardless, including nations. which is nothing new, to anyone with something worthwhile between their ears.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 18, 2018 05:52 PM |
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AlHazin, obviously I understand that USA is not a great role when it comes to restraint, but you said that no country except Israel does that. NO COUNTRY. And I do take notice of such sentences because they turn Israel into this one of a kind demon, when in reality if you look around you can find others... it's just that they're not Israel so they don't have a spotlight on them 24/7.
Hamas organized the protests so obviously the way people behave in those protests is Hamas' responsibility. And there have been reports of Hamas telling women and children to go in the front lines because they reason that either they won't get shot and will be able to get farther or they will get shot and it will look "great" on international TV.
Quote:
If Israel really claims to have higher standards than Arab countries, it should prove it in those situations.
Well, Israel did not massacre them as if they were Curds, or used chemical weapons on them. Does that mean we qualify? "Minimum" shootings, implies that there has to be some kind of amount of shooting. So who defines which is minimum? Who's to say, for example, that what as done here recently is not minimum? Like I said before, it is right to keep Israel in high standards, but I can't think of any other country that has to actually defend it's borders so there is no place for comparison, which makes it pretty hard to decide what those standards are. Because standards made solely on paper by people who have never experienced the situation themselves will never be achievable.
And as for your whole story about why Israel was made where it is, I only have one thing to say... WHAT? After WW2 Churchill decided to get rid of Jews so he gave them Palestine? You do realize that there were talks about it for decades before that? You do realize that the Uganda proposition was made in the first years of the 20th century before even the 1st WW? You do know that it was declined because the Zionist movement refused to go anywhere but Israel, which is why that is what they eventually got? You do know about Balfor's declaration which stated that Great Britain approves of making the land of Israel a national home for Jews and that this declaration was written in 1917, once again before WW2and Churchill. Now, obviously, WW2 had a huge role to play in the creation of Israel, but as to all your other theories... WHAT?
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