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carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted April 12, 2008 09:53 PM |
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Edited by carcity at 21:53, 12 Apr 2008.
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I think they have changed that in ToE now they only attack your own troops if they can't reach the enemy. in HoF they attacked the closest creature. friend or foe...
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 12, 2008 10:16 PM |
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No, always enemy if they could reach and was not behind walls.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted April 12, 2008 10:27 PM |
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but if they CAN'T reach any enemy do they only stand there doing nothing or do they attack their allies?
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 12, 2008 10:35 PM |
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I never denied that.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted April 17, 2008 09:06 PM |
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sorry my bad! english is not my real language.
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Why can't you save anybody?
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HEBPEME
Hired Hero
I have TotE now!
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posted April 18, 2008 12:46 PM |
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Edited by HEBPEME at 12:52, 18 Apr 2008.
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Ok,
So here is my yesterday humiliating defeat:
Map: rat race (i downloaded it from maps4heroes.com)
Factions: Necro (myself) vs Haven (my friend)
Type of game: LAN
Necropolis hero: Naadir
Haven hero: Vittorio
Feeling after the game: Horrible
Moral of necro player after the game: So low he went to bed immidately
Moral of haven player after the game: Not too good since this was his first win after 4 losses
Anyway,
The map is a little weird. No mines at all, just dwarwen warrens and resource piles so it presented a bit of a problem for both players. Since necro needs alot of ore i had to trade resources early on and concentrate on finding more resources. I chose this hero build: ENL (intelligence), LOG (scouting, i was reaching for swift mind but wasn't offered arcane brilliance!), DARK (pain, mind, shrug darkness cuz it was either that or navigation), SUMMONING (life, earthblood, fog weil) and SORCERY (erratic, arcane training and mana regeneration). Funny thing i was never offered eternal servitude but nevermind. So cuz of early ENL i got to lvl up pretty fast. Everything went smooth. Captured lvl 7, 6 and 4 dwellings rather fast. Found some good artifacts and all and was so confident in winning! I mean, my stats were 22,21,39,20 !!! And vittorio's (might as well call him ViCtorios ) were 17, 19, 11, 12 (he had no ENL) and my artifacts were better. Still he DID have the ring of speed while i didn't have anything for initative (except for dragon teeth necklace).
Anyways the battle beggins! Number were something like this:
Naadir's forces - 500 skellie archers (i wanted to retrain them into warriors but i would lose much time to town portal and then go after oponnent - so i admit a big mistake), 300 plague zombies (i still prefere them over rot zombies), only 70 poltergeists (had some of them lost due to stupidity and miscalculation in creeping and thus failing to raise them from dead), 110 vampire lords (with no luck and soldiers luck i couldn't depend on princes), 60 master liches, 53 wraiths and only 7 unupgraded stupid dragons (whoever came up with lvl 7 necro dwelling cost should be raped badly!).
Vittorio's army - 550 brutes, 432 marksmen, no lvl 3, 90 imperial griffins, 6 priests, 53 paladins and 20 archangels (BIG advantage in lvl 7).
I tried to position my army in the way to prevent at least one large
unit to stay unscathed after the first wave of the attack. But due to terraing where fight took place, it was not an option. But because of my high stats i was confident that enough will survive to be brought back from the dead later. His archangels' turn - he moves in and slaughters 36 of 60 master liches. They retaliate killing none, ofc. Then it's time for paladins to do their jousting. They ran across the field giving me 10 creeps for every tile they pass They killed around 15 wraiths. Wraiths retaliate killing 10 paladins. My vampires killed additional 6 paladins in their first turn. Vittorio casts magical immunity on angels. My stupid hero got the worst possible ATB position. Even marksmen acted before him!!! So marksmen shoot and with lucky strike, my whole stack of 110 vampire lords vanishes! It's time for my hero turn. From all those spells i dunno what to do first! I can puppet the palladins but they were positioned that way that i couldn't reach ANY of his units PLUS his hero has a turn soon (cuz of empathy) and will make them immune to magic too. So i am thinking about the phoenix, frenzy, phantom forces and i find myself clueless. Mass slow could help but i'm panicking already. So i cast frenzy on the stack of brutes that he accidentaly left too near to marksmen. So brute's turn with luck kills around 140 of 430 marksmen. Good. And now hail to vittorio's secret weapon - the allmighty ballista! He targets my 37 wraiths and with 2 lucky shots manages to leave only 12 of them standing!!! I already knew it was over as his morale + iniative made their units act 2 to 3 times more than mine! He finishes wraiths with paladins turn. With archangels he mutulated remaining lich bastards. With hero he casts imunity to paladins. Brutes kill another 150 marksmen in their second lucky frenzy. Balista takes care of zombies and the rest was piece of cake anyway.
So he's basically done without any serious losses!!! It's embarassing. I want to toss an ashtray to his face or my monitor but i calmed down. And before anyone starts asking questions " why didn't you cast phoenix in the first turn, or mass slow" i have an answer: i asked my friend (and this was a first time for me to do that) to repeat battle just for fun. So that i can maybe try different aproach (i really almost never play with necro. We play random 90% of the time). So he agrees. Next battle, i started with mass slow but to no avail. Nothing crucial changed. His units still played alot more than mine. Even got lucky with paladins and slaughtered around 30 wraiths in first turn and so on and so on. Then i asked my friend to repeat the battle again just to make sure i try everything to prove that THERE IS NO CHANCE to win this battle even with superior stats and artifacts. So next time i summoned phoenix in my first hero turn but ballista murdered him before he could act. So after 5 (i think) repeat battles i realized there was nothing i could do. I just needed much more forces cuz that is the ONLY way necro can win against a light magic haven caster with empathy.
Not only humiliating but also disturbing defeat for me!!!
Please comment
Cheers
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 18, 2008 01:44 PM |
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Edited by zamrai at 13:48, 18 Apr 2008.
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Uh, what to say?
I tried playing Necro but I found this difficult against swift and blessed armies like heaven you write about or sylvan with high luck and morale.
It's hard to say if new Necro is definietly unbalanced but against some sort of enemies like swifters or strong spellcasters necro is at disadvantage.
If only liches were normal size (this big size makes them just useless against enemies that can reach you in 1st turn) and vampires were like before. Ubi just took too much from necro potential in h5 - not only necromancy but also creatures' stats.
I doubt too if there is any uber tactic that could let you win in this game - other than more creatures what is ridiculous.
Nice story anyway, I like reading about battle experiences.
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 02:07 PM |
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Reason for such defeat seems pretty obvious. You waited to long. If you want to win with necro, you must do it week 3, or at most week 4. And from the number of lvl6 and lvl7 I can only imagine that it was way past that. So, next time, rush him as soon as you can.
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted April 18, 2008 02:20 PM |
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Quote:
Reason for such defeat seems pretty obvious. You waited to long.
Yeah, that's why I didn't even write this.
There are two ways to win playing necro: attacking soon or when game takes long: taking over 2-3 neutral towns asap and convert dwelling for undead ones (large maps). Otherways you are dead undead.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 15:24, 18 Apr 2008.
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woah, violent battle.
Quote:
I mean, my stats were 22,21,39,20 !!! And vittorio's (might as well call him ViCtorios) were 17, 19, 11, 12 (he had no ENL) and my artifacts were better.
my friend use to have twice as good stats as me whereas we have almost the same level (he usually have 1 or 2 more levels because for some reason he always get enlightment) and we have visited the same portion of the map (in the beginning I only try to get useful mines and resources, while my friend kills everyone, but in the end we have killed about the same amount of neutrals)
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted April 18, 2008 04:11 PM |
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I Tower(Academy or whatever you preffere to call it) and i was playing against a friend of mine who was Haven.
One of the buildt in maps, ToE expansion patch.
Long into the game we all sent our final armies unto 1 hero and the figth began, the armies that both sides possesed was soo huge that the remains of the battle would be more than enogh to RUSH/Overkill the remaining castles.
Soo after a long and epic battle, i got too impatient and casted arrmageddon instead of Fireball(had ignite) at some point. The cast costed me ALOT of troops and my friend had anti-magic gear soo he barely tok damage from armageddon in comparision.
The killing resulted in 75-85% of his army and i lost it all....
And thus i lost!
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HEBPEME
Hired Hero
I have TotE now!
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posted April 18, 2008 04:15 PM |
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Edited by HEBPEME at 16:24, 18 Apr 2008.
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I guess i just hesitate too much sometimes. I am reluctant when it comes it rush cuz i always have "just more thing to do before i attakck"
Point is tho, that such a strange map with no mines and all did slow me down a bit when it comes to magic guild lvl 5 and some high level dwelling.
I believe this was like the week 9 or something which is considered pretty late but numbers were pretty high cuz i gathered decent amount of lvl 5 and 6 through necromancy (pendant of mastery helped a lilttle) and my friend did the same thing with marksmen training (in a non-rich map it is too costly to train paladins) and he had ellaine sitting in his castle.
So i guess you are all right. With necro, either rush or accumulate armies as much as you can. And also, i think on a map like this, one should abandon dragons completely! They suck anyway.
It was just too frustrating to watch him mutalate my army without my units have their second action! If i had staff - perhaps with mass slow, but who knows. That's just one of those "what if...?" storries
I will write more about my famous battles with a negative outcome soon
There are many - 
Cheers
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted April 18, 2008 04:35 PM |
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Quote:
I believe this was like the week 9 or something which is considered pretty late but numbers were pretty high cuz i gathered decent amount of lvl 5 and 6 through necromancy (pendant of mastery helped a lilttle) and my friend did the same thing with marksmen training (in a non-rich map it is too costly to train paladins) and he had ellaine sitting in his castle.
Well I'm not sure what you guys do wrong but on my first run on this map Rat Race (I played blind against the Teacher)
we had final battle day 37...
at that point my army was like:
13 Angles, 42 Paladins, 66 Imp. Griffs, 86 Squires and 151 Crossbowmens
my 8 latest games is on that map... very nice map to play (and I even got two 3 players game on it they it's really hard to chose skills/perks... (cause we always play diff. types of towns...)
fiur
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 26, 2008 08:57 PM |
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I played 4 random duel against a friend, and while I won more or less easily the 3 first ones, I got atomized in the last one (I guess he wanted his revenge )
I had garuna and he had nymus, and I got totally overwhelmed, despite the fact all his creatures called for back-up (except balors) he still managed to attack before me and I suffered huge losses before I could get blood rage points.
basically he 1st sent his hell stallions, which killed half of my executionner, then I killed most of them because I was afraid of the searing aura, but not all of them because of the raise pit lord ability, and after that, he played like 10-15 times before I could do anything and crushed my whole army without encountering any resistance  I managed to kill 20 hell stallions and 1 archdevil...
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Agalloch
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 27, 2008 02:05 PM |
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I remember when I first started heroes 5
I have played heroes 3 before and I know how the game works..sort of.
Well its funny when I first started creeping on H5 and i had no clue who was range and I used to wait for creeps to advance then swamp them..
Turns out not all creeps are melee..
When I used to not use spellz on heroes so I lost to an easy level AI because they had a decent army while I was still learning.. (I didn't play h3 much I just knew how to do basic stuff)
When I loose to my friends when they do REALY REALY advance tactics.
When I didn't know you could get Ultimate Racial Abilities so I though my friends were hacking when they had total luck ect.
When I though Challenging was REALLY dangerous so I adoived it completely
..The list goes on and on...
I've learned to pay attention to the game... all in all.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted April 27, 2008 05:25 PM |
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Quote:
With hero he casts imunity to paladins.
Now that would be a very nice spell to have vs. Haven  no more overpowered jousting lucky strikes that decimates your most important stack before you can do anything about it Can someone please make a mod of this?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 27, 2008 06:47 PM |
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unfortunately, the paladin acts before you can cast a spell in most cases.
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carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted May 15, 2008 08:51 PM |
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revive
I don't want this thread to die cause it is a good thread. so i'm reviving it.
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted May 15, 2008 09:26 PM |
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Edited by Thanatos at 21:28, 15 May 2008.
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http://www.speedyshare.com/819710284.html
I'm the orcs, thought I could win... Sylvan is AI. All right, perhaps he had a bigger army but I really didn't think I'd be thrashed this badly  I guess I still have some practicing to do
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 15, 2008 09:39 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:42, 15 May 2008.
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Hehe thanks. For lack of something better I will show you how crappy it feels to use a warlock with dark magic against a barbarian without shatter or warmachines and still lose
Sounds ideal hmm? But what happens when the barbarian has split centaurs, is Haggash with insane morale/luck, archer's dream combo and the battle takes place on week of might and magic?
Absolute carnage Seriously the first centaur with morale shot twice before the warlock even cast a spell. He even had sar issus staff to bypass resistance and expert sorcery but he just could not keep up with the 1-hit kills.
When you reach this level of bad luck you will be flooding this thread with epic defeats no matter how good you are, try it!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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