|
| Thread: -------> New Map:: Genesis <---------- |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Strider_HL
Famous Hero
|
posted August 17, 2008 10:08 PM |
|
|
|
So you removed a lvl2 dwelling AND Haggash? IMO, 1 less dwelling already does the job, hmm But the main point - perhaps you should be careful with hero banning and let players do as they wish. Banning Haggash puts on line Orson, Dougal, etc. as well...
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 12:04 AM |
|
|
haha... not really... ORCS are in a WHOLE other class on there own... UBI really screwed up with that town... Even with banning Haggash AND removing 1 level 2 dwelling... Orcs are Still far far superior that all other towns..
Even with those changes... after todays game vs. them.. I have decided to adapt a PERSONAL rule of banment for that town.. i.e. Before I start any game with anyone, I will be state " Orc town is not allowed for either player" If they cannot or will not agree, then they wont be playing Jinxer 
Only way to beat Orcs is PuppetMaster, and it sucks to HAVE to take dark.. and constantly worry if you will actually get the spell in Utopia etc.
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 08:27 AM |
|
|
Hmm why was Jhora banned? I mean she never was imbalanced or something, if there's someone I would be afraid of are the others that are banned and Ingvar that will be probably be monstrous here. Also strange to see Deleb banned exactly because it's not a short map and the ballista could easily be destroyed in the first turn.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Strider_HL
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 09:38 AM |
|
|
I guess many arguing would be avoided and game possibilities would widen if mapmakers don't ban heroes but leave the choice to preferences of players themselves. As it has been proven many times then our community is a place where no consensus can be reached 
After all, no risk is involved to map quality itself if mapmaker doesn't interfere with unnecessary regulations.  Human history has exhibited that the less control "government" has the better world is
Also, I disagree about orcs but that is my personal opinion.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 10:14 AM |
|
|
Unnecessary? You haven't tried to face Haggash there without dark have you.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Elit
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 10:20 AM |
|
|
Its hard to make good map (and you do it again) but easy to kill it with so many bans/balances. No offence Jinxer but you know my principles for maps. I will not play Genesis for now.
P.S
Maybe you can make "unbalanced" version for me
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 05:44 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Its hard to make good map (and you do it again) but easy to kill it with so many bans/balances. No offence Jinxer but you know my principles for maps. I will not play Genesis for now.
P.S
Maybe you can make "unbalanced" version for me
Weel Elit... I appreciate your kind words about making a good map, however I am not sure if its a compliment or not... since you think Hourglass is a good map.
And no offense to you either mate... but I could care less if you play Genesis or not. Stay playing Hourglass for the 456th time for all I care. Thats part of the reason I make maps is so I can have some small control over making certain balances in this game. Contrary to what you believe... Heroes 5 TOTE is NO WHERE NEAR balanced. Not even remotely close to it... So thats where map makers come into play.
Also Elit, you were one of the Biggest complainers about TOH MOD... seems any attempt to balance this game you are opposed to... and I find that usually the people that complain about things being balanced is because those are the type of players that THRIVE on exploiting the MOST UNBALANCED parts of the game. When a map is completely balanced and the unbalancing aspects are removed, you lack the ability to gain the unfair advantage and must fight on level ground with your opponent and that scares you apparently....
So bottom line... I will NEVER make any map that leaves everything in the game.. BECAUSE UBI has NOT made a Balanced game so its not possible.
-- About Jhora being banned. I put Jhora in same catagory as Wyngaal. Any time an enemy hero gets 2-3 turns to my heroes 1 turn... that is plain silly... and when you ADD to that the ability to rez 2 stacks at one time?!?!?! Tell me how you keep up with that when you spend an entire round trying to kill stacks and then Jhora rezes 2 stacks and then rezes 2 stacks again before your hero gets another turn.... Again that is silly. If not for MOTW I would leave Jhora in.
-- About Deleb, again she may not be that great in the end game, but thats not what I am concerned with... I am concerned with Deleb being able to take battles week 1 that were not ment to be taken until week 3 etc.. As it is with gating, I have seen inferno take week 3 battles early week 2 etc... add a super charged balista and that just makes it to hard for other towns to keep up.
I am always willing to listen to decent worthwhile contructive suggestions from Genesis fans that only desire to improve the experience, but will not listen to people who only want every map to be like Hourglass
Besides sounds like there are ALOT of people enjoying Genesis!!!
____________
|
|
Strider_HL
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 06:20 PM |
|
|
Quote:
-- About Jhora being banned. I put Jhora in same catagory as Wyngaal. Any time an enemy hero gets 2-3 turns to my heroes 1 turn... that is plain silly... and when you ADD to that the ability to rez 2 stacks at one time?!?!?! Tell me how you keep up with that when you spend an entire round trying to kill stacks and then Jhora rezes 2 stacks and then rezes 2 stacks again before your hero gets another turn.... Again that is silly. If not for MOTW I would leave Jhora in.
-- About Deleb, again she may not be that great in the end game, but thats not what I am concerned with... I am concerned with Deleb being able to take battles week 1 that were not ment to be taken until week 3 etc.. As it is with gating, I have seen inferno take week 3 battles early week 2 etc... add a super charged balista and that just makes it to hard for other towns to keep up.
I am always willing to listen to decent worthwhile contructive suggestions from Genesis fans that only desire to improve the experience, but will not listen to people who only want every map to be like Hourglass
Besides sounds like there are ALOT of people enjoying Genesis!!!
Indeed, Genesis is a blockbuster! Even though I'm still in the middle of 1st game on this rising star, I can honestly award a high ranking for it (especially with new amendements)
Perhaps I might disperse some of prejudices regarding these super heroes - Jhora and Deleb. Seems that our newest emperor has had some painful experience versus Jhora though in truth she's not really that monsterous. For instance, at lvl 20 her initiative is 11 compared to 10 for the rest of heroes (relatively speaking, Jhora has 11 acts while other heroes 10). Is this 10% bonus really a game breaker?
Deleb... well, if what concerns you is her early creeping ability then hold no fear - her fireballs "switches on" only at lvl 6 and has dmg 20. Gradually it grows but, again speaking relatively, she is only a little better than other w/m heroes.
IMO Haggash (if centaurs cannot be blocked) is more scary opponent than these two... Speaking of Haggash, shouldn't you consider also Ingvar, Dougal, Orson, Havez... See my point?
That being said, Jinxer is completely correct about mapmaker's opportunity to correct for any imbas as HE SEES IT. It's just his right and reward for the invested efforts And on the other hand, my friendly suggestion as one of many players who enjoy Genesis, is to delegate authority to players themselves to ban any hero besides Wyngaal and Urgath.
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 07:57 PM |
|
|
|
Haha, Jhora acting 2 times before the other hero??? Like once in 6 rounds? Deleb banned? Wtf?
|
|
sq79
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 08:01 PM |
|
|
The map is very good really...
I've played my last 5 games all on genesis, basically addicted to it
Boots of swift was discussion with other players who played there as well since it makes so big a difference.
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 08:08 PM |
|
|
|
Dunno, i just don't understand jinxer's view on balance. I used to like battlezone until he made those garrisons ridiculous.
|
|
Elit
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 10:12 PM |
|
|
Weel Elit... I appreciate your kind words about making a good map, however I am not sure if its a compliment or not... since you think Hourglass is a good map.
And no offense to you either mate... but I could care less if you play Genesis or not. Stay playing Hourglass for the 456th time for all I care. Thats part of the reason I make maps is so I can have some small control over making certain balances in this game. Contrary to what you believe... Heroes 5 TOTE is NO WHERE NEAR balanced. Not even remotely close to it... So thats where map makers come into play.
Also Elit, you were one of the Biggest complainers about TOH MOD... seems any attempt to balance this game you are opposed to... and I find that usually the people that complain about things being balanced is because those are the type of players that THRIVE on exploiting the MOST UNBALANCED parts of the game. When a map is completely balanced and the unbalancing aspects are removed, you lack the ability to gain the unfair advantage and must fight on level ground with your opponent and that scares you apparently....
So bottom line... I will NEVER make any map that leaves everything in the game.. BECAUSE UBI has NOT made a Balanced game so its not possible.
I think bigest reward for map makers is when many people play his maps. Look how many comments about your balance. Do you want ppl to play map or not? Me,Sq79,Samiekl, we all are active players and can play alot map if we like it. Why my comments piss you so much. 
Game is not perfect but we like it. So far i think your view for balance is very subjective.
Give chance to map. If you want to fix it bring more gold. Its very very bad for haven now. Are its balanced haven to cant use his main ability? You want to make Sylvan less good but he have his special bildings in second town and can get another 10% FE. From other side ban Citadela not give chance orc to build "Pile of Skulls". So where is all your anty sylvan balance? Its look not balanced for me.
World is not perfect game to...so dont try to make perfect map...its doomed to failure.
I dont plan to comment for heroes. Baned any one is STUPID. If we dont want to use some hero can make rule for it. How i can test heroes vs AI if he is banned?
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 10:28 PM |
|
Edited by Jinxer at 23:00, 18 Aug 2008.
|
Quote:
Dunno, i just don't understand jinxer's view on balance. I used to like battlezone until he made those garrisons ridiculous.
And by ridiculous I assume you mean cause I made them so you couldnt defeat them with only 7 stalkers on week 3-4? haha...
And I have NEVER faced Jhora at level 20... EVERY time I faced her she was level 28-32. And are you also figuring in her expert Sorcery into her initiative boost? So bottom line what is the hero to hero turn ratio with Jhora Level 30 with expert sorcery??
About Deleb... to be honest I have NEVER played with or vs. Deleb since she has been a banned hero from the beginiing.. But my question is... if delebs fireball balista is not scary at all... then why was she ever banned??? I would be okay with putting Deleb back in in the nextupdate, if someone could explain why she was always banned in the past? About Jhora, I also leave an open mind to her... soon as someone explains the hero to hero turn ratio with jhora level 30 and expert Sorcery vs. other hero no sorcery..
@ Elit -- The reason I got so frustrated with your post... was because you was not trying to be subjective.. your statement was something like... If you ban stuff I refuse to play it.! Battlezone took till version 2.7 before it got perfect... And I am sure there will be many more updates to Genesis.. But my only point I was trying to make is.. no matter how many updates I make to balance it.. NONE of my maps will ever have EVERYTHING enabled in game.. just not possible with the way H5 is made.
And about 2ndary towns and certain banned buildings... there is NO way to ban town speciaty buildings since the town starts as random town.. Otherwise trust me I would tweak the buildings better... again another UBI failing.
____________
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 10:58 PM |
|
Edited by samiekl at 23:01, 18 Aug 2008.
|
So you've heard about 7 stalkers break and think that's how is done in most games? Dude, dungeon usually breaks with hydras and 6 furies. It's ridiculous because you don't have the means as magic faction to raise your stats so much that it becomes manageable to break in week 4. Just ban dungeon and necro since the game is doomed to drag past week 6 and you like banning things so much. Even if i build towns perfectly etc etc i still have close to 0 chances to win as necro or dungeon. If you had any idea about balance you'd know that magic factions' power fades as time passes by. Arranging things in a way that necro/dungeon can't attack the opponent in week 5 is IMbalance. Maybe you should play dungeon/necro there and after that we'll see how many sets of updates battlezone will have.
PS. I faced a level 28 Jhora. With distract I was the one acting twice before she did.
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 11:05 PM |
|
|
well to be honest I cannot speak much about dungeon that is one of my least played town ever! But you need to be sending your complaints to UBI not me. Its not my fault that they made Dungeon so stupid... IMO making a town that only has a chance to win by rushing and hit and running is plain stupid...
About Necro.. maybe I just been lucky in my last several games with them... But I havent lost with Necro ever on BattleZone! And games dont end there until week 7+ And those were all won before I even learned about the power of the Bird! I cant imagine ever losing with them on BattleZone now that I know about the power of the Bird!
____________
|
|
samiekl
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 11:14 PM |
|
Edited by samiekl at 23:19, 18 Aug 2008.
|
UBI made a good game with tote. You make the map as the games is, not the game as a map is.
Players with equal skill (suppose they have it equal), one with necro/dungeon and other with any other town. Battle week 7. No chance for necro/dungeon.
Dungeon and necro are rushing factions.Point. Dungeon doesn't need to hit and run if battle takes place in week 4-5. But on week 7 hit and run is almost a must if you want to win (supposedly you CAN do it, since h5 is the only heroes game where HNR IS COUNTERABLE). And when people are being hit and ran in a week 7 fight they start opening threads about codes of honor.
|
|
Elit
Famous Hero
|
|
posted August 18, 2008 11:38 PM |
|
|
Wake up Jinxer. Sorry i dont have coffee for you
Look simple facts
From all emperors games:
BattleZone 37 games total
Hourglas 343 games total
From all Lords games:
BattleZone: 31 games total
Hourglas: 361 games total
Here is not includet your personal stats. You have 57 games on BattleZone and 17 on old version on HG.
Why ppl not play your "perfect balanced map". Maybe HG is alot better balanced? I can tell for me. I dont like your balances. Same will hapend with Genesis if you not learn to make just map, NOT NEW GAME!
Sorry for offensive post but i'm try to save your ass. If you cant understand it i will not make more comments about your maps.
|
|
Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
|
|
posted August 19, 2008 12:01 AM |
|
Edited by Jinxer at 00:03, 19 Aug 2008.
|
Quote:
i will not make more comments about your maps.
That is the Best smartest thing you have ever said ELIT!! Thank you SOOO much!
And for the record I never said Any of my Maps were better then any others maps. I really enjoyed HourGlass the first 17 times I played it.. but Hourglass map is the type of map that after soo many plays it becomes patternable and exact same game over and over. Same paths same memorized patterns etc.. That just isnt what I consider fun... Obviously there are people that enjoy that type of thing. And they re entitled to that right.
Besides now who is getting pi$$ed ?? Who peed in your cherios? If you dont like Genesis, then dont play it. I wont lose sleep.. And saving my A$$? lol... Dont flatter yourself elit. I am sure I will manage just fine in life with out you... and I am sure Genesis will do just fine also without the great saver Elit. But I do appreicate you attempt at Humor
Now lets get this post back on track... now that Genesis-v1.0 is posted I am waiting for some serious feedback. And some more discussion about Jhora and Deleb... still might put them back in once I hear some more debate on them
____________
|
|
MysticPhoenix
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted August 19, 2008 12:41 AM |
|
|
Deleb was patched/edited, when Tote/1.6 came out. Maybe already earlier. In the past, Fireball was a huge boost from the beginning, after they changed the formula, it really starts nit before a higher level to be effective.
On Genesis, green player ca get one of the ore piles without taking the mine, haven't checked for teal. Only a minor issue, but if you update it, you can correct it.
No opinion on the text message with the arch lords?
PS: In German community I barely know anybody who played Hourglass more than once or twice, Battlezone however was played very often, and it seems that Genesis will too.
____________
|
|
Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
|
|
posted August 19, 2008 12:48 AM |
|
|
Quote:
And some more discussion about Jhora and Deleb... still might put them back in once I hear some more debate on them
Deleb was seriously imbalanced in earlier versions, like defeating 30 unicorns with simple tent and 2 shot ballista, and a bunch of demons (20-30), the bonus area fire damage was too high. Now, this bonus damage is 20 on lvl6, which, with even a triple ballista is only +60 damage, which is still nice, but isn't gamebreaking, and won't do week3 fights on week 1 for you . Also I do think that Grok is still better than deleb even in small maps.
|
|
|
|
