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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 05, 2011 01:20 PM |
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Or simply a pointless prejudice with absolutely no rational reason behind that.
You'd be surprised of how much "ordinary" citizen is capable of if he doesn't feel the law's hand forcing down his neck. Most wars proven this. People can be easily turned into monsters, and not against their will. Societies keep such people in place. Every time a genocidal dictate appeared, there were countless people that suddenly were up to medical pseudo-experiments, ethic cleanses and simple, sadistic terror on civilians. Dare I say, the Ukrainian liberation army (or whatever the correct name is) of WW2 was a good example, as people that murdered 50.000 Polish civilians using methods that even made Nazi look like little kittens didn't came out of nowhere. They were ordinary civilians before the war.
A lot of people is simply _evil_. In every nation. It's not just Americans, and not just Bin Laden, and not just radical movements. Just because they are suppressed doesn't mean they are not living next to you.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 05, 2011 01:26 PM |
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I lived during 19 years in Romania, which is a highly anti semite country, and had to hear several times a day my father preaching about jews being the evil. However, it did not disturb him at all to have jew pupils, as long as they payed him. I never saw him acting in an impolite way regardless the race.
In his twisted mind, "the evil jews" were some entities up there, ruling the world from their throne, not the flesh made people he meet every day. A paradox, but which tells a lot about primary racism and if it is really dangerous or not. Often it is just a reason to keep complaining about something.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 05, 2011 01:31 PM |
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Quote:
Bin Laden is the natural product of the imperialistic foreign politic handled by USA in the last decades.
How I love the silly "product theories", humans are like computers after all, 10010111001001 just commands there is no such thing as choice, it's not like we have a saying in our actions, we are just products... Person A molested, raped and killed 21 kids but hey the poor thing was molested as a child so it's not his fault, person B got bullied in school so he picked up a gun and gunned down 20 students but it's not his fault after all he is just a product.
As stated before silly theories and lame excuses, nothing more
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 05, 2011 01:36 PM |
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Ok, I will no longer spoil your macabre joy by killing the bad guy. If you think the problem is solved, live with it 
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted May 05, 2011 01:45 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 13:47, 05 May 2011.
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Quote:
Why are we blaming the Americans, as if our countries were any different in the past when they had more presence.
I'm pretty certain none of us here have a problem with the American people, just the part of it that so strongly and unwaveringly believes they're right about everything and better than the rest of the world.
I have an identical attitude to Serbs who are like that too. Basically can't stand chauvinists anywhere. It's just that the American ones are currently the loudest.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 05, 2011 01:57 PM |
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Quote:
Ok, I will no longer spoil your macabre joy by killing the bad guy. If you think the problem is solved, live with it
I don't think anything has been solved I just think you tend to lie to yourself, that's all.
Osama wouldn't be what he is unless the west made him that, it has nothing to do with his personality
Your dad hates jews but it's only so he'll have something to complain about, you're right it's not because he's a racist, I bet he loves colored people as well
Bad actions = excuses, it's a clear pattern of a person who chooses not to accept the purest of all truths WE ARE ALL DEFINED BY OUR ACTIONS, world is full of asses of all colors, it's just the way it is and excuses will always be nothing more than... well, excuses
and serbs have karadjordjeva snicla so it's ok to be delusional baklava boy, love yourself more 
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 05, 2011 03:04 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 14:32, 06 May 2011.
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Quote:
Bin Laden is the natural product of the imperialistic foreign politic handled by USA in the last decades. Him self defines as such, and it is not so hard to collect evidence. Of course, it is easier for americains just to eliminate him and cheer his death, then continue exactly in the same way as before, thus creating another or more than one Bin Laden, which will be hunted and eliminated as well.
Still waiting to read someone's comments here about: "What should we change to avoid such monstrosities occur?". But none, nobody seems believing something was utterly wrong. My bad if raising this problem makes you automatically think "he is american hater so I don't listen". Then don't and history will repeat again.
A rape victim did not cause her own rape. When a nation is the victim of terrorism it is not the nation's fault. America did nothing to deserve or cause the terrorist attacks on her.
Please note that jihad is not supported by most Muslims. Click here for a news report on what is called "radical Islam."
Moderate Muslims do not agree with the actions of Osama ben Laden and other jihadists. America is not at war with Islam. America is at war with people like Osama bin Laden who teach "radical Islam" that demands that everyone submit to the Qu'ran or die.
The terrorist attacks on other Muslim nations by Osama ben Laden and other terrorists are because the radical Islamists are "purging" Islam of those who don't agree with them and trying to destabilize the governments of those nations in order to place an Islamic cleric who believes in the tenets of radical Islam in charge.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted May 05, 2011 03:23 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 16:04, 05 May 2011.
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Well, fair enough, Smithy, but the fact that us Serbs are the greatest people in the world still doesn't make it ok for us to brag about it.
Elodin, mate, they weren't cops chasing a dealer. They were a squad of SEALs capturing an important international criminal. They ought to be a tad more professional than shooting him because "he appeared to reach for a gun". Even if they did ignore common sense entirely and thought he was actually going to attack them with a gun, they could've shot him in the arm. The idea, therefore, obviously wasn't to catch him alive in the first place. Either that, or the SEALs are the poorest excuse for a special force I've ever seen.
So you didn't really answer my question. Not that I'm forcing you to do it. I'm just kind of interested about how you'll Christianize murdering Osama.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 05, 2011 04:23 PM |
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Yes Salamandre, but alot of Americans dont care to follow what is going on in the politics.
All they know was America was attacked & innocent people perished.
I GUESS naturally the first thing to come to mind when hearing about Bin Ladin's death is "YES FINALLY WOOHOO! Yea the whole night celebration did not have to happen. We looked like them. When they celebrated the attack.
Maybe it was the time of the moment.
Also I think to some there are racism in ways.
With all the hatred the Middle east & disrespect they have for Americans. Yea there is def hatred towards them.
Same with the Japanese in world war two.
Any American natives living in America during that time did not have the best of life as well.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 05, 2011 04:28 PM |
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Quote:
So you didn't really answer my question. Not that I'm forcing you to do it. I'm just kind of interested about how you'll Christianize murdering Osama.
Let's see... Elodin's "logic" is rather simple so:
it was no vengeance, but merciful and just penalty
it was not murder because Osama attacked first
it was fair to kill an unarmed man because he killed unarmed people first
it was self-defense, doesn't matter that it was on the territory of another country and in a guy's private home, it's still self defense.
it was prevention kill, not deliberate murder.
He'll probably throw in the Bible quotes to prove those points too.
Spared you the obvious answer, you can now jump to less-obvious comment on those "truths".
Oh, and Elodin. On that prevention thingy... are you aware of what SIOP-62 is?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 05, 2011 04:35 PM |
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You can not Christianize death LOL. This is war.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 05, 2011 04:41 PM |
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Quote:
Bin Laden is the product of thinking that all must point their faces towards Mecca, put their butts in the air, or die.
Sure Elodin, and why they believe that? Let me guess, they read a different book than yours, didn't they? Oh, nice example of tolerance of religious views you show there.
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Era II mods and utilities
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bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
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Nerf Herder
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posted May 05, 2011 05:52 PM |
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I don't understand people that argue against killing terrorists specifically from a cruelty perspective. Somebody like Osama would need to be contained indefinitely, and in a max security institution at that; you can't just stick him in with the cat burglars and the rapists. Compared to the absolute neutrality of death, Osama would presumably be in a state of misery, bitterness, and contempt for the rest of his days in his cell, robbed of the freedom to truly live his life. And yet, for many, there is an indoctrinated psychological shroud hovering over the notion of death, where it is believed that transitioning a person from being animate to inanimate is somehow considered a more grave offense than purposely keeping them animated in a state of suffering. How can you possibly believe this?
I'm against killing people if at all possible (as well as against the death penalty) although my reasons are completely separate from the humanitarian argument. The humanitarian argument is ludicrous IMO, for the reason I gave above.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 05, 2011 06:34 PM |
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Quote:
Fauch, I don't agree. I think the early concept of the "most famous country of the human rights" must evolve and adapt to the whole world actual movement. So far, France opened its doors to the biggest massive immigration phenomenon one can see, and gave them aids and rights they could not find anywhere else. The countenance limit was reached at some point. The exceptional health care and social facilities France propose can't handle with unlimited immigration. If they went to USA, they would be burglars today, with the deficient health care and social aids they can barely give, after investing every penny in military.
yeah, that's a good point, sometimes seems like every single person on this planet dreams to either live in France or in USA. I don't know, maybe in their religious books, the paradise is actually called France?
actually, I was thinking about many comments I read on Internet, probably from easily manipulable people. the kind who read in the newspapers that a gang of romanian has commited thefts or that some african guys is living from social aids, and they think that all strangers are like that, taking advantage from us while giving nothing in return.
wait? you are romanian? go back to your country, you lazy parasite and theft. 
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 05, 2011 06:54 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 18:57, 05 May 2011.
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@Baklava
Quote:
So you didn't really answer my question. Not that I'm forcing you to do it. I'm just kind of interested about how you'll Christianize murdering Osama.
Actually I did answer your question. I'll repeat your question for reference and elaborate on my answer.
Baklava "Speaking of which, Elodin, does killing an unarmed man - in front of his daughter - when you're a squad of "elite", "professional" special forces qualify as murder in your book?"
No, my friend, killing a known murderer who refuses to surrender and who instead reaches for a weapon is not murder.
Bin Laden was the murderer, not the Navy Seals. The Seals are brave American heroes who risked their lives to stop the mass murderer. Seals are very much professionals and are the world's best special forces.
I'm sure liberal professors across the world are standing in front of their classes at this very moment theorycrafting and explaining to ther class why America is evil and saying that the Seals should have shot the pinkie off Osama's right hand when he went for the gun. But lets look at things from a real world perspective, shall we?
The mass murderer Osama was a fugitive from justice. You see, my friend, the Seals went into the compound to apprehend a known violent criminal. A person who was already guilty of thousands of murders. They fought their way through the compound, room by room and their lives were in jeopardy every step of the way.
When they entered the room where the mass murderer was they came under attack again. While we don't know all the details yet, we do know that Osamas's wife rushed them and Osama appeared to be going for a gun.
Now, I realize that liberal professors will claim Osama could have been going for a gun for any number of reasons. For instance maybe he wanted to get the gun and hand it to the Seals. Maybe he wanted to clean the gun. Or maybe he just wanted to hold it and admire it. But you see, Bak, those scenarios just are not realistic. The Seals, unlike liberal professors, are not ignorant of the real word. They knew when the mass murderer refused to put his hands in the air and instead went for the gun (while his wife was rushing them) that Osama meant to kill them.
Now, I realize in Hollywood movies you may see people in gunfights aiming for and shooting off someone's right pinkie during a gunfight to make the bad guy drop his gun. But you see, that is not the way things work in the real world. If you try that in the real world you will die and the bad guy will live.
Oh, you mentioned the murderer's daughter being there when he was killed. So? Should the Seals have let Osama kill them instead? The girl's mother and father are the ones who raised her in terrorism. Mommy and Daddy could have put their hands in the air if they did not want the teenieterrorst to see them killed. Instead Mommy dearest rushed the Seals to try to buy her husband time to grab a gun. Ben Laden appeared to go for a gun and was blown away. I doubt that is the first kill that teenterror has seen. Heck, Daddy probably even brought her some infidels to kill for Allah's glory. You see, Bak, the Seals are not liberal professors. They understand real world battlefields. While under assault the Seals saw the mass murderer going for a gun. They reacted in the common sense manner and killed him.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 05, 2011 07:14 PM |
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Come on, you don't really believe that do you? You can't be that stupid.
It was an obvious assasination mission. Clean and simple.
They could have shot him in the leg like they did with the wife if they wanted to. Or shoulder. And after shooting him twice in the chest they could have not shot him in the head. If they had had the orders to.
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Adrius
Honorable
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Stand and fight!
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posted May 05, 2011 07:20 PM |
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I don't really see anything wrong with it being an assassination mission either.
Should've done that in the first place rather than invading the country...
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 05, 2011 07:33 PM |
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Quote:
You guys really need to get your head out of all the Cold War **** already. It's ok. You won. There are no commies on the brink of nuking the bejesus out of you anymore. Well, except for North Korea. And China, but I don't think they'd want to destroy their own future property just like that, so you're safe.
See how you were smart enough to deduct what would've happened with Iran had you not jumped in, but whenever the Soviets are involved, you get this awkward brainwash moment, instantly and helplessly picturing Russians as baby-murdering cannibals.
You've got to fight that. Once you shake that mental blockade off, who knows what'll be next.
Maybe you even start playing some actual football.
Well it seems I gave you too much credit--again.
You're really good about running your mouth but still aren't too good about reading and listening.
My reference to the consequences of the U.S. interfering with Iran goes back to when the CIA helped to overthrow the democratically elected Mohammad Mosaddegh back in 1953. Your nonsensical drivel therefore has no place. The Soviets were very much a threat and a menace and if the U.S. hadn't overthrown Mosaddegh and installed their own puppet the Shah, my question f what the Soviets would've done unchecked in that region is a valid one--not some paranoid rambling as you've suggested.
Let's take a look at your armchair quarterbacking Bak.
You claim that since Osama Bin Laden was not armed with a gun he therefore could've easily been taken alive. There was a very real fear and threat that the compound he was living at was rigged with explosives. We don't know the details and your conjecture in an effort to smear the SEALs who peformed the mission is bullsnow.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 05, 2011 07:39 PM |
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Quote:
The Seals are brave American heroes.
If you wouldn't be using so much pompous, bumptious words, people would like you a lot more, trust me.
Killing a person is not heroic, never. Even if a job that must be done, it's nothing to be proud of. SAVING lives is heroic, not taking them.
At best it's something that we should condone or maybe even justify because it HAD to be done.
On topic: I haven't been there, don't know the specifics, so I won't criticize. most likely killing the guy was something necessary, albeit if there was a chance to get him alive, it should've been pursuited imho. Let's assume there was none tho, it's easier than to judge the man who pulled the trigger.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 05, 2011 07:49 PM |
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This topic has lost much of its sense and there is hardly any point in "discussing" anything but just for the record - it will be good if the US side makes Elodin shut up because the whining Euros and pretty much everybody else have a very hard time trying to be objective about the USA exactly because of people like him. It doesn't matter if he's just trolling or is indeed horribly deluded, it's this kind of "argumentation" that makes people think that you deserve all the Osama bin Ladens in the world.
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