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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 05, 2011 07:56 PM |
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I don't really think anyone would be capable of wishing acts of terror upon people just because there's a guy who bursts in pompous patriotic pride on the internet.
However, the whole patriotism-over-internet of Elodin does sound rather funny. Maybe infuriating to anti-American people, but to me it isn't that horrible, I might giggle a bit after reading it, nothing more. Of course this doesn't change the fact that such "pride displays" pretty much never make people happy, and Elodin should realize he's not making any friends with that.
People should lighten up. US is a great country, and a great place to live, and if people are too pompous over it, oh well, who cares. It's not like they're hurting anyone with their red white and blue heroic tales.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 05, 2011 08:42 PM |
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As usual, a thread with a hot topic will turn into a bashing starting on page 5 latest.
And why?
Because someone, who has problems in taking critics (against his country, NOT against himself!) in a civil manner, crosses the line and starts with insults.
Yes, The_Gootch, this is directed towards you. You started the fire. This was not needed.
Is it really impossible for non americans to have a different opinion about some actions of the US government without getting "killed" by insults?
I thought "Free Speech" is such a big issue over there....does this only count for natives?
Think about that and get back on a normal track again please (directed to all participants!), otherwise I will close this thread and hand out some penalties.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted May 05, 2011 09:20 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 18:45, 06 May 2011.
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Quote:
But lets look at things from a real world perspective, shall we?
[...]They fought their way through the compound, room by room and their lives were in jeopardy every step of the way.
When they entered the room where the mass murderer was they came under attack again. While we don't know all the details yet, we do know that Osamas's wife rushed them and Osama appeared to be going for a gun.
A real world perspective? First "he used his wife as a shield", now "they fought their way through room by room" and "he appeared to be going for a gun"? What if next piece of info reveals they caught him alive and executed him in cold blood?
It was an execution. So what? Good riddance. Fellow "Euro cretins", what did you expect? Perhaps they should have asked the incompetent Pakistani police to arrest him, then handed him over to some incapable international court, give that monster a second life by turning him into a celebrity, and enable him to call for new attacks on live TV?
It was a high risk operation, with a bunch of children at the compound. Good job, Seals.
Now get the **** out of my country.
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shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2011 09:34 PM |
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Osama's Daughter claims (of course, we can't confirm if it's true or not) that the place was unguarded and also they captured Osama before killing him.
I will reserve judgement rather than blindly trust any source.
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Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 05, 2011 09:52 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 21:54, 05 May 2011.
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Quote:
This topic has lost much of its sense and there is hardly any point in "discussing" anything but just for the record - it will be good if the US side makes Elodin shut up because the whining Euros and pretty much everybody else have a very hard time trying to be objective about the USA exactly because of people like him. It doesn't matter if he's just trolling or is indeed horribly deluded, it's this kind of "argumentation" that makes people think that you deserve all the Osama bin Ladens in the world.
Unlike you and certain others I have not been throwing around personal insults.
If people become irate because I commend the Seals for a job well done and for being heroes who put their lives on the line in the battle against terrorism then so be it. Some people can't seem to tolerate anything except "America sucks. American soldiers are all rapists and murderers from an evil capitalism pig nation."
America won a great victory for the world in taking down Ben Laden. Instead of celebrating with her some people still want to spit in her face.
No, America nor any other nation deserves to have thousands of people murdered. It is shocking you would say such a thing.
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Kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted May 05, 2011 09:52 PM |
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IMO Osama should've been hanged like Hussein was. But what's done is done.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 05, 2011 10:13 PM |
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Quote:
Because someone, who has problems in taking critics (against his country, NOT against himself!) in a civil manner, crosses the line and starts with insults.
Yes, The_Gootch, this is directed towards you. You started the fire. This was not needed.
I would like to think that I have shown a certain depth of understanding when it has come to my country's actions and how they are perceived throughout the world. I am well aware of the ideals my country professes to have and how the actions of my government, both in foreign and domestic policy, don't reflect those ideals.
My issue isn't with deserved criticism. My issue is with a kid who's trying to paint a patently false picture of what happened at that compound.
Regardless, point is taken.
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shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 06, 2011 01:37 AM |
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Edited by shyranis at 01:43, 06 May 2011.
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People should lighten up. US is a great country, and a great place to live, and if people are too pompous over it, oh well, who cares. It's not like they're hurting anyone with their red white and blue heroic tales.
Agreed. The US is a great place and it does have many great people within it. Like any great nation, we should give it the respect it deserves.
Quote:
My reference to the consequences of the U.S. interfering with Iran goes back to when the CIA helped to overthrow the democratically elected Mohammad Mosaddegh back in 1953. Your nonsensical drivel therefore has no place. The Soviets were very much a threat and a menace and if the U.S. hadn't overthrown Mosaddegh and installed their own puppet the Shah, my question f what the Soviets would've done unchecked in that region is a valid one--not some paranoid rambling as you've suggested.
I'm pretty sure the Soviets would have done exactly something in parallel to what you described.
Now imagine how different things would have been if the US instead defended with Iranian Democracy, which by all means was friendly to the US until its ouster? Imagine if the country actually protected all of the democratic nations it instead overthrew. (Cuba 1933, Persia 1953, Guatemala 1954, Congo 1960 (Their only legitimately elected leader ever no less), Brazil 1964, Ghana 1966, Chile 1973, Agentina 1976, (In these cases placing military dictators on the throne, so to speak).
Imagine if instead, the US moved to foster the Democracies in these countries and encouraged them to flourish instead. Or, imagine that in most cases, they had been left alone.
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 06, 2011 02:27 AM |
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Is a single nation capable on its own to attempt redrawing world map for its single economic benefit, using the guise of spreading democracy to justify military action in oil rich nations, while it drains its tax payers economically? Rwanda was a much more urgent objective than Libya, in case someone has the bad idea to retort.
Are the consequences after such action enough dangerous to trigger a powerful feeling of resistance and seizure against the oppressor?
Are the USA citizens in such good shape and wealth, thus the government can offer himself the luxury to spend trillions of dollars each year for playing war games?
Such waste of resources and dismay of own people priorities would be unlikely accepted in the Europe you trash so much. To each its own, but a reflection on deeper levels would be profitable.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 06, 2011 10:25 AM |
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Quote:
However, the whole patriotism-over-internet of Elodin does sound rather funny.
It's not the display of blind patriotism over the Internet that concerns me, I've never paid attention to "patriots" like this as long as they thump their chests and do nothing else (we have a lot of them here as well). The thing is that tomorrow the very same person will support the government when it decides to invade yet another country for the sake of "democracy", overthrowing some dictator, "mass murderer" of whatever. The country in question will suffer much more than USA on 9/11 but Mr. Elodin and his kin will be living in their movie and will applaud their heroes from a distance. Not really something that should be taken as a joke.
Just for the record, I don't give a damn that bin Laden was killed (if he was killed at all, the US authorities are not helping their case by refusing to release the actual pictures) - in front of his daughter, wife, family, whatever. This was bound to happen. The problem is much bigger than this single man.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted May 06, 2011 01:00 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 13:02, 06 May 2011.
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Quote:
My issue is with a kid who's trying to paint a patently false picture of what happened at that compound.
Lol you actually bolded it.
Come on. You're old enough to learn not to run your mouth like that and then b*tch about the nature of other people's responses. Which have actually been more than civil, your initial tirade taken into account. See how you got Salamandre pissed off, since he wasn't used to hearing that childish (aw yes I bolded and italic'd it, biach) crap from you.
I couldn't care less about making the SEALS look bad. And this is not about jealously discrediting your glorious country as you're so much used to believing. I've got tons of respect for tons of Americans. Hell, I just awarded Obama a bloody peanut. And he didn't even show up to receive it. These guys, however, are believed to be one of the most elite fighting forces in the world, and we're supposed to believe they can't capture an unarmed 54-year-old in an empty compound without killing him.
Chill out with justifying them with stories about evil-base-self-destruction-mechanisms and other James Bond crap, it was an ordinary assassination mission if we ever saw one, which your government wanted to go public and make it sound as daring and brave as possible, and failed. From what we currently know, I don't see how any of what I'm saying is a false picture, and the only entity that did knowingly try to paint one so far was the US government.
And as you weren't there any more than us Europeans were, your opinion isn't worth a goat's arse more than ours. That's all I'm saying.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 06, 2011 03:11 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 15:12, 06 May 2011.
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Information is being reaped from the computers gained through the raid on Osama ben Laden's compound. He was more active in the terrorist plots than previously thought. Initial plans for attacks on the upcoming anniversary of 9/11 have been discovered.
Clicky
Quote:
Al Qaeda was plotting an attack on U.S. trains on the upcoming anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to some of the first information gleaned from Usama bin Laden's compound, a U.S. official confirmed to Fox News.
But the planning was more aspirational than concrete, counterterrorism officials say, adding that they have no recent intelligence pointing to an active plot for such an attack.
Bin Laden, however, "was more actively involved in plots" and "he was not as removed from the plotting process" as conventional wisdom suggested, the official told Fox News.
Intelligence analysts hope that the data will lead to the "operational piece" in this case that would include Adnan Shukrijumah (a one-time legal permanent resident) and Ilyas Kashmiri, who was behind the heightened threat level in Europe last year as well as in Mumbai in 2008.
As of February 2010, the terror organization was considering plans to attack the U.S. on the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. One idea was to tamper with an unspecified U.S. rail track so that a train would fall off the track at a valley or a bridge, according to a joint FBI and Homeland Security bulletin sent to law enforcement officials around the country Thursday. The Al Qaeda planners noted that if they attacked a train by tilting it, the plan would only succeed once because the tilting would be spotted the next time.
The warning, obtained by The Associated Press, was marked for "official use only."
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Revelation
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bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 06, 2011 04:48 PM |
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There were 5 guys detained that were taking pictures & video of a nuclear power plant. Given all the media attention that nuclear power plants have been getting lately, that can give people all sorts of ideas. AFAIK it would take a pretty heavy hit to blast into the reactor of a plant (a lot more than just setting up a mortar and blasting it), but apart from rail lines, power plants are probably going to be another concern. Not necessarily just nuclear ones either. It wouldn't inflict much human life, but sabotaging a single major power plant could cause a lot of harm.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-03/police-in-u-k-arrest-five-people-near-sellafield-nuclear-processing-plant.html
        
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 06, 2011 04:56 PM |
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Nuclear power plants have amazing security. Amateurs with home made bombs can only make them laugh.
Those amateurs can only succeed if they have an element of surprise on their side. That's why attacking civilians is so easy for them.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 06, 2011 05:03 PM |
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Which is why it's fortunate that almost all militants are poorly educated, extremely angry young men with messed up backgrounds. They're too stupid and unconnected to craft anything major. Osama was an intelligent and well-connected man, but men like that are very hard to find among militants. His type prefer to terrorize people legally through OPEC 
As a rule of life, it's overwhelmingly easier to destroy than to create. If terrorism attracted more men like Osama, we would be totally ****ed.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 06, 2011 06:19 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 18:20, 06 May 2011.
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Quote:
Which is why it's fortunate that almost all militants are poorly educated, extremely angry young men with messed up backgrounds. They're too stupid and unconnected to craft anything major. Osama was an intelligent and well-connected man, but men like that are very hard to find among militants. His type prefer to terrorize people legally through OPEC
As a rule of life, it's overwhelmingly easier to destroy than to create. If terrorism attracted more men like Osama, we would be totally ****ed.
Actually, terrorists being impoverished and uneducated is a myth. There are many examples of very well educated terrorists. The US army officer who recently engaged in mass murder at Fort Hood, Texas. The ring of British doctors who were terrorists. Terrorists from Saudi Arabia, where the standard of living and education levels are good. Ect.
People become terrorists because they are committed to the ideology of the terrorists, not because they are poor or uneducated.
Clicky
Quote:
The majority of Islamist terrorists in the UK are British-born, under the age of 30, educated and likely to be employed, according to a statistical analysis of all terror plots uncovered over the past ten years.
The Centre for Social Cohesion has spent two years compiling a database of individuals convicted of Islamist-inspired terrorism offences over the past decade.
Clicky
Quote:
Since the 9/11 attacks, 90 people were arrested in the United States on terrorism charges for plots or attacks against the United States; a new study of the group finds that 44 percent had prior criminal records; 61 percent of the terrorism defendants attended some college, including three who earned doctoral degrees; 64 percent of those college-educated terrorism suspects were engineering majors
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bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 06, 2011 06:33 PM |
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I don't know how much that relatively tiny group of 90 people would compare to every angry kid or adult that has fought or actively participated in some way in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Those are all people that are basically stranded to fight in their own little turf due to a lack of connections and mobility.
A lot of Al Qaeda militants in Iraq (or at least that were in Iraq) were Saudis that flocked to the area. Saudis are a higher grade than native Iraqis, but they're hardly highly affluent and connected. Attacks like 9/11 involve a ton of planning, a ton of connections, and a good pool of funding.
There's all sorts of ways to cause a lot of damage, whether to human health or to the economy & infrastructure, or both. They can attempt another plane hijacking. They can bomb the rail system. They can strike a power plant. They can do who-knows-what to a water reservoir or water treatment facility. They can release a gas in a large building's ventilation system. They can blast a subway. They can blast a bridge. They can blow a dam or a levy and flood the **** out of certain areas; some of them maybe highly urbanized. The possibilities go on. But having any hope of pulling any of these things off requires money, connections, and knowledge. Of course these scenarios and others have all been taken into consideration, but that doesn't make them invulnerable.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted May 06, 2011 08:49 PM |
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Quote:
Yea you can.
He is a wanted man. he should be taken dead or alive, armed or not.
It is war.
I guess a good example is pretty boy Floydd the mobster in the 30's during the depression lol.
They finally caught up with him.
He was unarmed & because of the hatred, the FBI did not give a damn & shot him in cold blood anyways.
Point is if he is a wanted man, you will take him dead or alive.
Regardless.
PLUS there is way too many speculations & two sided stories to speculate the truth.
Otherwise there will be debates & contradictions.
What war dude?I dont understand the whole "War on Terrorism",its bogus. The only thing I see on the news is bloodshed and massacre.
There aint no snowing war.
In a foreign country?
Would you be shocked if some special forces"Terrorists" would strom Bush's house and kill him in front of his kids?
Flag people as terrorists and you can open fire,its so simple.
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bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 06, 2011 09:53 PM |
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Does that include the common militant in Palestine, Iraq, etc? What's the criteria he used to determine a terrorist? I'm not referring to meaningless esoterica about "What is a terrorist?"; I'm just interested in the criteria he personally established for his study.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 06, 2011 10:11 PM |
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I don't remember, as I don't have the book with me here, but Here is part of the book.
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Eccentric Opinion
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This thread is pages long: 
