|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
posted April 09, 2013 11:35 AM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 11:50, 09 Apr 2013.
|
Quote:
There seems to be a larger growing feeling of anti-Christian resentment around the world. Is the end approaching?
"
Yes! Yes! Evil is everywhere, people are turning into monsters and the Anti-Christ is on top!
This is truly the apocalypse! But dont worry! Faith in the Book of mormon and the bible will save your soul but if you are a heretic than you will burn in hell.
Al heathens be purged in hell!"
Qeustion to religious people:
Can god defy logic?
If yes
Then we can expect god to be illogical and potentially malevolent. God then would be like Tzeentch. Un predictable because he defies logic. That means that any holybook and any commandment is nullified because god is unpredictable and therefore we cannot say god wants X or Y. By defying logic, there is no meaning in anything because everything is just a whim of God.
If not, then god is not all powerful and therefore no godl
If god can defy logic, than there is no reason not to believe that there are 523432 Gods, all of kill themselves but dont die and gjoregjogerjgoe because he can defy any type of logic.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 12:27 PM |
|
|
Your previous question has not being answered yet.
I don't have a child,so I am not qualified to answer it really.
I will try to answer this question in the following way-
in mathematics as science(the two(math/logic) are very similar) first you take the opposite idea and analyze it and ONLY of you proove it wrong than you conclude that your idea is a fact.
So these steps apply-
1.We take the idea "God exists"
2.YOU state Bible is NOT the quality source,where we could get definitions,logic thoughts and other needed components for our logic conclusion.
3.You should ignore statements like "God is almighty",because you say it is false,and we can't use false facts to proove anything.
4.We go back to the initial question about the existence of God and we say-existence is not connected in anyway with almightiness.
What is almighty anyway for you?I think it has no real meaning,so we can't use it as argument.
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 01:42 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 13:43, 09 Apr 2013.
|
Master_Learn I think you get confused easily, or maybe it's a language barrier or something... In a simpler way, what Seraphim means is this:
When Christians (or Muslims, or Jews...) get cornered by logic and reason, it is customary for them to say God is omnipotent and omniscient (can do anything and knows everything), who are you to question his rules? But the thing is, if someone is beyond our capacity to fully understand, there is no way to tell if he is not just fooling around with us. Maybe he'll send the good guys to hell just for kicks. Maybe his understanding of good and bad is way different than ours and the books are just a joke. The possibilities become endless (and therefore meaningless), since there are no natural or rational laws we can use to predict this entity and his actions.
|
|
NoobX
Undefeatable Hero
Now, this is a paradox...
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 02:08 PM |
|
|
I have told a thing or two about atheism and the scientific explaination of the creation of the universe to a girl in my class.
Next thing I know is her talking about it around the whole school and I become known as the heretic/satanist/blasphemer.
Now, the really nasty thing is that my Music teacher is a religious fanatic, and when she hears about what happened... YIKES! 
____________
Ghost said:
Door knob resembles anus tap.
|
|
master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 02:17 PM |
|
|
There are many ways to express disbelief and I think that the agressive way can lead to such actions.
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 03:25 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 15:35, 09 Apr 2013.
|
Quote:
Your previous question has not being answered yet.
I don't have a child,so I am not qualified to answer it really.
The older one was ignored so lets skip it.
Quote:
So these steps apply-
1.We take the idea "God exists"
2.YOU state Bible is NOT the quality source,where we could get definitions,logic thoughts and other needed components for our logic conclusion.
3.You should ignore statements like "God is almighty",because you say it is false,and we can't use false facts to proove anything.
4.We go back to the initial question about the existence of God and we say-existence is not connected in anyway with almightiness.
My question was beyond the bible. All religious with a god state that their god is Omnipotent, all powerful- can do anything imaginable and not imaginable. This means that god should be able to defy logic.
Now about your steps:
1: God exists
2: The bible and co is not a source of what god is.
3. Question, what is god? Of course there are many views about this. Deism is quite an interesting view on this.
4: Even if we ignore the bible, the notion that god is almighty is predominant on all theistic beliefs. God created the universe, so god must be almighty. He set the rules of physics and so on.
So in order for "God" to exist, it must be a being that is outside the laws of our univers and therefore must be able to defy the laws of physics, god must be supernatural or ultranatural.
So we get now to my initial point, Artu already pointed out clearly what I meant.
Either a being such as God is omnipotent or
it is not a god.
If it is omnipotent than for all intents an purposes, its agenda is void to human concern because we cannot understand such a being because it operates out of logic. We cannot understand things or learn from things that are arbitrary or illogical.
Of course such a being can make Humans understand if it desired.
In a scientific view, the notion of a god is impractical because it does not solve anything and there is no evidence to support its existence.
Quote:
What is almighty anyway for you?I think it has no real meaning,so we can't use it as argument.
Edit:
@Noobx
You should never disclose your beliefs in a religious society or in a close society such as a school. You will just make more enemies.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 03:32 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 15:33, 09 Apr 2013.
|
Just be yourself Noobx, what are they gonna do, crucify you? This is the 21th century. You'll find a girl who thinks being an atheist is fine or even better, you'll find a religious one who's into bad boys 
|
|
master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 03:37 PM |
|
|
I think I will have no problem with a girl,just because she says to me she is an atheist.
There are many kinds of them.
I am certain that in the case she is,she will be the attractive kind.
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 03:59 PM |
|
|
Which doesn't help you, because to really appreciate and relish her attractiveness you'll have to marry her - which will give you a lot of flak from your religious relatives.
Seriously, though.
If you look at the religions of the world, only the Muslims and the Christians have this drive to convert everyone to their belief. All else - even the Jews: not so.
Also, these two have the tendency to hijack the whole administrative part of a society, especially laws, to suit their religion.
|
|
master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:02 PM |
|
|
Do the muslims have someone in their ranks like catholics have the Pope?
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
|
|
gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:04 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Do the muslims have someone in their ranks like catholics have the Pope?
They have the equivalents of Priests and Cardinals, and I believe they do have a pope-like figure, yes.
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:04 PM |
|
|
|
They don't, they don't even have a church-like structure. It's a different kind of organized religion.
|
|
gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:10 PM |
|
|
Quote:
They don't, they don't even have a church-like structure. It's a different kind of organized religion.
And yet they still have leaders that function like rabbis or priests, pharisees or cardinals and a central leader of faith for a certain region, which acts like the pope for said region. They just don't have the fancy clothes or the obnoxious archaic buildings. (Jk... those buildings are awesome.) The difference is in the name.
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:15 PM |
|
|
|
They have but Mossad and us marines send them in graves periodically. Risky profession.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:19 PM |
|
|
|
No, it isn't. There are priests, there sort of internal ranks but there is nothing like the formal structure of the churches in the Christian world. In essence, they aren't very different from the protestant priests.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:21 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 16:25, 09 Apr 2013.
|
Imams are similar to pastors of protestants rather than catholic priests, they don't have the clerical authority to forgive your sins or anything. Similar to a Pope of Catholics or the Eukomenic of Orthodoxy.... Nothing really. There used to be the caliph but that's rather a political authority and nothing like the infallibility of the Pope. (But if I remember correctly, that was given to the Pope(s) in the 19th century or something).
In terms of clergy, Islam is similar to Christianity after the reforms. Solo book, solo faith.
Edit: Cheers Zenofex, looks like we wrote the same thing at the same time. It's tradition to toast a glass.
|
|
Drakon-Deus 
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 04:49 PM |
|
|
I couldn't care less about Islam. I've already said why.
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 05:09 PM |
|
|
|
You couldn't care less. The point of the phrase is you care so little it is impossible for you to care less.
|
|
Hobbit
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 05:13 PM |
|
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted April 09, 2013 05:19 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 17:50, 09 Apr 2013.
|
Quote:
I could care less about Islam. I've already said why.
That is why you care because you can not not care, but you are trying to care less.
So you care less about islam but cant be bothered not to care about islam, which is the reason you actually wrote that.
Nobody affirms a non stance because if you did not really care, you would not bother ergo you care.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
