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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2013 08:30 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:32, 08 May 2013.
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Nicely put Hobbit. Let me try that Master Learn thing: I recommend a quality point to Hobbit for his post in page 50 of religion thread.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 08, 2013 08:40 PM |
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Nice review,Hobbit.
I have mine version of the discussion going.
There are two theists and two atheists argueing.
Theist A quotes the bible and talks what god did or didn't do.
Theist B explains his personal belief,according not only to what is in the Holy book,but how Christianity looks from his perspective.
Atheist C don't give any credit of both theists statements,saying that they are not only false ones,but ignoring them is the right thing to do-the main statement-"Who cares?".
Atheist D,confident tha religion is a cup of illusions,present some history names and steps in the discussion with the will to reveal all the illusions and replace them with the atheist "truth".
I hope I get the correct form of the current discussion without anyone offended.
Although there are more than 2 of both groups.
@artu,there is a feedback thread for the purpose.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted May 08, 2013 08:49 PM |
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Did you know Terrestrial, Telestial and Celestial? Ok Terrestrial people do not believe in God. They will go to heaven. Telestrial people believe, but do sin without repentance. Celestial people have with God. Mormons teach. Sounds good to you!
I suggest we consider the subject. Luke_10:25-37
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2013 08:50 PM |
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Quote:
Theist B explains his personal belief,according not only to what is in the Holy book,but how Christianity looks from his perspective
So, can the content of the Bible itself and history of the church be considered irrelevant to what Christianity is just because of your sweet little desire and some FACTS feel inconvenient?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 08, 2013 08:51 PM |
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Quote:
As I said, each christian has its own subjective view and comprehension of the bible. That's why would be interesting to have more christian guys answers here, not only Elodin's ones, because then we are limited to only one personal vision. And because of that the thread becomes "atheists against Elodin", while is supposed only to facilitate informations.
Some passages of Scripture can be difficult to understand. However, the verses I've been quoting are pretty straight forward. Let's look at one of those verses again.
Quote:
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
To all the atheists who claim I am wrong:
explain to me how "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar" can be interpreted to mean that a person who knows God can hate. I'm all ears.
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Revelation
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 08, 2013 08:57 PM |
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Quote:
your sweet little desire
Personal insult,which if needed will present in the feedback thread.
Quote:
and some FACTS feel inconvenient?
That would be one of the discussion aspects-to see what facts have the discussion partners/opponents and if the facts are supported by evidence.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2013 08:57 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:05, 08 May 2013.
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Quote:
explain to me how "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar" can be interpreted to mean that a person who knows God can hate. I'm all ears.
Logical fallacy: We didn't say it can be interpreted as a man who knows God can hate. We said the only interpretation of that verse isn't "Man who knows God can't hate." In other words yours is a very vague interpretation and there's nothing in that verse which indicates your comment is 100% true. The verse does not say something as clear as:No man should hate any other man. As I told you before "brothers" can refer to many things, not necessarily all humanity.
Quote:
That would be one of the discussion aspects-to see what facts have the discussion partners/opponents and if the facts are supported by evidence.
When I say facts I mean facts of your religion. We say in your faith non-believers go to hell, you say things like "why should they" and so... Nothing you say is of ANY substance, you just feel like it and say it without thinking. Don't expect other people to evaluate things you say when you don't evaluate them yourself first.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 08, 2013 08:57 PM |
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It is you who conclude something I don't read in. There is also:
“If another believer sins, rebuke that person; then if there is repentance, forgive. Even if that person wrongs you seven times a day and each time turns again and asks forgiveness, you must forgive.”
So how God can forgive someone who is no more christian? In order to talk/communicate with God, you have to be one. Why would god forgive an atheist?
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Era II mods and utilities
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 08, 2013 09:13 PM |
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Quote:
Nothing you say is of ANY substance, you just feel like it and say it without thinking. Don't expect other people to evaluate things you say when you don't evaluate them yourself first.
About the evaluating part-its a process performed by different persons in different time,not as you want it to be-immediately.
If you think about the matter of discussion,you would ask different questions,not just the same ones,which have being answered already million times.
IIRC,one proverb is written especially for these circles:
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2013 09:24 PM |
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In that case, trying to reason with you would be a definite sign of it.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 08, 2013 09:27 PM |
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@artu
No,it just means you are not interested in another point of view except only one-the traditional old beliefs,which are more or less extinct anyway.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2013 09:32 PM |
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I listen to a lot of point of views. Yours are not valid because they lack consistency and reasoning, not because they are different. You say things like "let's combine Bible and Quran since there is discipline in the Quran and so had the Germans" WTF???
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 08, 2013 09:37 PM |
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Quote:
they lack consistency and reasoning
My efforts to place consistency and reasoning in my posts are not so big in the present time and in this discussion.
Just for the record-it's current personal choice/mistake,not a weakness in my world view,which you seek.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2013 09:47 PM |
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Very well Master Learn, but don't you think Volcanic Wastelands is a more suitable place to blow off that kind of steam?
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted May 08, 2013 09:58 PM |
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You mean the repeating circles in this discussion are really worthy of The Other Side?
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 08, 2013 10:02 PM |
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Ping-Pong, guys. Come back in the timeless religion which is Wake of Gods then shake hands.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 08, 2013 10:14 PM |
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I'm downloading some huge torrent files these days, just got a 2 TB hard disk, and since my Windows partition has only 15 GB of free space, I'm constantly using OS X. So I'm away from Wake of Gods. But I'll come back!
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 09, 2013 03:26 AM |
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@Elodin
Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand where you are coming from. I think the origin of the confusion is a simple language issue. I suppose it would be safe to say that - to you - the label "Christian" means more than just someone who believes in basic facts (who what where when) of Christian theology. I don't know what you would personally call the latter people, but given that the distinction you are going with seems to be as much spiritual as it is physical, it is no wonder there is something lost in translation when trying to discuss the topic with us heathens. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 09, 2013 05:41 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 05:42, 09 May 2013.
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@Corribus
Quote:
@Elodin
Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand where you are coming from. I think the origin of the confusion is a simple language issue. I suppose it would be safe to say that - to you - the label "Christian" means more than just someone who believes in basic facts (who what where when) of Christian theology. I don't know what you would personally call the latter people, but given that the distinction you are going with seems to be as much spiritual as it is physical, it is no wonder there is something lost in translation when trying to discuss the topic with us heathens.
Yeah, sometimes language gets in the way of communication.
Yeah, it takes more than a collection of facts somebody has in their head to make them a Christian. There has been a spiritual transformation brought about by the Spirit of God. A new birth as Jesus put it.
@artu
Quote:
Logical fallacy: We didn't say it can be interpreted as a man who knows God can hate. We said the only interpretation of that verse isn't "Man who knows God can't hate." In other words yours is a very vague interpretation and there's nothing in that verse which indicates your comment is 100% true. The verse does not say something as clear as:No man should hate any other man. As I told you before "brothers" can refer to many things, not necessarily all humanity.
It is true there is one way in which Christians are only brothers of fellow Christians.
However, Paul preached that we are all the offspring of God. Mankind is a brotherhood and we all should love each other as brothers. See the below text.
Quote:
Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
Act 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
A person who has truly become a Christian has the Spirit of God living in him. God is love. The Christian will love everyone, just as God does. "Sinner" or "saint."
Quote:
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
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Revelation
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2013 09:30 AM |
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So the Christian is either inhuman or brain-washed. We had this discussion already as well. Loving EVERYONE makes the whole concept of love and emotions pointless, because no matter what happens, your emotional reaction to other people is supposed to be love. Sorry, to have to say it so hard, but that's idiocy.
The whole concept is completely flawed, works against survival needs and is bound to terribly misfire:
ask the impossible -> people fail and feel guilty -> shame -> denying the failure - > pretending -> bigotry -> self-deception
Which is why I'm not Mytical's opinion that it's not religion's fault - of course it IS. And that's not the only issue where that vicious circle is active.
This religion has been made Roman state religion in an effort to unify the empire under one ideology, when it were the Roman LEGIONS which in a true example for brotherly Christian love held up the peace with gladius and pilum. Isn't it somewhat strange that a religion that is supposed to be founded on LOVE has never ever held any love for anyone except god? NOWHERE in all the over 1500 years of history of Christian dominion has any nation, state, county or town been reigned by love. Isn't that a strange coincidence? Is that all supposed to be the fault of the incorrigible humans once more again?
I really can't express how sick I am reading and listening to this. If we want a better society we must see humans for what they are and for what they are not. We must have a certain amount of aggression because without that we couldn't have survived. It makes no sense to deny that aggression and suddenly demand to love everyone. What kind of human is supposed to hack down a thug with his knife, loving the guy with all his heart? What kind of human is supposed to smear the guts of a home attacker and potential rapist of wife and daughters all over the walls of his living room, loving the fragger with all his heart?
You cannot kill people in emotional love mode - if you do, you are a sick creep.
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This thread is pages long: 
