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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 08, 2013 09:10 AM |
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THIS is also what Jesus said:
“If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 08, 2013 11:05 AM |
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Statistic means nothing with such vague subjects as religion, in my former country-Romania, almost everyone claims to be a christian, yet the steal and kill each other when have the opportunity, then go to church to be forgiven and they believe it works that way and sleep well.
This is double edged for Elodin who claims christians number is overwhelming the atheists, but then affirms when someone does wrong by one inch, he is no more a christian. In that case, I can count christians on my fingers so sorry buddy, you are almost alone.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 08, 2013 11:20 AM |
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Edited by artu at 11:53, 08 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
Please remember the statements 1) I don't believe in X and 2) I believe in non-X are not identical. One is a lack of belief, which tells nothing about the non-X. The other is a belief in non-X. Both can be true, but either can be true or false independently of one another as well (you can certainly believe in both X and non-X, if you find an appropriate X).
But in both cases, the burden of proof lies on the statement.
We've been through this with you. In case of things not falsifiable I don't believe in X and I believe in non-X ARE identical in practice because there is no absolute way of proving or disproving anything. And what the hell is I believe in non-X in this situation anyway, I am an atheist means I don't believe in (= I have no specific reason to assume) a god, it does not mean I even checked in the black holes and I didn't see any god. If you come up to me and say, I saw a ghost and I say to you "Bullocks, there are no ghosts" The burden of proof is not on me because I made a statement. Under normal circumstances, atheist shouldn't even be a word, it's like saying Adragonist, Agiantist and so on...
Also check page 23 of this thread where I object to the 50/50 argument.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 08, 2013 11:31 AM |
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Yeah, in Romania they all say they're Christians but they go to church on easter and when there's a marriage ceremony 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 08, 2013 11:45 AM |
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Quote:
Statistic means nothing with such vague subjects as religion, in my former country-Romania, almost everyone claims to be a christian, yet the steal and kill each other when have the opportunity, then go to church to be forgiven and they believe it works that way and sleep well.
Even if all people claiming to be religious are religious, the statistics (linked by Corribus and me both) show that non-religous people are not such a minority if you focus on wealthier countries with better education. Also in the link of Corribus there is a chart studying decline in being religious, it observes a period less than ten years and the numbers are 10 percents, 7 percents... That used to be much less before.
None of this is essential, because it's not crowds that determine what's true. (And there is no single religion that 51 percent of world population believes anyway). Yet when religious people exaggerate their quantity, they are helpful.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 08, 2013 01:18 PM |
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Edited by artu at 13:20, 08 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
Who're this "we" you're talking about?
We is "you and I" gunslinger
The second you in the sentence is wrong, English not mother tongue accident.
What you propose can only work in a theoretical universe based on mysticism. Statements that propose things exist and statements that propose things that don't exist are not the same in nature in real life because we use close world assumption about things that are unlikely. If it is very unlikely, we automatically ignore it. (Hence the relation with the 50/50 post.)
If you go into that building you will see the walls have been painted today and If you go into that building you will see a hundred zebras painted in purple have a different effect on us. I can, in theory, say both can be true and that we can't deny them with 100 percent certainty before entering the building. However the reaction of almost any person would be entirely different to these two statements.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 08, 2013 01:31 PM |
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So who decides what is and what is not unlikely?
If you say atheists should decide it,I would ask you why.
In reality every man decides what is (un)likely for him.
It is called free will.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 08, 2013 01:42 PM |
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In reality anything which can not be observed directly or indirectly and does not manifest its presence in a clear, unambiguous manner, is treated as non-existent until the above requirements are fulfilled. Capisci?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 08, 2013 01:42 PM |
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The sub-discussion is on the burden of proof. Besides I might say magic is considered quite unlikely by any person with average reason in our age. That's what the super-natural is: Magic.
And about free will, why should free will be something desirable if the alternative is an all time happy eternal heaven? Why should God NEED to test us? If no free will meant eternal bliss, I'd go for eternal bliss. The whole thing is so anthropomorphic, it is degrading to think a universal, timeless entity would design it that way.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 08, 2013 01:58 PM |
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artu, I've sent you a HCM with alink on free will. No use to stretch this thread.
Another thing. Why didn't God just create mindless beings that would obey every command? Because God is love according to the New testament.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 08, 2013 02:01 PM |
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And in all his love, he send those who do not obey him in Hell.  Try again.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 08, 2013 02:01 PM |
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2013 02:17 PM |
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 08, 2013 02:19 PM |
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In the New testament is written that Jesus had sit on many tables with people around him.
So I deduce,that He knew what to take lightly and what to take seriously.
I think many people these days take things with grave seriousness.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 08, 2013 02:28 PM |
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Try again, Z. He sent his Son so that everyone is saved and no one goes to hell. All you must do is believe...
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 08, 2013 02:35 PM |
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Quote:
All you must do is believe...
No, no, there isn't "all you must do is believe". You don't believe, you go to Hell. If you believe, you don't "just" believe, that's a nonsense. You believe in God, his commandments, you believe that what's written in the Bible is 100%, etc.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 08, 2013 02:43 PM |
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Nope, all you have to do is believe in Jesus Christ. We are saved by grace through faith. And if you are a believer, you also follow His commandments. That's all there is to it.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 08, 2013 02:45 PM |
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In other words, if you don't follow the commandments, you go to Hell. Which I already said, among other things.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 08, 2013 02:50 PM |
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Every man will be judged according to his work.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 08, 2013 02:58 PM |
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If you stop rephrasing the Gospel and start thinking for a while, you'll see that you're contradicting yourself all the time. If someone is judging you, then someone's holding you responsible for what you do in accordance with some laws. In this case, these are God's laws. So God creates the laws, gives the humans free will wether to follow them or not but ultimately holds them responsible and sends to Hell those who haven't obeyed the laws. Back to point 1. Really now, this is basic logic.
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This thread is pages long: 
