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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 12, 2013 12:50 PM |
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It's true you don't need religion to love people, if that were true we'd be hopeless indeed.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 12, 2013 02:48 PM |
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Quote:
Which is..what makes any one religion better then another?
I will try to answer your question,Mytical,according to my understanding.I will do it in general way,if you are content with it,I will extrapolate further.
I suppose many of us have read something about earlier civilizations,which lived in a certain places with nourishing conditions for a civilization to develop.
They also had their faith/religions,which they followed in their own way.
So when the moment of grave danger for their civilization came,their religions/faith couldn't contribute anything to stop death for the entire civilization.
Conclusion-
their religions had no real potential to save men,women and children from the BIG ERAZE.
Potential question,that follows-is our religions better than those.
Tricky question-as death of millions had been performed in the 20th century,I don't see how our religions ONLY will help to prevent our end of civilization.
I see it as a conclusion:ONLY the religion itself is not enough.
Let's look at it from another angle-
We have this thought in Christianity-
"Do to others what you want them to do to you"
In the scientific world it is called "empathy".
Exercised by enough people,it could be very strong tool to unite us as humans and save us from further catastrophies.
I haven't read the Quran,but I remember seeing or reading about their DISCIPLINE.
Following history lessons,we can see Germany has got out from 2 major catastrophies using and practising the german discipline.
If we combine empathy and discipline,then the tools for our survival will strengthen a lot more than in the current situation.
Conclusion:
If we take the better parts from both Christianity and Quran,we could have more understanding,more faith and more options to act before something dangerous is inflicted from those,who want it to be inflicted.
As an end of my post-we as human not only gather information,but we gather our friends,enemies,things around us and choose what to believe or not.In the same ways we can combine aspects of beliefs/religions in something new,which have potential to make us stronger,healthier and even wiser.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 12, 2013 03:06 PM |
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Quote:
Now unless there was constant evolving from the 'older species'..wouldn't the same issue with Adam and Eve come along regardless? IE inbreeding?
Not really, since the process of evolution would take hundreds, if not thousands, of years to change any physical or genetic feature. This means that any group with a favorable trait (let's say they have traits that will eventually make them human-ish) can still breed with other groups for the next few hundred years without any real problems, and pass on their favorable genetic information (likely an enlarged brain or the capacity to reason). It would not be a boom monkey, then a few hundred years later boom orangutan, then a few hundred years after that boom direct human predecessor. If it went in leaps and bounds, then the mutations would likely be unable to breed with even other mutations like themselves, since their genetic information would be so far off from what it should be that it would likely lack the ability to grow fertile sperm or eggs.
Quote:
Also a not so serious question. Why is it that people can fathom energy/matter coming from 'nowhere', but not a being coming from 'nowhere'? Why is it that some can fathom a being coming from nowhere, but not matter/energy.
Energy is a whole hell of a lot simpler than genetic material. That's pretty much my whole reasoning there. 
Quote:
In the scientific world it is called "empathy".
Exercised by enough people,it could be very strong tool to unite us as humans and save us from further catastrophies.
I haven't read the Quran,but I remember seeing or reading about their DISCIPLINE.
Following history lessons,we can see Germany has got out from 2 major catastrophies using and practising the german discipline.
Those aren't really the best examples there. Empathy is also, to certain degrees, displayed by domestic animals such as cats and dogs, and I'm pretty sure they aren't christian.  In fact, basically every human being feels empathy to some degree (including psychopaths, it's just that they get a high off of the fear of others), and that is regardless of religion. Instead, maybe the lesson pulled from Christianity would be about exercising religion in all maters before acting, especially before declaring a war or some such. Then again, Christianity might not be needed in this mater, since empathy exists with or without the continued existence of the bible.
Also I'm rather certain that during both of their economic revivals that Germany was not in any way a Muslim country, which sort of defeats your point for using the Quran to teach discipline, since discipline is already easy to learn and the Quran seems to be unnecessary.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 12, 2013 03:12 PM |
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fred: All you need is love, love, love is all you need. And God is love as well.
Peace.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2013 03:15 PM |
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 12, 2013 04:27 PM |
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I am confused about something, so bear with me. Somebody said if a child does something wrong, then the parent must have done something wrong in order for the child to have got to that point. To me, that is laughable. Lets not even take into account that people have their own free will. Lets talk about nature vs nurture.
have the best parents in the world, but influences from outside can lead a child astray. Take for instance some preachers daughter.
The father does not beat her, teaches her right from wrong, and loves her fully. She turns out to date only bad boys, gets in trouble, and even winds up in jail. Because children will often rebel against their parents. Now the father did nothing wrong, but his daughter is a 'wild child'. Why? Because of rebellion and outside influences.
So if you believe in a creator (and I do, just not the christian one), you have to believe that he has set down 'ground rules'. We can rebel, and end up reaping what we sow..or we can follow the rules. We have that choice. So the 'bad' afterlife would be like Jail. We broke the rules, we have to deal with the consequences. Depending on how bad we broke the rules..is how long we would be in this bad afterlife. If we don't learn and continue to rebel, we stay there until we can follow the rules.
The bad guy (if such exist, I am not convinced, but I don't think the creator is all knowing, perfectly good, etc) would be like a corrupt Warden. He wants his jail 'full', so he tries to convince people to break 'the rules'. He will bribe them by earthly pleasures. Money, etc. When they get 'caught' (ie die) he has more prisoners to rule over.
I do agree that neither scenario sounds plausible. A being appearing from nowhere, or matter and energy just appearing from nowhere. However, there is a 'starting point', no matter how distant. The interesting question is..how did everything start?
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Message received.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 12, 2013 04:33 PM |
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@gnomes,the question is not about the necessity of the religion,but which one is better than the other.
I am not saying "this" one is better then the "other" one-I just point some of the values religion is based on.
So supporters of the said religion would support such values as well.
For some people valuable lessons can be learned from books,some people would prefer movies,some people would prefer religion to teach them lessons.
Religon is one of the ways to the human heart.
Quote:
The interesting question is..how did everything start?
With the begining.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 12, 2013 04:44 PM |
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Quote:
The father does not beat her, teaches her right from wrong, and loves her fully. She turns out to date only bad boys, gets in trouble, and even winds up in jail.
And how do you see that happening if she has received a proper upbringing? She won't "date only bad boys, get in trouble and wind up in jail" if she's happy with her life. This IS possible to a certain point because there's no way to cover every possible situation in life when you teach your kid + as you said it has its own idea of what's right and wrong but a decent parent will not punish his/her kid unconditionally just because it failed. In your example, if the girl in question ends up in jail, then the parent has most certainly failed as such on multiple occasions. If you believe otherwise, you probably also believe that people end up in jail in a completely random manner.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 12, 2013 04:58 PM |
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Quote:
The interesting question is..how did everything start?
Very carefully.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 12, 2013 05:02 PM |
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Edited by artu at 17:03, 12 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
I suppose many of us have read something about earlier civilizations,which lived in a certain places with nourishing conditions for a civilization to develop.
They also had their faith/religions,which they followed in their own way.
So when the moment of grave danger for their civilization came,their religions/faith couldn't contribute anything to stop death for the entire civilization.
Conclusion-
their religions had no real potential to save men,women and children from the BIG ERAZE.
Potential question,that follows-is our religions better than those.
Tricky question-as death of millions had been performed in the 20th century,I don't see how our religions ONLY will help to prevent our end of civilization.
I see it as a conclusion: ONLY the religion itself is not enough.
Let's look at it from another angle-
We have this thought in Christianity-
"Do to others what you want them to do to you"
In the scientific world it is called "empathy".
Exercised by enough people,it could be very strong tool to unite us as humans and save us from further catastrophies.
I haven't read the Quran,but I remember seeing or reading about their DISCIPLINE.
Following history lessons,we can see Germany has got out from 2 major catastrophies using and practising the german discipline.
If we combine empathy and discipline,then the tools for our survival will strengthen a lot more than in the current situation.
Conclusion:
If we take the better parts from both Christianity and Quran,we could have more understanding,more faith and more options to act before something dangerous is inflicted from those,who want it to be inflicted.
As an end of my post-we as human not only gather information,but we gather our friends,enemies,things around us and choose what to believe or not.In the same ways we can combine aspects of beliefs/religions in something new,which have potential to make us stronger,healthier and even wiser.
Master Learn I decided that you are one of those refugee aliens from Men in Black. Reading your deductions, I have lost faith in the process of deduction itself. The term completely off has achieved not a new meaning but a whole new dimension, thanks to you. I'll go to bed now and try to choke myself with a pillow.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 12, 2013 05:37 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Master Learn I decided that you are one of those refugee aliens from Men in Black. Reading your deductions, I have lost faith in the process of deduction itself. The term completely off has achieved not a new meaning but a whole new dimension, thanks to you. I'll go to bed now and try to choke myself with a pillow.
lol, cheer up artu. your post made me laugh. don't choke yourself, try to consider what master_learn is saying, instead. he's definitely not saying it wrong. 
The problem is that his conclusion does not actually answer the question.  That's sort of what Artu is talking about.
Also, Artu. Bro. I've found that once you suppress the gag reflex, it is actually very easy to commit suicide via pillow-choking.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 12, 2013 05:51 PM |
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Yes,fred,usefulness and abiblity of religion to work with other ways of understanding.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 12, 2013 06:00 PM |
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Quote:
For some people valuable lessons can be learned from books,some people would prefer movies,some people would prefer religion to teach them lessons.
They’re not different ways of teaching the same valuable lesson, though, they teach different lessons. Movies and books usually don't claim that what happens in them is true. For example, if you read Harry Potter, you can think it teaches good morals even though it's entirely a work of fiction. However, if you derive religious value from the Bible, it means that its moral teachings are true because the rest of it is true as well. There are many reasons to not murder, but "God said it's bad" is different from, say, "I value human life and don't want to end it".
____________
Eccentric Opinion
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 12, 2013 08:16 PM |
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I must be having some sort of disconnect, or some brain burp. Since nature and other outside influences can affect how people act, all a parent can do is to raise a person the best they can. Teach them right from wrong, etc. If that person ignores them, because of rebellion and outside influences..how exactly has the parent failed? What, you want to lock up kids and never let them out of the bubble? Cause that is the only way a parent could be the ONLY influence in a child's life.
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Message received.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 12, 2013 09:04 PM |
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Quote:
I am not religious, nor am I anti-religious. I keep an open mind. Still have yet to have my main question answered to my liking, and doubt I ever will. Which is..what makes any one religion better then another?
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. - Galatians 5:22-24
having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. - Philippians 1:11
so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; - Colossians 1:10
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the WAY GOD IS WRITTEN in the BIBLE,QURAN and Tora and Co.
If a witness as Jesus. But God is one.
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We do wrong because it's in our (corrupted) nature to sin. Because Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of Eden. However I believe this was all part of God's plan to make man an outstanding creation, to make us all go through trials and tribulations so we may one day become united with God truly, after a period of learning.
For real? Since Adam and Eve were minors?!
She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy are all who hold her fast. - Proverbs 3:18
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.' in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. - Revelation 2:7, 22:1, 14, 19
The Tree of Life is in Jerusalem.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. - Revelation 21 1), 2(-22:21)
Hm Satan has found?!
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 12, 2013 09:14 PM |
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Holy God, Ghosty is starting to become coherent within each sentence.  HE'S LEARNING CONTINUITY GUYS! ... AND HE'S STAYING ON TOPIC!
We must celebrate this joyous occasion with much cake and many festivities!
____________
Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 12, 2013 09:23 PM |
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Yet another miracle from Jesus Christ!
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2013 09:30 PM |
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 12, 2013 09:34 PM |
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45 posts already since JJ shared last time the truth with us. This is the miracle, is he ill?
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 12, 2013 09:51 PM |
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Your guess is as bad as your counting, bro.
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This thread is pages long: 
