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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted January 06, 2012 09:27 PM |
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As far as Metacritic goes, Heroes VI has the lowest user score, even lower than Heroes IV !
Heroes 2: 8.7 (9 ratings)
Heroes 3: 9.0 (34 ratings)
Heroes 4: 7.0 (63 ratings)
Heroes 5: 7.7 (100 ratings)
Heroes 6: 6.4 (259 ratings)
Some of Heroes VI's fans are a totally disapointment.They just don't understand that these rewiews can do a lot of damage to the game,because Ubihole will look and see how badly apreciated the game is.There are some fans that give the game 0-4/10.These people cannot be named fans.These are trolls like Elvin used to say.So these rewiews cannot be trusted.This game has potential and deserves well an 8/10.
In my opinion,the worst of the series is Heroes V but
I like and I enjoy them all.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 06, 2012 09:53 PM |
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we need people to protest and write on their forum ( when it is going to be up ) and fb page, not just saying ur opinions.
There already was quite a protest before the release when the game was still in development but it didn't change anything. As you can see, we are still waiting for adequate town screens which they have actually admitted as a necessary improvement over the original design and there are no signs that these are coming any time soon. The community is pretty divided regarding the resources issue - as opposed to the almost unanimous agreement that the town windows suck - so the chances that Ubihole will do something about it are nil.
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cookie
Adventuring Hero
*cookie magic*
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posted January 06, 2012 10:18 PM |
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This is the worst Heroes game so far. Sorry but it is true...
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted January 06, 2012 10:19 PM |
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Yeah, with those kind of reviews you'll have a good number of people that will be melodramatic about their disappointment in the game and give it a 1/10 or something absurd, when in reality their measure of disappointment would translate to more like 4/10 or something.
It will grow more popular if they change the major things that are almost unanimously agreed upon as being bad ideas. Although I can understand that there is a good rationale behind not having a town screen, as it honestly isn't really crucial to the game in any way whatsoever and can even become tedious eventually, they really underestimated how much atmosphere & icing it adds to the game. They're easily worth having.
On the other hand, I have no idea why they don't have simultaneous turns. That had to come down to some sort of budget dispute or something. Introducing simultaneous turns in H5 and then scraping them in H6 is corporate trolling.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2012 10:23 PM |
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Do not be quick to discount changes in the future. The game has had some time to mature, show its shortcomings and more importantly how the fans have come to feel about it. For H6 to evolve it requires more than just a few balance changes and it will evolve, it has been for a while even if the fruit of our labour has not been realized just yet. This game requires more than just the missing factions plus a few extra spells and the devs know that. But the process takes time..
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 06, 2012 10:32 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 22:33, 06 Jan 2012.
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What the devs know and what Ubisoft pay them for and tell them to do are two different things. The devs were fully aware that the game was bug-ridden by the time when it was scheduled for release (and I mean the last scheduled date) but it was released anyway. The devs were also aware that the vast number of the fans don't like the town windows but the game was released with them. And of course the devs were absolutely aware that the game needed to be patched ASAP but the first real patch was released 2.5 months after the game. So it doesn't help to know that the devs are aware of something.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 06, 2012 10:45 PM |
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Well they cant change it now can they?
Adding another ressource in an expansion would be easy. Building costs could be adjusted accordingly.
Hmm.. expansion I don't think so because some people would play with 4 resources an some without the expansion with 5?
That's no different than introducing a new faction or even extra upgrades to existing factions as they did with TotE. Problem with expansions are that you can only play with other people who have the same expansion, that's how it will always be.
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What will happen now?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 06, 2012 10:50 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 22:52, 06 Jan 2012.
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Here is my suggestion on a new resource system.
I think that in the old games there were to many resources, so it didn't really feel like they mattered a whole lot. In H6, there were to few resources and it just oversimplified the game and drained the adventure map. The next resource system should find a middle-ground between these two and introduce a new tactical element.
I do not feel like the game needs more than two rare resources and the introduction of a truly rare but very powerful resource could be very interesting in both multiplayer and single player (with a decent ai).
Resource Proposal
There are six resources: Gold, Wood, Ore, Sulfur, Mercury and Crystal.
I thought that Gems and Crystals were too similar, so Sulfur and Mercury should return to be the two rare resources. Dragonblood Crystals have a good and cool background in the Ashan lore, so it would make sense for them to be the really rare resource.
Not counting gold and crystals (the "super resource"), there are two resource categories. High yield mines located in more exposed, war-torn areas are also included.
Common: Common resources are found in pretty much all areas, but a new thing is that there are now high-yield mines. A normal mine gives +2 resources day, and a high yield mine +4 resources a day. High yield mines are usually located in the exposed areas of the map.
Rare: Rare resources are also generally found in all areas, but a normal rare mine only gives +1 resource a day and a high yield +2 resources a day. Again, high yield mines are usually located in the exposed areas of the map.
Resources
Gold: Works like it always has. It's primarily gained from towns and forts. There are also rare Gold Mines that give you a significant amount of gold every turn. The Gold Mines can give you a strong economic advantage, but they are usually located in the exposed areas of the map.
Wood: Works like it always has. Sawmills give +2 Wood a day and the high-yield Lumber Mills +4 Wood a day.
Ore: Works like it always has. Ore Pits give +2 Ore a day and the high-yield Ore Quarry +4 Ore a day.
Sulfur: Sulfur Sands gives +1 Sulfur a day and the high-yield Sulfur Dune +2 Sulfur a day.
Mercury: Alchemist's Study gives +1 Mercury a day and the high-yield Alchemist's Lab +2 Mercury a day.
Crystal: On most maps there is only one source of Crystal, and it is usually located in the very center of the map. Crystals are extracted from the Crystal Vault which also works like a Fort, allowing you to defend it more efficently. Unlike other resources, Crystals generate at the start of each week ensuring that players really get time to fight for this valuable resource.
Crystals can be used in two ways. They can be sold for a high amount of Common or Rare resources, or be used as an alternate resource when constructing buildings. Constructing a building with a Crystal is cheaper than doing it with normal resources.
Here is a quick map I made intended to display how a map with this resource system could look like. The black lines are barriers/mountains. The Crystals are isolated in the center, sometimes protected by guardians (could be creeps or border guards) in every passage. High yield resources are located in the areas between the starting towns of every faction. I think it would make a pretty fun multiplayer map.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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somi
Known Hero
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posted January 06, 2012 11:30 PM |
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sorry, but how anyone can dislike the new resource system is beyond me.
That's your problem, don't you think? My problem is that instead of improving something that has some flaws but is generally working fine, they decide to scrap it completely. And this "now everybody is fighting over the same resources" is pure nonsense - the necessity to fight for resources different from gold expires roughly at the same time when it expired in the previous Heroes games. Get the top tier creature upgraded and forget about 80% of the economy management. Some fighting... Maybe the next Heroes should have only gold as a resource?
+1
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 06, 2012 11:31 PM |
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I think it would make a pretty fun multiplayer map.
Yes, but again this ressource system is completely streamlined towards one and only one way of playing. If you imagine a huge epic map where the enemy encounter is not going to be skirmish like as in such a map, such a ressource system will make no sense.
____________
What will happen now?
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 06, 2012 11:37 PM |
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Quote:
Here is my suggestion on a new resource system.
Although I have no problem with the current resource system, this proposel seems intriguing
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 06, 2012 11:41 PM |
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Yes, but again this ressource system is completely streamlined towards one and only one way of playing.
Is it? There are more possibilities out there if you play around with it a bit.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Kivo
Famous Hero
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posted January 06, 2012 11:42 PM |
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Hopefully there will be a time when Might & Magic Heroes 6 will shine just like HoMM3. We just have to wait and see. Now I don't waste time and play this version of the game as I hope it will change into better, maybe there will be a time when i will play a Hot-seat with my friends for the whole day... only time will tell.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 06, 2012 11:53 PM |
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Yes, but again this ressource system is completely streamlined towards one and only one way of playing.
Is it? There are more possibilities out there if you play around with it a bit.
Arguably there is, but I'm not a fan of those super-duper-rare-and-special whatever, be that ressources, creatures (think WoG level 8 creatures) or artifacts (Grail for instance). Problem with those is that if they are extremely rare, you have to either:
a) Make game managable without them, as you will be frequently be unable to get them, which will make them pointless; or
b) Make them super-powerful to make it worth getting them, which makes them imbalanced (just look at the Grail, which has always killed the game, whenever it comes into play).
Either solution is bad if you ask me.
Problem with such an approach as Xerox outline is that if you want to make a map where there is in fact *not* a common zone which is accessed by both/all players, or is only accessed very late, you'll have to either:
a) Give all players separate access to this ressource - which kills the point; or
b) Give no player access to this ressource - which also makes it pointless, because then it effectively never comes into play.
I'm not adverse to different kinds of ressources - I do think that WoG Mithrill which could be used to various on-map purposes was pretty interesting. But I think one needs to consider the implementation very carefully and not just have the competitive element in view - because some game styles are not competitive at all.
Personally, I'd love to see the ressource somehow tuned up with the reputation thing, so that there were two rare ressources: Dragon Blood Crystals and Dragon Tear Gems, and having these related to Tear and Blood path, respectively. This could work like having feedback between reputation and ressource production, use ressources to buy skills of appropriate class, and even if we get dual upgrade (defensive = tear, structure costs Gems; offensive = blood, structure costs Crystal). I think that really could have some interesting aspects and in the same time be very much in tune with the steps they've taken with this game.
____________
What will happen now?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 07, 2012 12:01 AM |
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In original WoG mithril is generated often via special mines, visiting windmills and mystical gardens. But if you remove those scripts, then you can have it rare. For example in the map I work on, it is generated by 2 mines only, and from selling relics to the mithril market. As Utopias respawn every 14 days, you can get constantly some relics.
Purpose:
80 mithril cost= convert a town to your faction, price doubles with each converted town
30-200 mithril: increase your creature stats (for example life costs 30 for 10 points, speed costs 200 for one point)
So it becomes a rare resource where you have to set your priorities. Can save it for more towns or spend it fast to get better creatures. The kind of resource you have to watch constantly for.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted January 07, 2012 03:09 AM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 03:22, 07 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
Some of Heroes VI's fans are a totally disapointment.They just don't understand that these rewiews can do a lot of damage to the game,because Ubihole will look and see how badly apreciated the game is.There are some fans that give the game 0-4/10.These people cannot be named fans.These are trolls like Elvin used to say.So these rewiews cannot be trusted.This game has potential and deserves well an 8/10.
I disagree with you on this one
Those can be proper fans(and in no way they can be called trolls) who are giving 1/10,
because they look from a perspective of HoMM series
HoMM is a "brand name" , and buying a brand you expect some quality and standart
lets compare it to lets say BMW
its not the best and most popular car in the world BUT it is fast, agressive, with notable design, reliable and bla bla,..
so you expect all those things
but when instead you get something totally different + which is not working properly, the speed is lower, engine is breaking and so on..
of course you will be pissed off
name this car something else , like Renault, so it isnt that bad, it is still a good car, but it is NOT BMW!
thats the point!!!!
also stating that its still TBS and core is the same is equal to sayin that its still a car with four wheels and it still can drive!
and regarding "potential"
if this car has 280km on speedometer, but in real can only make 160km/h..
then its just too naive to believe it can reach the speed limit if you take it to car repair shop.
you will have to throw out all the details and replace with new ones, leaving only the "shell", and all that still wont give you 100% guarantee
i personally love Heroes 4,
but i do understand why people dislike it, as they compare it to HoMM3
and i wouldnt call them trolls (as long as they explain their point of view, rather then just going like H4 is crap, cuz its crap)
the same way Fans should have the right to dislike Heroes6, even if its 1/10, its their opinion, and its honest!
yes maybe Ubisoft wouldnt fill their pockets now because of that,
but if Heroes7 will ever be developed, it wouldnt repeat this disastrous mistakes that H6 has!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted January 07, 2012 10:04 AM |
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@DarkLord
From my experience peopel that give 1/10 are thoese, that use arguments like "Only 5 factions! HOW DARE you NOT include MY Black dragons. NO ELVES, this game is a bullsnow...." So yes these are from a large part Trolls
On the topic of resources
The new resource system is in my eyes the best of the controversial changes in the game.
You may ask me why? Well In the games I have played I have had a needof atleast one resource most of the time. 50% the time this was the Crystal, but sometimes even ore or wood. The problem of H6 economy is not in the designe, this one works fairly good. With Crystals beeing needed for all except basic core dwellings its low quantity makes me think about my priorities. If I wamt to upgrade a core or build a n elite dwelling. This is also influenced by the fact, that the upgrded dwelling also increas the unite production, so there is no more "Build now, upgrade later" politic like in former games.
The True problem of the H6 Economy is a matter of Mapdesigne and how common of gold.
Many maps, tend to have a extreemly large number of towns. Example the tree of planyty map has the extreem number of 12 towns on 4 players, thats 3 towns per palyer. Resulting in 3 major problems
-> There are to many unites in the games, this makes easy to out number your enemy and make the game boring
-> The market prices are lowerd extremly fast so things like mines and tresures start to omnisient.
-> 3 towns fully builded provide the player with the dayly income of 9500 gold. This is an extremly high number witch combined with the low market prices destroys the rarenes of resources.
So the basic problems of H6 economy are
1: Too Low market prices combined with to many ways to lower them
2: Poorly designed and balanced maps (Gold mine becoming a common mine on many maps, and the overuse of buildings like the hall of raiders)
3: Gold beeing porly balanced in value and rarenes.
I would realy love to se a change in the raryty of gold. The first step has been made, by changing the gold mine income from 1000 to 500 gold. The sad part is, that playrs now seem to take it as a common mine, and not as rare as it suppose to be.
The combinaton of more gold mines, Forts and marketplaces may not look so important, but it is has high ifluence on the game economy. In my opinion an easy step to restore the balance woudl be to reduce the Capitol bonuse from 4000gold to 3000 gold.
Some people could say, that there may be more gold, but also the building are more expensive. Yes that is true, but also, there are not as many building as there used to be. And if someone could compare the amount of gold that was needed tu buy a one week town production in H5 and H3, and compare it to the gold needed in H6, I do not belive you would find such a big difference.
You may have the opinion, that it is stupid not have the resources to recruit all the production of a town, but resource shortage is in my opinion a very important part of strategy. If I have low gold income, I have to carefully chose whith unit to recruit, If I sould hire or build more buildings to produce unites and have the option to recruit more of them later. This is strategy in my eyes. And sinc you do not have to worry about someoe stealing your town on day 7 and recruit all saved unites, thanks to the new creature pool, I do not see any reason why nesceseraly need to have such large gold and unite incomes.
The problem of H6 game economy is not in the rarenes of crystals, but in the commonnes of Gold. And this is actualy one of the main reasons I prefer H2 to any other heroes game.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 07, 2012 10:24 AM |
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I agree about markets. The price goes down too fast (and starts too good) to make resources matter. A nerf on marketplace trade would do well to help it.
I think the main issue about the new resource model is not the model itself, but rather the fact that valuable time was spent on making a new model where it wasn't really needed, while other parts of the game could use that time. If every other part of the game was working fine i doubt many would be bothered by resources.
I'm only hoping they keep their word and keep working on the game. I would actually like to see continued support (in a way that there is no set amount of expansions after which sequel is mandatory).
____________
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 07, 2012 10:29 AM |
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The real problem is that the resource requirement is directly linked to the balancing inside each faction and between the factions so you end up with one of these two:
- overpriced buildings compared to the overall resource income, especially for the top tier creatures which puts the emphasis on the lower tiers - a problem since day 1;
- normal prices for the buildings in which case you need to build and upgrade most of your creature dwellings and then manage only your gold income and to a much lesser extent - your crystal income - which is allegedly the same problem that the previous system had.
In any case, the map-maker has the final say, so if he/she decides to make a rich map with many resources, you have situation 2 but if he decides to make it poor - you have situation 1. If he decides to make it "balanced", you again have situation 2 but with a delay. In the end - what the hell is the purpose of the whole exercise anyway? It would have been much better to give the "unused" resources a purpose than to scrap them and introduce a situation which either has the same flaws or different flaws but ultimately adds nothing to the game.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2012 11:24 AM |
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You shouldn't underestimate the inability of complainers to adapt to a new system.
In previous HoMM games, no matter the game difficulty you'd strive to build each turn and get all 7 creature dwellings built as soon as possible. Also you couldn't always build what you want, but had to follow a certain routine.
That meant you'd have to minimize your forces to have enough money for the buildings which you could build due to the fact that different buildings would need different resources.
In a game against the AI on high difficulty the problem was to hold against superior AI forces until your economy was working and you could start to hire more offensively.
In MP game you would aim to get the timing of contact right, so that you'd be able to hire out justz before the moment of contact.
This is different now. You simply have to plan your dwellings - it's not the KIND of special resources you have that more or less dictates your building. Instead you must DECIDE whether you build EITHER this OR that: Upgrade or new dwelling, Town Portal or Dwelling, and so on.
BECAUSE of that - and since you simply cannot build every day, starting in week 2, you have more freedom with money - supported by the fact that you can tweak your money income with the Market.
Here is the first thing to consider: you do not need to build the higher income dwellings: both Market AND Town Hall cost 2000 2/2, while City Hall cost 5000 5/5. Grading up to City Hall is no automatic move. You can much more fine-tune economy - and should you be able to hire out and STILL have too much money, you simply may have wasted resources for money buildings.
In this regard the game plays different, and I have to say I LIKE THAT, because it's a change. Earlier, going for Capitol was a matter of course, because there was just no other option to get the money necessary for hiring and building levels 6 and 7. Now, since resources take more time to gather, it's not.
And IF you indeed earn too much money, you can waste it away exchanging it on the market.
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