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Dark-Whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted January 05, 2012 03:19 PM |
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I'm for both. Creature pool, teleports in every town, area of control and resource reduction are awesome changes in my book.
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somi
Known Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 03:33 PM |
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Well i'm not for changes, especially not for making the game more simpler.
If they wont to change the game, then they should make a new game, that doesn't have to do anything with heroes.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 03:48 PM |
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I don't get it. H5 has kept everything H3 had and improved all of them to a much better standart. H3 had a messed up skill tree, very seldom creature abilities, no feel of uniqueness between factions and everything, all became perfect with H5. And Racials got added, alternative upgrades added, etc., which were all awesome changes everyone loved.
The only difference was it became 3D. And just for that people curse the whole game, ignoring every other thing. That's why I said the love of H3 blinded people's eyes. Cause every little gameplay aspect in H3 is in H5 but in a much better and improved state. Noone can deny that.
And cartoonish units? Which ones are that seriously? And how is H3 not cartoonish? It's sure it is way more so. Look at that Griffins, Zealots, Trolls, Green Dragon, Manticore, Lich. All of them are much much more cartoonish than their H5 creations.
Quote:
Well i'm not for changes, especially not for making the game more simpler.
If they wont to change the game, then they should make a new game, that doesn't have to do anything with heroes.
You wouldn't get bored? I sure would. And I have never seen a game that didn't have changes in its sequel. Only Starcraft 2, which people criticed for that specific thing; that it's the same game.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 05, 2012 03:57 PM |
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Quote:
I don't get it. H5 has kept everything H3 had and improved all of them to a much better standart.
soundtrack, likeable characters, plot and subtlety notwithstanding.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 04:03 PM |
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And gameplay, skill tree, spells, unit abilities, faction differences are all better in H5.
I loved Agrael btw.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 05, 2012 04:21 PM |
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From a gameplay perspective i find H5 wastly superior (not perfect though, i think something in between would be the best as it would speed up things and wouldn't require external tool - skillwheel).
From story/script/characters/charm sides H3 wins.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 05, 2012 05:15 PM |
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Quote:
The only difference was it became 3D. And just for that people curse the whole game, ignoring every other thing. That's why I said the love of H3 blinded people's eyes. Cause every little gameplay aspect in H3 is in H5 but in a much better and improved state. Noone can deny that.
Coming from a person who admitted several months ago that he has never played Heroes III until... several months ago (probably for a week or two at most), you shouldn't be surprised that your points can't be taken seriously. If you are calling us Heroes III fanboys indirectly, you are definitely a Heroes V fanboy by the same standards.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 06:19 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
The only difference was it became 3D. And just for that people curse the whole game, ignoring every other thing. That's why I said the love of H3 blinded people's eyes. Cause every little gameplay aspect in H3 is in H5 but in a much better and improved state. Noone can deny that.
Coming from a person who admitted several months ago that he has never played Heroes III until... several months ago (probably for a week or two at most), you shouldn't be surprised that your points can't be taken seriously. If you are calling us Heroes III fanboys indirectly, you are definitely a Heroes V fanboy by the same standards.
It was 1 year ago when I first joined here and played it for long since then. But got bored quick after playing practically the same factions again and again. And how does it matter when you played it? It is the same game. Look at that, just because he wants to ignore my points himself, he says they are not taken seriously by people and even imagines I'm "surprised" and all  They are taken serious all right, don't you worry for me.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted January 05, 2012 06:57 PM |
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Quote:
I loved Agrael btw.
Well, that does it. We can no longer be friends, Nocturnal.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 05, 2012 07:31 PM |
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Keep it civil boys, there's nothing wrong in disagreeing, and just leave it at that.
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What will happen now?
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 07:36 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I loved Agrael btw.
Well, that does it. We can no longer be friends, Nocturnal.
Why?  What was wrong with him? I can understand all the other chars but Agrael was cool. I also liked Raelag but I won't tell you that 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted January 05, 2012 07:41 PM |
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I think it may have something to do with him being a pedophile or something?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 09:00 PM |
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I think, that someone who DID play HoMM 3 only a year ago will have a lot more OBJECTIVE opinion than someone who "grew up with the game".
And I agree: HoMM 5 TotE beats H3 in every RELEVANT aspect EXCEPT map editor (and therefore replayability over a long time).
On the other hand HoMM 3 is basically unplayable in MP without a plethora of additional "rules" or playing "specific" maps (in other words, you cannopt simply pick ANY map and then ANY faction and ANY starting hero on ANY difficulty level).
However, HoMM 5 is a very mixed experience in MP as well - I think, it sucks.
Even NOW, HoMM 6 clearly beats EVERY other HoMM game in MP - except that the game is limited to a dozen maps here at this point.
So ACTUALLY - for me - we have something of a deadlock between H2-H5: Depending on what you really like and is most important for you, one of those will be IN FRONT ( which means, that you will actually play that version). Or, since this is about WORST you will NOT play the game that you evaluate worst in certain areas.
But it's clear that POTENTIALLY HoMM 6 has every chance to beat all others in every respect, depending on what will happen in the future, exceept for those who already have given up due to "having only 4 resources".
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somi
Known Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 09:15 PM |
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Quote:
I don't get it. H5 has kept everything H3 had and improved all of them to a much better standart. H3 had a messed up skill tree, very seldom creature abilities, no feel of uniqueness between factions and everything, all became perfect with H5. And Racials got added, alternative upgrades added, etc., which were all awesome changes everyone loved.
Quote:
The only difference was it became 3D. And just for that people curse the whole game, ignoring every other thing. That's why I said the love of H3 blinded people's eyes. Cause every little gameplay aspect in H3 is in H5 but in a much better and improved state. Noone can deny that.
Hey, I love heroes 5, second best after heroes 3 WOG. They did not remove anything that was in previous games. And i said it already that i love the direction they where going in heroes 5 (I dont like heores 6 direction). But not all is perfect and better then heroes 3. 3 biggest problems for me was bad ai ( and long time to wait), need to rotate the camera every few seconds to see every resource on map or to move underground. And art style that is cartoon.
I didn't play campaign that much, but heroes 3 had much better story, and characters, and better music.
Quote:
And cartoonish units? Which ones are that seriously? And how is H3 not cartoonish? It's sure it is way more so. Look at that Griffins, Zealots, Trolls, Green Dragon, Manticore, Lich. All of them are much much more cartoonish than their H5 creations.
Nop, they are not cartoony, but if you cant see that, I cant argue with you then. Heroes 5 looks like warcraft, look on peasant, zombie, gargoyl, skeletons, and almost all units, you will see the direction they choose for units. Fat, with lot of different contrast colors. Cartoony units had heroes 2, heroes 3 didnt had them.
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Pitsu
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 09:30 PM |
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Quote:
And I agree: HoMM 5 TotE beats H3 in every RELEVANT aspect EXCEPT map editor (and therefore replayability over a long time).
Presentation of strategically relevant data on screen has much worse signal to noise ratio in H5. That goes in addition to the editor.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 10:23 PM |
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Fat, with lot of different contrast colors. Cartoony units had heroes 2, heroes 3 didnt had them.
Oh, I meant by "cartoony" you meant they are funny and childish. Sorry then.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 05, 2012 10:42 PM |
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I think both of you are right in your own way. You cannot play H3 today and understand why it is a great game, particularly not if you have tried to play Heroes 5, with all the faction variation, skill system etc. that comes with that game. It simply does not come across as a great game compared to todays standard if this is your first meeting with the game. In that sense I agree, someone who only recently established familiarity with the game cannot truely judge it.
Heroes 3 was a superb game for its time, and I have had countless hours of fun with the game. The replayability was almost endless, it had lots of atmosphere, and there were some truely remarkable maps made for the game by fans (Lord Of War <3).
That being said, I still think Heroes 5 gameplay wise was a better game, if you look at the content. Units were more diverse in abilities, faction unique skills added to this, and the skill and spell system was far superior. But does that count for a lot when the game was virtually unplayable on any map larger than medium size due to technical problems? I'm not sure. I didn't spend more than a tiny fraction of the time I used on H3 on H5, and while I think it had potential to be superb - and to be the best Heroes game - it never really fulfilled its potential.
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What will happen now?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 05, 2012 11:11 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 23:16, 05 Jan 2012.
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Heroes V admittedly improved a lot of things over Heroes III but just by saying that you are not yet proving that it's a better game overall. For me, the greatest failures of Heroes V were this idiotic + up to 2.5 additional Initiative at the beginning of the battle which could ruin good several hours of playing just like that, the totally unbalanced Luck, the return to the one-hero-per-faction model and the major reduction of each faction's flexibility via the fixed very high or very low likelihood for hero X to receive skill Y (yes, I know that you can build a Demon Lord with Light Magic but no, you won't be able to do it in 95% of the games). Oh, yeah, and Sylvan - a faction which was overpowered from the very beginning and was made even more overpowered later - but let's say that this is just a personal thought. So apart from the infantile graphics, the stolen creature design and the worst campaign in any strategy game I've played, Heroes V is not perfect gamplay-wise as well. Claiming that it is is no more objective than claiming that Heroes III is perfect.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 05, 2012 11:25 PM |
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That's what I say: 5 and 3 BOTH massively suck in MP.
6 is NOW better in MP, and by a big margin.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 05, 2012 11:52 PM |
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Heroes VI will be better when Necropolis and Inferno are properly balanced and the Blood/Tear classes become somewhat equally powerful. Right now it just has the potential to be better than the rest and you don't know how tired I am of potentials that never evolve into reality. When the first real balancing patch comes out, we'll see if there's any hope for this particular potential.
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