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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 15, 2023 10:38 PM |
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Look guys, Russia is NOT a dictatorship, is certainly more autocratic than our vegetables democracies but this constant "you die if you criticize" is just another gross lie.
You cannot keep a dictatorship running when a) your borders are fully open, b) your people have access to every foreign media and social platforms, c) your economy is fully liberal, which means constant exchanges worldwide. It can not work.
And if you look closely at all those stories about this or that guy thrown in prison for "saying a bad word about regime", you see that what is reported is greatly watered down and relevant details are consciously omitted.
Like the recent story about a father going to prison because his 10 yo daughter draw a design. Then when you take some time to search by yourself and browse multiple sources, you find that he was assigned to residence for defamation of Russian army on Facebook (he wrote they are all rapists), which is basically a criminal offense in EU as well. We had one women being arrested in France last week just for writing "Macron is an Heroes Community moderator" on Facebook.
You know where you die if you criticize? That's France, right. A whole newspaper team (12 journalists from Charlie Hebdo) slaughtered by Kalashnikov armed Islamists, priests and teachers decapitated in the middle of the street, dozens of writers under heavy police protection as they receive daily death threats. Peanuts.
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Era II mods and utilities
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NotBlizzardboy
Hired Hero
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posted April 16, 2023 12:05 AM |
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You can really be arrested for calling the president an a-hole? Are you sure there wasn't more to it than that? That sounds scary.
@JJ:
It is probably because the actual number of people in Crimea who want to be part of Russia is lower than what their own polling showed, even if it may still be above 50%. Also, I'm not so sure the UN would support a Crimean annexation even if they had gone to the UN and even if there was a favorable polling. I doubt accurate data on that question is possible at this point because people's responses are going to be influenced by fear, and that would be the case whether Crimea is controlled by Ukraine or by Russia.
Probably at least part of the reason this mess started is because NATO was floating the idea of Ukraine joining them, but they hadn't made any decisive move on it, which is the worst thing you could do. Either Ukraine should have stayed out of NATO and remained a buffer zone, or if they did join NATO, they should have completed the process as quickly as possible. Floating the idea around without acting on it was provocative and made Russia want to act. Not that I'm saying Russia was justified but I can understand why that would goad them into wanting to replace Zelensky and install a puppet state, because if Ukraine did join NATO at some point, the window of opportunity to do something would be over.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 16, 2023 12:38 AM |
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NotBlizzardboy said:
You can really be arrested for calling the president an a-hole? Are you sure there wasn't more to it than that? That sounds scary.
LINK
Defamation is an offense in EU. Only in US you have total freedom.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 16, 2023 09:17 AM |
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NotBlizzardboy said:
@JJ:
Probably at least part of the reason this mess started is because NATO was floating the idea of Ukraine joining them, but they hadn't made any decisive move on it, which is the worst thing you could do. Either Ukraine should have stayed out of NATO and remained a buffer zone, or if they did join NATO, they should have completed the process as quickly as possible. Floating the idea around without acting on it was provocative and made Russia want to act. Not that I'm saying Russia was justified but I can understand why that would goad them into wanting to replace Zelensky and install a puppet state, because if Ukraine did join NATO at some point, the window of opportunity to do something would be over.
Except that's not possible. To be exact, since 2014 it's not possible, because since Russia's annexation of Crimea Ukraine is part of a conflict, and countries with ongoing conflicts cannot become NATO members. So since 2014 there wasn't any danger of Ukraine becoming a NATO member. Russia was pretty much in control of the situation.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 16, 2023 04:34 PM |
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Salamandre said:
We had one women being arrested in France last week just for writing "Macron is an ass*ole" on Facebook.
You really want to get penalized for bypassing the language filter???
You have until tonight to edit your post and this is the last time I give a warning for that. And that goes for anyone else.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 16, 2023 05:23 PM |
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 16, 2023 05:35 PM |
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Lol.
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NotBlizzardboy
Hired Hero
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posted April 16, 2023 08:16 PM |
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@JJ
Sure it is. Rules are made to be, you know.
Besides, it just involves getting into semantical arguments over what qualifies as a "conflict" or not. I don't think it would have ever happened since entry needs everybody's approval, but it would still get Russia's attention, which it did. Georgia also increasingly wants in the alliance, and they have actively disputed territory with Russia as well. That won't necessarily stop them from joining.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 16, 2023 11:15 PM |
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It will. Stop arguing for arguing's sake. It's a dead end.
NATO has statutes. And for good reason. EXACTLY for that thing doesn't happen.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 17, 2023 10:24 PM |
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Salamandre said:
You cannot keep a dictatorship running when a) your borders are fully open, b) your people have access to every foreign media and social platforms, c) your economy is fully liberal, which means constant exchanges worldwide. It can not work.
And if you look closely at all those stories about this or that guy thrown in prison for "saying a bad word about regime", you see that what is reported is greatly watered down and relevant details are consciously omitted.
Like the recent story about a father going to prison because his 10 yo daughter draw a design. Then when you take some time to search by yourself and browse multiple sources, you find that he was assigned to residence for defamation of Russian army on Facebook (he wrote they are all rapists), which is basically a criminal offense in EU as well. We had one women being arrested in France last week just for writing "Macron is an Heroes Community moderator" on Facebook.
You know where you die if you criticize? That's France, right. A whole newspaper team (12 journalists from Charlie Hebdo) slaughtered by Kalashnikov armed Islamists, priests and teachers decapitated in the middle of the street, dozens of writers under heavy police protection as they receive daily death threats. Peanuts.
Well, all a, b and c is true for Turkey as well but I feel more hesitant not to call it a dictatorship each passing year. People do go to jail for standing in Erdogan's way if they matter enough and they are on his radar. You can reach foreign press and social media in the age of internet of course, but what does it change? Most people follow local press and most local press is pro-Erdogan, because with the "liberal" economy, he can use state power to make pro-Erdogan business people richer, they get the juicy state contracts, then they buy the media that is big enough to distort public opinion.
And a terrorist attack cant be compared to using state power to oppress or manipulate people. Dont get me wrong, I dont imagine life in Russia is just as same as times of Stalin, there are more subtle ways to apply authoritarian force now, not firing squads. And yes, the West is no safe haven either in this regard. (Julian Assange is enough to see what happens when your journalism actually hits its mark.) But compared to Russia or Turkey, the level of individual freedoms still looks much better from where I stand.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 18, 2023 03:06 AM |
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If I remember well, Erdogan was on the right path then the putsch from 2016 kinda relived old demons, is that accurate?
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 18, 2023 08:06 AM |
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Artu, I heard Erdogan has a big chance of losing the next election. How accurate is this rumor?
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 18, 2023 10:42 AM |
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Erdogan was, at least in rhetoric, for freedom when he first came to power, he worked together with Kurds, liberals, leftists and so on against the Kemalist bureaucracy, which was, back then, seen as "the establishment" and status quo. It is still a debate if these alliences were Machiavelian moves until he got ahold of critical positions of power completely or if he got authoritarian over time, but the religious cult he was in bed with which infiltrated people all over judiciary system and military tried a coup in 2016. (Backed by U.S., at least to some degree.) They failed. Erdogan this time allied with the ultra-nationalist party and the old conventionalists. And yes, he is much more authoritarian ever since. He probably feels cheated by the West, which doesnt help but his political background is Islamic conservativism, which is not known as the most democratic tradition to begin with, and the country is partly the Middle East with constant war zone neighbours.
Will he lose next month? It's a big if. Everybody is so sure of themselves. He can win, he has a dedicated base who see him as a hero no matter how ruined the economy is. These are hardcore loyalists and they are around 25-30 percent. There are also a lot of people who are so fed up, theywill vote anyone who has a chance against him, so we'll see. Will he go quietly if he loses, that's a big if, too. But enough is enough, it's been over 20 years of AKP rule, the secular half of the country feels like it's a chokehold at this point.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 18, 2023 06:05 PM |
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@all
You can't like or/and love Russia.. If you are disagree with us..
Yes in MIBC sells 2 room costs in about €105.000.. Your investment with love.. And then you keep silence.. We are hoping your the future is brilliance..
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 18, 2023 07:24 PM |
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Ghost said:
@all
You can't like or/and love Russia..
Okay, but I won't like or love Ukraine either. Fair?
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 18, 2023 08:05 PM |
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Drakon-Deus said:
Ghost said:
@all
You can't like or/and love Russia..
Okay, but I won't like or love Ukraine either. Fair?
Majority agreed Ukraine, right? An average normal person wins too.. If you want be different person.. Thus you can't see things..
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 19, 2023 08:55 AM |
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Maybe I would have bought the propaganda if it was new, but after George Floyd with BLM and Fauci with Corona, no way in hell that I'll worship zelenski now. 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 19, 2023 07:14 PM |
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 19, 2023 07:15 PM |
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If you jump on the bandwagon every time with the rest doesn't mean you're correct. 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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NotBlizzardboy
Hired Hero
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posted April 20, 2023 04:45 AM |
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@JJ
Even the chief of NATO is saying that he expects Ukraine to join.
I'm not saying it will happen while they're in the middle of pitched battle with Putinstan but it will still likely happen. Crimea isn't a hot zone unless they're actually fighting.
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