|
|
bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
|
posted October 11, 2002 04:48 AM |
|
|
Well as the first post of the new thread, I will go ahead and start off by giving you all some comments I have on maps:
Magic forest...my hat is always off to JB for his talent in maps, but I would like to say that it is a serious rush map.
I am not that worried about it as it is not one of my favorites, but other gamers may be.
Unknown lands....The map is one of the funnest I have played, but it takes a long time to load, and sometimes with a 56k impossible. Being patient (for a change) i waited with a 56ker for 25 minutes for the loadiong game status, then another 20 minutes for the script to work, it had not worked yet and I couldn't wait anymore. Too much for me. Anyways Doc is looking into the possibilities with some of the beggining script to quicken the set-up time. It may be the question of startign towns, i dont know, but I do love the map without question.
Chameleon...great map fun time with the portals hehe. No question this is one of the maps that I will play often.
Dark son...pretty good map, but i think a objective isn't quite right for ToH? The objective for those who dont know is to knock out a computer emporer/emporess. And killing your opponent doesn't win the game.
which brings up the next question do we accept ANY maps that have a objective other than annialation?
emp game...same thing
clash of the titans...too much for ground cover, i think.
(my dictionary need some glue and tape still  
____________
god please spare me from my contribulations
|
|
Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
|
posted October 11, 2002 10:39 PM |
|
|
Hi Bob,
I'm glad you had a chance to look at my map, "Dark Son." I need to explain the victory conditions, though. I think the scenario will work for ToH.
There are two quest huts that explain the victory conditions for 100 gold (cheap), and you can go back and get the victory conditions explained repeatedly (for a 100 gold charge) if you forget.
There are three ways to win Dark Son:
1. Defeat the "Dark Son," Marcus Tigranis, and then report back to the king on his island retreat, and you win. This is the quick victory. But it can be prevented if the king is dead. Everyone gets an announcement when M.T. has been captured, so players who did not capture M.T. _must_ kill the king and prevent the quick win.
2. Capture M.T. and don't report to the king ... kill your opponents (standard victory condition applies).
3. Capture M.T., kill the king, _and_ destroy your enemies.
All of these work. The only requirement for victory is that M.T. must be in prison. Once he's captured, the standard victory condition is enabled for all players, but only the one who captured M.T. can get the quick win by reporting back to the king, if he's still alive.
Make sense? Please feel free to e-mail me privately if you'd like to discuss the map further.
-Laelth
apt6083@exchange.uta.edu
____________
Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
|
|
bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
|
|
posted October 11, 2002 10:54 PM |
|
|
thanks for the complete info.
A side note I played unknown lands twice yesterday, both times with soemone who had dsl or cable also, and had the same screen resolution. it took 7 mins. to set up both times, and we had 25-35 sec transfer times this was very encouraging.
____________
god please spare me from my contribulations
|
|
bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
|
|
posted October 19, 2002 03:14 AM |
|
|
well as noone has much to say lately ... lol. I will go ahead and once again bore all of you people.
Dark son may be accepted by toh in the near future. We are not getting anywhere asking others opinions about maps, unless we are playing them. So I, I know for a fact Doc and Alkis are all going to play a game and test it out...No promises on this, but I have to say it is a great looking map.
Jaws... I am playing right now...Jex, i gave this a bad reveiw and I AM SORRY! this is a cool map there is more things to do than you can imagine, i thouhgt ahh too much, but ... it is a large 2 player map(we don't have many of them) and it is quite fun to play. There is absolutly noone who likes rush maps that are going to play this one. But all of the people in toh that play and like long term games with multiple stratagys and involvement, or if they like a new map...going blind per se. this is it. The other members are looking at this as well, and I am recommending that we keep it.
unknown lands...once again a reminder to all give this one time to work out the beginning scripts and randomness, and it will play fine after day one.
____________
god please spare me from my contribulations
|
|
Sir_Alkis
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 19, 2002 05:19 PM |
|
|
Jaws map
I am sorry Bob but I also don't like Jaws map. It has too many oracles. How many are there? Five? Or more? It's obvious that you like the map because you like adventure but some players will look at the editor first and they will know where the artifacts are. Although it will be hard to memorize all those oracles (and quests)
In my humble opinion a good map should not require to spend hours memorizing things that are map-specific. In other words a player who knows this map well will have a great advantage over someone who doesn't know it. He can go to the exact location of the grail or whatever the oracles give, without having to visit them. He can play the map again and again to find the best routes there etc.
A good map to play against your friends but not for tournaments imho. It will take quite some time to finish too, so I should have said patient friends
____________
|
|
bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
|
|
posted October 19, 2002 06:58 PM |
|
|
Quote:
In my humble opinion a good map should not require to spend hours memorizing things that are map-specific. In other words a player who knows this map well will have a great advantage over someone who doesn't know it. He can go to the exact location of the grail or whatever the oracles give, without having to visit them. He can play the map again and again to find the best routes there etc.
quote]
(as you know you opinion is always respected by me, and i love the discussions we have had about maps. Please don't take this the wrong way, it is a learning experiance for all of us, and my hope is everyone may gain some experiance from these kind of posts)
the map science people use happens on every single map. If i have played a map say 4 or 5 times the person who is going in blind, is in trouble. It is the way homm3 was too, and unless we have alot of people with the time to make maps with all kinds of random scripting, like unknown lands, this is going to happen to the extreme, we don't have a choice. IMHO i don't thing there is any way to avoid map science.
as far as oracles, I said the very same thing, and it made map makers in a uproar...lol. now actually the blue oracle i looked at the map, sent a sprite and looked for 3 weeks, couldnt find it. The thing on oracles is this....there is a random radius possible, this changes every single time you make a game.
one other thing really fast. We dont have very many lg maps this could be a good addition to the lg map collection. Not alot of people play larger than med map, but some do.
I am very very glad that we think and learn along the exact same lines , these things are exactly what i said lol, then i played it.
[edit for jinxer before he reads it lol]
before I played it with someone else.
and this also comes highly recomended by ZUD.
____________
god please spare me from my contribulations
|
|
Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
|
|
posted October 20, 2002 02:38 AM |
|
|
|
Sir_Alkis
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 20, 2002 08:28 AM |
|
|
Thanks for reminding me about the artifact radius. I forgot about it completely.
Ok then, approved.
____________
|
|
Joel
Adventuring Hero
An Underdog (Version 2.0)
|
|
posted October 20, 2002 09:51 AM |
|
|
Map Bugs
I'd ask Jex for his updated version of Jaws before you post it. He fixed some of the quest bugs and the typos.
Ummm, and did anyone fix Boring's Mountain? Red doesn't have a crystal mine while blue does. (They both have all the rest so it must be an oversight that red doesn't)
And did Doc fix 4 Lakes so that both player's start with the linked castles?
Dum de dum, just making your jobs harder.
____________
The Myrmidons and Underdogs
|
|
Sir_Alkis
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 20, 2002 01:35 PM |
|
|
Map bugs
Thanks for your comments Joel. I edited all versions of 4 lakes and sent them to my superior They will be on the page soon.
You are right about Boring's mountain we will fix that too.
If you have any more comments on maps you are very welcome.
____________
|
|
insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
|
|
posted October 20, 2002 04:28 PM |
|
|
Boring's Mountain
the existence of this map is a bug itself..
.. could be saved alot of online hommers time and game appetite if some maps were mysteriously vaporise
____________
|
|
bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
|
|
posted October 20, 2002 06:18 PM |
|
|
|
thanks insatiable, we have alkis working very hard on this map right now, just a little FYI
|
|
Sir_Alkis
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 21, 2002 01:24 PM |
|
|
Insatiable,
I agree with you. I don't consider Boring's mountain a good map (for my own reasons).
Can you please explain a little your point of view? Maybe we dislike this map for different reasons.
____________
|
|
insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
|
|
posted October 21, 2002 04:13 PM |
|
|
So much space in it and hardly anything really worth while visiting,,looks like a gold mine war,but nothing beyond that,,
,,its an open map though(considering those lev2 guards at bridges a day7 kill),which by itself gives some nerve to a map,,still,nothing beyond that,,
,,i think gameIV brings out its best at more rich maps,trying to boost your heroes with exp,artifs and adventure buildings and the lack of that is obvious by first look at editor,,
,,Still though,peeking at updated version,it looks quite balanced and will satisfy open map fans(Sir_Alkis must have put his hand on it
hey boob,,whats FYI?ehh,,
____________
|
|
Sir_Alkis
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 21, 2002 05:24 PM |
|
|
Insatiable, I agree with you.
These are some of my comments that I sent to fellow members of the map council:
"All the map will probably be ignored and all the play will be in the middle area. This map is only medium in paper. In reality, it's a tiny map. It's a pity because it is well made aesthetically."
"This theme was well known even from the time of Heroes2. You have to get to a certain area first. The fact is, it's impossible to have both players get there at the same time. One of the two will have the advantage which will be as devastating as the importance of the target area."
"In any case if both opponents attack the bridge early, they will meet up there in the mountain and the "final" battle will take place there with first and second level troops Also, random factors like who will be the "lucky" one to meet the bandits, or how strong the creatures guarding his bridge will be, make this map the 3DO version of casino online."
On the other hand, it seems that many players like this map. A matter of taste maybe
At least in my last version #1546 the center artifact is actually guarded by the Dragons and red has the crystall mine he always wanted and all shrines etc are linked with the player's color. I sent this version today but I doubt it's posted yet.
I also removed the piles of gold around the gold mines to step down a little the importance of the center area.
-
____________
|
|
bobntamr1
Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
|
|
posted October 26, 2002 01:56 AM |
|
|
just a big thank you to jb239 for all his efforts =O)
____________
god please spare me from my contribulations
|
|
Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
|
|
posted October 27, 2002 09:18 PM |
|
|
Isn't it time...
that the maps on ToH were rated?
I find it hard to believe that someone actually rated them... it appears that someone just went through and randomly assigned 1 to 3 stars to every map.
On the page for maps, it shows a legend stating that the scale for maps is 1-4, yet all the maps are rated 1-3.. so i guess ToH has no top-notch maps??? lol
Also, although I know this is a matter of map council members' opinions, I seriously question some of the ratings. For example, Unknown Lands gets 3 stars (which apparently is as high as you can get), yet it is unplayable for multiplayer. Does this make sense? The map is not bad... but takes so long to load that it's impractical.
Another example - Round the World. This is simply one of the best 1v1 maps that is out there and I'm sure many would back me up there. Yet 2 stars. Certainly that deserves 3 at least??? I know it's a matter of opinion, but come on... that's a great map, you must be able to see.
Are the maps rated by how much they are played and not by how good they are???
It just seems to me like the Map Council is really slacking off (besides tamr, who does seem to be doing his job).
|
|
vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
|
|
posted October 28, 2002 01:10 AM |
|
|
its too early
to have 4 star maps rated. Some may be 4 star worthy right now, but there hasnt been enough time in activity to do it yet.
And about ratings, I alone have been rating them, through feedback or activity/use. Someone wants to help out in rating them, well then get to work boy
____________
|
|
Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
|
|
posted October 28, 2002 01:17 AM |
|
|
Re: Round the World
"Round the World," while fun to play and well-balanced, perhaps, is completely artificial-looking. It's terrible aesthetically, imho, and I think 2 stars is an appropriate rating for a fun, but ugly, map.
(not like my vote really counts, but I felt the need to share)
-Laelth
____________
Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
|
|
Camelnor
Famous Hero
Also known as Blue Camel
|
|
posted October 28, 2002 03:23 AM |
|
|
|
lol, no offence, but if ToH maps were about aesthetics, than a ton of H3 ones would not have been up
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 1 
