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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted April 20, 2007 10:13 PM |
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short question for Inferno insiders
Does the effect of Master of Fire also occur with Consume Corpse/Soulfire? What about the fireball of Deleb's ballista?
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open source for an open mind
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 20, 2007 10:15 PM |
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For Deleb I doubt as I am positive it didn't work for me.  but never played her in 2.1 tho, and I remember from the old 1.3 manual that it didn't work on Deleb.
As for Soulfire, dunno, it's a crappy ability that REALLY needs a serious boost in a patch. So I never took it, that's why can't help you here
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 20, 2007 10:35 PM |
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Seems won't work on soulfire.
About jezebeth, remember alastor? i stated once in early page of this thread that those two maybe good for hellfire because of that mana regeneration perk from their sorcery. Other demon lords must wait to regen his mana normally, but those two can use hellfire almost everyday, even early days, thus making them also the best creepers of inferno, but imo all demon lords are good at creeping, they can match warlock if played right, but the way of creeping of one demon lord is different with another demon lords, ex: jezebeth and alastor use hellfire, all other demon lords except deleb use familiar, demon, also overseer if needed, and hell hound, also cerberi if needed. I agree that succubus mistress is the best creature for hellfire, especially if they're splitted to several stacks, but if you're unlucky, they will drain your mana like crazy while triggering hellfire on wrong target, sometimes it's better not to split them if you feel that "this is my unlucky day"
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted April 21, 2007 12:30 AM |
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Splitting them may be good on some occasions, however my hero was acting as a well for consume corpse. Soulfire is a terrible skill, but it can do alittle dmg here and there.
Keeping the succubus in one stack and focusing fire to a single target was only allowing for minimal mana drain from hellfire and also allowing hero to cast spells, and then consume each corpse as it fell. The consume corpse ability is whats really needed for the hellfire game.
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dschingi
Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
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posted April 21, 2007 01:21 AM |
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Edited by dschingi at 01:22, 21 Apr 2007.
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I just did a quick test and it turned out that master of fire works with Soulfire! It might be uncommon for demon lords to take Sorcery and Destructive, but in a case like Destro's it could be quite useful sometimes. You have to watch out not hitting your own creatures with it, though.
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open source for an open mind
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Sanyu
Known Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 05:05 AM |
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@Chaosdragon
Yea agree with you.
@Dschingi
That's great! This almost makes soulfire a decent skill...
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 10:13 AM |
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Yes, fireball spell that is cast by soulfire is affected by -50% def reduction from MoF. It's usefulness, however, is limited because gated troops doesn't leave any corpses(they are just unsummoned). Still, soulfire+MoF will certainly help against the map because gated troops can lure creeps onto the right spot.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 21, 2007 02:37 PM |
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Yeah, Destro23, you're right, based from my experience, splitting them usually will drain about 20 mana and more if you face tough stacks, that is early week, after week 1 demon lord need 50 mana or more (that's minimum) to creep everyday with hellfire.
But sometimes this splitting tactics gives us minimal loss, ex: there is 25 druid elder or 40-50++ master hunter guarding important passage, and we want to kill them mid of week 2, this is possible with 4-6 succubus mistress splitted to 1 each + full stacks of demon (about 70-90++ is needed for this fight based on your luck in trigerring hellfire), you want to split the demons or not is up to you. By splitting succubus mistress we have very nice boost in trigerring hellfire, 1 succubus mistress has 1x - 4x the chance of other inferno troops (depends on how many stacks of your enemy) each turn, that's why i say this unit is the best in conjunction with hellfire , and splitting them to 4 or 6 as example increase the chance to 16x - 24x of other inferno troops, if there are minimum of 4 stacks (enemy's stacks).
By using only 6 sucubus mistress and full stacks of demons, neutral creeps usually splitted to 2 stacks, sometimes three, rarely four, this makes our 1 stack of 1 sucubus mistress will have 2x chance of triggering hellfire (30% on each of those two stacks), if we bring 6 SM, then we have 12x total chance of hellfire each turn, and that will make total of 50*12 bonus damage (yes, 600 total bonus damage if you're lucky), and you can achieve those damage on week 2 day 2 or 3 if you start with level 2 town and must have at least 1 spellpower and hellfire, depends on how you build your town and how you build your hero, still, even warlock and academy can't beat that without arties and warlock luck.
With those crazy chance, even if you're the most unfortunate person in the world, hellfire will trigger like crazy (minimum of about 200 bonus damage each turn), and those 50 master hunter or 25 druid elder will fall easily even 25 archmage will fall easily too but beware of their fireball, we need tactic perk to face archmage with this strategy, i've tried this, and always work, but the major problem is only the cost for succubus mistress dwelling (+ the upg of course), in hard difficulty the cost is no problem, but in heroic, i suggest using this only if you're going to be rich man.
I forgot something, rushing your enemies with this splitting strategy is also very good, even if you're unlucky. Just with demons and 6 sucubuss mistresses + hellfire, you can bring down many enemies lv 1 - lv 3 stacks easily, then surrender and rehire and crush them with full force.
I don't recomend this strategy, because of its cost, only trying to remind many people here the power of hellfire in conjuction with sucubus mistress. Cerberus is also good because they can deal hellfire to 1-3 stacks with one attack (depends on the position of enemy stacks), but their chance of triggering hellfire is same with other inferno units except sucubus mistress.
However, this sucubus mistress+hellfire strategy can be replaced with another very cheap yet nice strategy, that is war machine, or cerberus+hellfire, but i often find that hell hounds are enough, it's true that they can't trigger hellfire to more than 1 stacks, but i don't need them for hellfire, if i'm going for hellfire, there is no other inferno units that can beat sucubus mistress, even cerberus is not that great compared to sucubus mistress, besides, 15 wood cost is crazy enough, and familiar deal enough damage.
If there is serious problem with druid elder, master hunter and archmage, just leave them untill you're strong enough to kill them without much loses or test your luck with horned overseer, and a little number of familiar, and a little number of hell hound or cerberi if needed.
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betruger
Known Hero
empowered mind
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posted April 22, 2007 02:46 PM |
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2007 05:24 PM |
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@Betruger: nice video
Btw, if you can do anything with grok, then all demon lords except deleb, alastor and jezebeth can do that, i'm not saying that those three can't do things like the rest, deleb is far more capable, but for alastor and jezebeth, they can do things like the rest except deleb, however their gameplay style is different, it's up to the player whether they want alastor and jezebeth playing hellfire game or use the style of other demon lords except deleb.
So, all demon lords except deleb have same style, but for hellfire, alastor and jezebeth is better because those sorcery and double mana regeneration perks. Other demon lords except alastor and jezebeth can also gain advantage from hellfire, but first, their mana problem must be solved, there is many way to solve it, no need to explain. Still, i must warn anyone who like using hellfire to its maximum potential, beware of its cost, but, if you play on rich map, then there is no problem.
Using hellfire maximum potential=hellfire+sucubus mistress. Using hellfire with another units is fine, but they're not that good compared with sucubus mistress. Also, using hellfire means inferno player must split their stacks to gain better chance, even without sucubus mistress, but beware of demon lord mana, in early days, if you're going hellfire everyday even with consume copse you won't have enough mana.
Imp/Familiar and hellhound/cerberi is another inferno units that is second after sucubus mistress. Hellfire + splitting familiar to 6 stacks and 1 full stack of demon can bring down any tough guard, even without hellfire, several stacks of gated creatures means many enemies's retaliation will be wasted, and one big stack of Imp/Familiar and those Demons can strike swiftly without being retaliated.
I realize now that every inferno heroes has the same capabilities (of course deleb is superior), unlike some other factions, there is still a little useless heroes in them.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 11:46 AM |
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Yeah, a nice break. I'd like to add that with power of speed and master of mind probably twice as many archdevils can be killed. I mean, this way gated cerberi and cerberi can score like 2-4 free hits before they return behind gated demons.
Also, it's generally good to gate some fodders far away from "base" because this will make devils turn back and attack poor innocent creatures that invaded their side
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 03:44 PM |
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Right, devil is easy, using cerberus only (splitted of course), mass slow, pupet master and frenzy you can take down those 45 devils, but you need very high knowlegde and consume corpse, also work on archangel or fallen angel, if you're lucky enough, it also work on emerald dragon.
The rest of lv 7 are hard for inferno to take them down in week 4.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted April 24, 2007 07:10 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 19:13, 24 Apr 2007.
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I think changing a Demonlord's focus on Knowledge to Power (Thus in effect making him focus mainly on Power and Attack) makes him nearly the same as Warlocks. Probably hence why nival made them focus on knowledge. Plus they need it for hellfire.
I wonder if instead of focussing on Knowledge or Power, he should focus 50-50 on both.
Different note: Warlocks are supposed to be the grand spell damage dealers, so this can't be done for Inferno, each faction needs to be unique.
Wouldn't it make sense to perhaps make Inferno focus more on destructive FIRE damage? Upping Fire Damage spells with a lesser regard for Spellpower, by ways of an ability.
On a different note: Pitlords should have higher initiative and should be able to cast Meteor shower twice, perhaps even thrice. That would give a nice boost to Inferno's destructo-fire magic thing. Same thing for succubi Mistressi perhaps. Fire spell damage doesn't nessecarily need to come from the demonlord, its units could deal it just as well.
What remains mostly still, is that major weakness against Dark Magic. Light magic aint an option, perhaps a special ability would.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 07:14 PM |
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Great idea Moonlith, yeah, i agree that inferno should make fire spells useful.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 24, 2007 07:26 PM |
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Quote:
I wonder if instead of focussing on Knowledge or Power, he should focus 50-50 on both.
Great idea! :good
Quote:
Wouldn't it make sense to perhaps make Inferno focus more on destructive FIRE damage? Upping Fire Damage spells with a lesser regard for Spellpower, by ways of an ability.
Now that I look about it, it's a decent suggestion for Inferno.
Not only that, but also having unique abilities for Fire spells (yes, unique).
But there is one problem tho: Dwarves are concentrated on fire magic. This is the worst Dwarves I've seen in any fantasy world.
Another option would be to make Inferno aimed towards "chaos magic" with special abilities that enhance Fire spells in a chaotic manner (that means, not with fire-boosts).
Also I think there should be an ability for Fire spells, that when targetting your own creatures (like with Fireball) to boost them up or something. Sure you use this only when you have the ability, but it would be cool if implemented and pretty unique.
Quote:
On a different note: Pitlords should have higher initiative...
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...and should be able to cast Meteor shower twice, perhaps even thrice.
A bit too much -- actually it would be better for them to have a lot of Fireballs, since that's fire. Or add them an Armaggedon per battle 
Quote:
Same thing for succubi Mistressi perhaps. Fire spell damage doesn't nessecarily need to come from the demonlord, its units could deal it just as well.
I always wanted Succubi to have some special "fire damage" instead of plain dumb physical damage.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted April 24, 2007 07:32 PM |
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Quote:
Also I think there should be an ability for Fire spells, that when targetting your own creatures (like with Fireball) to boost them up or something. Sure you use this only when you have the ability, but it would be cool if implemented and pretty unique.
This is definetely one of the best and most original idea I've seen in a while
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted April 24, 2007 07:32 PM |
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@TheDeath: Very creative and nice idea, about chaos magic thing, yeah it's pretty cool
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But there is one problem tho: Dwarves are concentrated on fire magic. This is the worst Dwarves I've seen in any fantasy world.
True can't stop laughing.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted April 24, 2007 07:36 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 19:40, 24 Apr 2007.
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Quote:
Now that I look about it, it's a decent suggestion for Inferno.
Not only that, but also having unique abilities for Fire spells (yes, unique).
But there is one problem tho: Dwarves are concentrated on fire magic. This is the worst Dwarves I've seen in any fantasy world.
Another option would be to make Inferno aimed towards "chaos magic" with special abilities that enhance Fire spells in a chaotic manner (that means, not with fire-boosts).
I dislike the fact Dwarves are concentrated on fire as well. They should sooner be concentrated on earth. I feel that should be changed...
Quote:
Also I think there should be an ability for Fire spells, that when targetting your own creatures (like with Fireball) to boost them up or something. Sure you use this only when you have the ability, but it would be cool if implemented and pretty unique.
I like that! But Hellfire does that already a bit (upping damage). I don't know how it would up them. Upping defence or restoring health doesn't seem very Demon like: With Demons I picture the believe "Who cares how many losses we take!" Plus, I have a bit of a problem with thinking about FIRE magic as a "supporting", stat-increasing element, perhaps in the form of rage or damage, but that's already in the game (hellfire). Fire doing healing or being defensive = a definate no no. Perhaps initiative or speed increasement?
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A bit too much -- actually it would be better for them to have a lot of Fireballs, since that's fire. Or add them an Armaggedon per battle
Yeah I realized just now Meteor Shower is earth damage. Quite confusing, they look like a series of fireballs anyway. It's a kickass spell though, and only one meteor shower per battle doesn't exactly cut it for Pit lords. I like the idea of armageddon!  Totally chaotic and carnage. Although it sounds like a spell Archdevils would be more likely to have.
As for fireballs, perhaps Demonlord should have a special ability that allows him to cast TWO fireballs at once when using the spell? Or something like that.
Quote:
I always wanted Succubi to have some special "fire damage" instead of plain dumb physical damage.
But that would leave them highly vulnerable against fire-resistant enemies. Higher attack or something, or higher initiative to fling more fire would make it better I think, and it would definately heat up the whole fire-idea of Inferno.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 24, 2007 07:41 PM |
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Quote:
I like that! But Hellfire does that already a bit (upping damage). I don't know how it would up them. Upping defence or restoring health doesn't seem very Demon like: With Demons I picture the believe "Who cares how many losses we take!" Plus, I have a bit of a problem with thinking about FIRE magic as "supporting", stat-increasing element, perhaps in the form of rage or damage, but that's already in the game (hellfire). Fire doing healing or being defense = a definate no no. Perhaps initiative or speed increasement?
That's what would make Inferno unique -- fire spells for boosting, no other race
and yes I was referring to initiative/speed/damage increase (not "instant" like Hellfire but as an effect like Righteous Might).
Quote:
Yeah I realized just now Meteor Shower is earth damage. Quite confusing, they look like a series of fireballs anyway. It's a kickass spell though, and only one meteor shower per battle doesn't exactly cut it for Pit lords. I like the idea of armageddon! Totally chaotic and carnage. Although it sounds like a spell Archdevils would be more likely to have.
Archdevils would have it as well, indirectly, they summon Pit Lords who use Armaggedon
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I always wanted Succubi to have some special "fire damage" instead of plain dumb physical damage.
There are not many fire enemies (apart from Fire elemental and Magma Dragon).
And for so few creatures you could use your other units to defeat them, if not it's like using damage casters against Steel Golems or against magic-immunity creatures 
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted April 24, 2007 07:42 PM |
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How about:
Every Infernal creature hit by a fire spell of the hero will have its attack increased by 50% for one turn. Also, the chances of Hell Fire ability to trigger are raised to 80% for the same amount
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There are not many fire enemies (apart from Fire elemental and Magma Dragon).
And for so few creatures you could use your other units to defeat them, if not it's like using damage casters against Steel Golems or against magic-immunity creatures
The Succubus' strike could also 'burn' the target for three turns.
Each strike of this creature burns the target, causing damage each turn. The burning damage is 75% of the damage dealt for the first turn, 50% for the second and 25% for the last. Does not work on creatures with fire-immunity
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