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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 14, 2011 06:11 AM |
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It is people choice. Muslim phenomenon became a major pain in France, massive fraud to social aids, violence, garbage, hate towards the "white", ghettos, drugs, therefore prisons are 99% muslim full. At some moment any demand on their side is perceived as one more provocation, and people said it is enough. Would they be chinese or else, nothing would be banned. When you feel invaded unfair laws may occur to keep a scrap of dignity. The law is more of a resistance symbol and a deny of the religious obscurantism , as will be hardly applied.
People living elsewhere can't imagine how is going here right now. It reached a dangerous level. And of course, quoting the 1% of muslim women which choose freely to wear the burka does not eliminate the problem of the 99% others which are forced by husband or family. Besides this, the muslim official representatives are very positive towards this law, pointing that there is no religious backup for this "tradition", but more of a perversion and paranoia of muslim husbands.
And to be fair, why would we care about their whining? When we visit their native countries, we are not allowed to wear what we want, do we??
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 14, 2011 06:49 AM |
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There is no need for this law - it's a restriction of personal freedom. There are already laws against forcing women to wear the burka - they're the laws that say a private individual forcing another private individual to do something is illegal. So this is really a law against those who wear the burka voluntarily, because that's the only thing that's different with this law.
So, are you saying the French are racist?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 14, 2011 07:11 AM |
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It is important that immigrants assimilate and understand the principles that the country is based on, what better way to teach them? People fighting for burkas are being bad citizens. Citizenship is a privilege for an immigrant, not a right.
If these women love their burkas and Traditional culture more than the culture they immigrated into, they should go back to where Sharia rules.Immigration is a CHOICE. You don’t get to change the place you immigrate to, YOU change, thats how it works. I just don’t understand why Muslims that fight for their sharia even want to live amongst infidels- they want the prosperity, jobs, healthcare, technology and welfare benefits, but don’t want the culture?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 14, 2011 11:55 AM |
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Enforcing your own cultural values to someone who belongs to another culture via laws is just another form of discrimination. Asking him to respect and contribute the country he/she lives in is one thing, forcing him to be assimilated by its culture is another. And normally doesn't work without a great deal of violence. Take the Balkans for example - most of the present-day countries on the peninsula have a 4-5 century history under the rule of the Islamic Ottoman Empire but you can find pockets of Muslims only where the Ottomans were especially brutal with the conversion (usually for practical purposes, like having loyal population on certain strategically important territories). The majority of the population is composed of non-Muslims, usually Orthodox Christians, following the legacy of the "Byzantine" Empire which was conquered in the middle of 15th century. Add that the Muslims are usually more stubborn than the Christians when it comes to their cultural heritage and you'll get the practical effectiveness of such laws.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 14, 2011 02:51 PM |
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As I said it reached unbelievable and unreal situations, where logic or political correct will fail. I invite those who claim the law " restricts freedom" to watch a few serious documentaries before:
Paris today
Europe today
My opinion is that it has very little to do with religion, but with a terrible cultures clash, while both can't coexist in same place. Banning the burka is banning a sign of radical islam, and all what it represents.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 14, 2011 05:30 PM |
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Quote:
As I said it reached unbelievable and unreal situations, where logic or political correct will fail. I invite those who claim the law " restricts freedom" to watch a few serious documentaries before:
Paris today
Europe today
My opinion is that it has very little to do with religion, but with a terrible cultures clash, while both can't coexist in same place. Banning the burka is banning a sign of radical islam, and all what it represents.
If people block the streets arrest them. If people preach bloodshed arrest them.
But don't arrest or fine women who want to wear a veil because it is part of their religion.
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Revelation
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 14, 2011 05:34 PM |
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Yeah right, then you will make a new thread "France arrest people for peacefully practicing their religion". Come on.
Should I remind that the law is banning any cloth which hide the face in public places, not explicitly burka. Does this looks like a "veil" to you?
They are banned, too:
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 05:54 PM |
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I agree with the law, I find it to be hypocritical to argue against it if you're a muslim or simply naive and blind if you're just sitting on the pedestal.
Furthermore I found it hilarious that a topic as minor as this should receive attention considering the vast freedoms reserved to all in muslim countries.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 14, 2011 06:09 PM |
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Sal:
France is based on the principles of "liberty, equality, fraternity". This ban is based on none of these. As long as they follow the law, it doesn't matter what culture they have besides that. If they want bad laws, then they must be opposed in the public square and at the ballot box - but even if they want bad law, that's not an excuse to preemptively apply bad law towards them. Sharia is one thing - if they want Sharia, stop them. But wearing burkas is unrelated.
Smithey:
Quote:
Furthermore I found it hilarious that a topic as minor as this should receive attention considering the vast freedoms reserved to all in muslim countries.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Eccentric Opinion
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 06:49 PM |
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I dont see it as wrong at all, I dont see other religions getting freedoms against country laws hence islam shouldnt either, hypocritical and hilarious as stated
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 14, 2011 06:53 PM |
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Islam wasn't "getting freedom against country laws". It was being treated equally.
And if you really don't like immigrants, cut your welfare state. Don't impose bad laws.
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Eccentric Opinion
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 06:55 PM |
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law of not walkin the street in a mask seems reasonable enough to me, if immigrants dont like the specific law, stay at home or move elsewhere
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 14, 2011 07:42 PM |
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Quote:
As I said it reached unbelievable and unreal situations, where logic or political correct will fail.
I am not talking about "political correctness" and by the way I'm usually against the latter as it's mockery of what it is supposed to be way too often. I'm saying that this won't have any positive effect in the long run and will only encourage further segregation and anti-something measures until the situation becomes openly violent. Many Muslims won't see such law(s) as measures against the radical Islam but against the Islam in general and even if they are peaceful breed, it will be easier to "radicalise" them this way. And I guess you don't want that.
Moreover, it's similar to forbidding the Christians to wear a cross or the Jews - the star of David.
Quote:
I agree with the law, I find it to be hypocritical to argue against it if you're a muslim or simply naive and blind if you're just sitting on the pedestal.
Furthermore I found it hilarious that a topic as minor as this should receive attention considering the vast freedoms reserved to all in muslim countries.
Then you simply don't see the point.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 14, 2011 07:45 PM |
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Quote:
Moreover, it's similar to forbidding the Christians to wear a cross or the Jews - the star of David.
One word: No.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 07:45 PM |
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Or maybe you don't, which is far more understandable 
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 14, 2011 07:50 PM |
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Quote:
One word: No.
One word: Explain.
Quote:
Or maybe you don't
Maybe. But it would be better to state your position more clearly as so far it's only "I like it and that's why it is correct".
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 08:02 PM |
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christain wearing cross = muslim wearing that moon thingy
muslim wearing vail = christian wearing kkk hood thingy on, both having masked faces
immigrants see a country, decide they want to live there hence accept the culture of the place they're moving to, immigrants should want to become a part of the new society and not work to make it a new society withing the society, otherwise we get another "NEW muslim country" like bosnia, kosovo as well as civil war within the country....
have you ever been to france, germany ? muslims live in a closed society, dont marry outside their religion, make 3 babies while germans and others make one, while germans work hard to pay taxes to support those babies, as long as muslims want a country within country instead of being a part of the new society they've chosen to move to there will be nothing but conflict... no more bending over, in france there were never women with vails nor fully clothed girls in the swimming pool, thats the way it should be, whoever doesnt like it, move the hell out...
should i be allowed to walk around with a mask on ?
can i have a machete as well and sacrifice animals on the street because I do voodoo ?
In amsterdam you can smoke weed, do so in asia pacific and you might get a death penalty... each country with their own law, respect it or dont go there, simple enough to me 
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bLiZzArdbOY
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted April 14, 2011 08:08 PM |
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That's an eloquent argument in favor of macro-level peer pressure.
If you don't want Muslims in your country, then don't take in Muslims. It's not as though the problems of multiculturalism weren't unpredictable. Some people were talking about the problems this would lead to decades ago, but they were cast aside at the time by people that thought immigrants would move and then suddenly abandon who they are and what they believe in.
Aggressive legislation certainly isn't going to help the issue. Ideologies almost always flourish under suppression. The best treatment for a bad ideology is to let it be blown out in the open. If people flock to it anyway... well, then you're basically screwed no matter what.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 14, 2011 08:17 PM |
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In addressing this issue, "Big" John Howell, a local Chicago radio talk show host, opined on the radio this morning that one of the biggest causes of problems like this is a failure of immigrants to assimilate into the regional culture. While Western cities used to be called melting pots, today, said Howell, they can best be thought of as tossed salads.
I thought that was a particularly amusing way to get the point across.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 14, 2011 08:23 PM |
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Quote:
immigrants see a country, decide they want to live there hence accept the culture of the place they're moving to, immigrants should want to become a part of the new society and not work to make it a new society withing the society, otherwise we get another "NEW muslim country" like bosnia, kosovo as well as civil war within the country....
The conflicts in Bosnia and Kosovo had nothing to do with immigration or religion.
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This thread is pages long: 
