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Vlaad
Admirable
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ghost of the past
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posted April 14, 2011 10:09 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 22:12, 14 Apr 2011.
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the same nationality... bosnians
Bosnian is not a nationality. It means a citizen of Bosnia. An Algerian can have French citizenship but it doesn't make him French.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 10:12 PM |
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the same nationality... bosnians
Bosnian is not a nationality. It means a citizen of Bosnia.
then whats a nationality in the case we discussed ? is muslim a nationality in your eyes ?
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 14, 2011 10:17 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 22:19, 14 Apr 2011.
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That's a good question. Obviously Bosnian Muslims consider themselves a separate nation. They even call themselves Bosniaks, not Bosnians or Muslims. One could be an atheist and a "Bosnian Muslim", which wouldn't make sense. Officially they are a nation since 1968. But I agree it's a complex issue since there's no universally accepted definition of a nation.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 10:37 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 22:37, 14 Apr 2011.
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That's a good question. Obviously Bosnian Muslims consider themselves a separate nation. They even call themselves Bosniaks, not Bosnians or Muslims. One could be an atheist and a "Bosnian Muslim", which wouldn't make sense. Officially they are a nation since 1968. But I agree it's a complex issue since there's no universally accepted definition of a nation.
don't believe everything you hear on wikipedias, bosnian muslims dont consider themselves bosniaks matter of fact it would be advised to never call one by that name if you ever visit there, only people in rural places with lower education use such terms, and theres no such thing as bosniak atheist, however everybody takes religion as he/she sees fit all around the world which is a funny concept...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 14, 2011 10:40 PM |
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An Algerian can have French citizenship but it doesn't make him French.
So true, unfortunately.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 14, 2011 10:40 PM |
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Smithey, I could be wrong but I do believe Vlaad is from that region of the world. My guess is he's probably got some good first-hand experience about the people and the ethnic/religious conflict that has gone on there over the last few decades.
I'm pretty sure he's not getting his information from wikipedia.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 14, 2011 10:45 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
An Algerian can have French citizenship but it doesn't make him French.
So true, unfortunately.
That was my feeble attempt to get back on topic. 
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 14, 2011 10:57 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 22:59, 14 Apr 2011.
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christain wearing cross = muslim wearing that moon thingy
muslim wearing vail = christian wearing kkk hood thingy on, both having masked faces
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Some atheists might decide to wear KKK hoods, but not Chrisitans. The KKK is about hate and intimidation. All true followers of Jesus follow his teaching to love, do good to, and pray even for their enemies.
False, KKK was a protestant christian group not atheistic one, spanish inquisition and christian wars against islam were not really that much about spreading love and praying for enemies...
False. The KKK was started by the democrat party to terrorize blacks. The New Testament writings say that any person who hates or murders does not know God. Jesus specifically says anyone who does not follow his teachings is not his. Therefore an atheist could be a member of the KKK whereas an acutal Christian could not.
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1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
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head covering one thing, mask over face other, christains and jews shouldnt be allowed to walk around with masks on as well, this is not muslim only law
I believe in freedom of religion. Each person should be able to practice his religion.
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Maybe you have misreaad the Qu'ran, as burqas only purpose is - to stop guys from raping women (loosing themselves to needs of flesh), it's not a religious requirement at all, and considering religious is such a strong thing I was silly enough to believe a person who has faith in god will be strong enough to resist raping women... I know its so hard to resist raping someone (oops sarcasm again)
No, I am a Christian but I have read the Qu'ran and it nowhere says for unveiled women to be raped.
The FACT is some Muslims interpret the Qu'ran as saying a burqa must be worn. Each person should be allowed to follow their own conscience in the matter rather than following the dictates of some beaurocrat in the government.
The French government is doing exactly what it says some Muslim men are doing. It is dictating how women will dress. That is sexist and intolerant of their religion.
Clicky
Quote:
Condemning the ban imposed on ‘burqa’ in France, Muslim leaders and clerics today said the “undemocratic” move violates basic human rights and appealed to the government to raise the issue with the European nation.
“The veil is an integral part of our religion. Banning it is against the freedom of religion.... The French government’s move is undemocratic and against secularism,” said a statement issued by prominent Islamic seminary Darul Uloom Deoband.
The joint statement was signed by Darul Uloom’s acting Vice Chancellor Maulana Abul Kasmi Banarsi and Deputy Vice Chancellor Abdul Khalique Madrasi.
The clerics also appealed to the government to raise the issue with the French government and press it to withdraw the ban.
France on April 11 became the first country in Europe to implement a ban on the wearing of full-face coverings, including the Islamic ‘niqab’. ‘Niqab’ or ‘burqa’ is full face covering, whereas veil is the traditional head covering.
Maulana Abdul Hameed Noamani, an Islamic scholar and a senior member of Jamiat-Ulema-e-Hind, said, “The ban is against basic human rights. Only a very small minority wear burqa... there was no need for such legislation. “Everyone should be allowed to follow their religious values,” he said.
Maulana Afroz Mujtaba, a senior cleric, said, “The ban on burqa was uncalled for. Everyone has a right to wear a cloth of his or her choice. Why such discrimination against minorities in Europe.”
Muslims with a population of 175 millions are the largest minority community in India. In 2009, a Muslim girl was not allowed by her college in Karnataka to attend classes wearing a burqa. The college and the girl later reached a compromise.
“In a democratic and secular set up, people have every right to practice the religion of their choice. Such a move (ban on burqa) will only strengthen extremist group in their propaganda against Western countries,” said Maulana Asghar Abbas, a Delhi-based cleric.
“The European countries should avoid steps which could help the radical groups,” he added.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 14, 2011 11:11 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 23:16, 14 Apr 2011.
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On the basic function it has, to reveal someones face
Well, special police squads wear masks too. And the doctors. And some actors. And so on. Obviously that's not enough to distinguish them properly.
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Im from there, yet I dont live there, and yes Republika Srpska is trying to seperate itself, matter of fact they have different ID's, different TV, even different money... Why the Muslim part doenst want to loose half of the country with its resources ? sorry was that a serious question ? maybe you should try and reconsider that one again, Why wouldn;t a country want to loose large parts of its territory ? Puzzle indeed
Well, here you are, you answered it yourself. How can the country be Muslim when it won't allow its non-Muslim territories - which are more than intending to remain such - to be separated from it?
Besides, you are disregarding other, more important things. Bosnia after the war is not Bosnia before the war. The population was initially heavily mixed with all the three nationalities co-existing in the same towns and villages. After the war you have "ethnically cleaner" territories - these of Republika Srpska on one hand and these of the Federation on the other. The Muslim population in Bosnia is not concentrated because it's composed of followers of the Qur'an but because of the war.
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And you dont think a better solution would be if turks became bulgarian, started mixing marriages, would do things for bulgaria instead of for further seperation of bulgaria ?
At this point they will hardly go as far as to request a separation. And no, I don't think that making them "Bulgarians" will achieve anything. They are citizens of the country, they are supposed to obey its laws, none of which forbids them to develop their own culture, and to contribute to its economical development - as long as they do it, I'm perfectly fine with them being whatever they want.
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The point is they don't want to learn the language, they dont want to be a part of german society
Learning the language can be enforced in one form or another and they shouldn't refuse it if they want to participate in the same economy - which is the main reason why they are still there. Like I said, this is not the same as forbidding them to have their own culture.
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No zeno, religion was a big part, as in the center of warfare churches and mosques were burnt down and opposites built on the ashes, serbians butchered muslims and muslims buthcered serbains, serbians never once butchered bosnian serbs and there were plenty of villages of those, croatians also had a small part and the only reason they never fought muslims is because muslims were never a treat to them. Once again if it were a national conflict serbs would butcher bosnian serbs however they never did so, and considering the war never spread into serbia whoever bosnian muslims butchered were actual bosnian serbs, meaning had the same nationality... bosnians
Burning, raping and pillaging is part of every war. The Serbians and the Croatians (and to some extent - even the Muslims) had as their purpose to create "ethnically clean" territories and they actually did pretty well. Of course Serbs didn't attack Serbs, their purpose (initially, it changed later) was to drive the other peoples off certain lands and to keep Bosnia part of Yugoslavia which at this point already was Serb-dominated state. In other words, the Bosnian Serbs and the Yugoslavian Serbs considered themselves the same people (just like the Bosnian Croatians and the Croatian Croatians considered themselves the same people). The Bosnian Serbs also had the support of the Yugoslavian army for quite some time, not to mention that the Yugoslavian military equipment in Bosnia itself was intentionally left in the hands of the local Serbian forces. The situation is somewhat different nowadays but back then you had Serbs vs. (Croatians vs./plus Muslims).
Look, Bosnia was the topic of my state exam in the university, I've read quite a few things about it. I can give you 100 reasons why this war wasn't religious but I think you can find this info yourself. Besides, we're way too off-topic already.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 14, 2011 11:31 PM |
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False. The KKK was started by the democrat party to terrorize blacks. The New Testament writings say that any person who hates or murders does not know God. Jesus specifically says anyone who does not follow his teachings is not his. Therefore an atheist could be a member of the KKK whereas an acutal Christian could not
.
First of all democrat or republican is irrelevant to what I've said which is that KKK were protestants who were against the catholic church however protestant is indeed christian.
Second thing your source is a biased one and also a bit irrelevant.
Third thing - what it says in the new Testament or quran or jewish torah usually has nothing to do with what people do in real life hence - mere facts - kkk christian, spanish inquisition christains
crusades also christians... sorry to burst your bubble but it is what it is, those were not atheist groups... but yes it is highly possible that a kkk member might be an atheist as well, agree with that.... they're cool like that they don't do profiling LOL
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1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
irrelevant, judge peopl by their actions not by what a book tells them to be
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Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
This one is a brilliant one, because indeed the word sheep is teh rigth one 
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I believe in freedom of religion. Each person should be able to practice his religion.
Pratice it all you want, don't break the laws of your country though, In quran and jewish torah people were allowed to have many wives, In salt lake city its allowed in NY its against the law, in saudia wear vails in france you cant do that,,, plain and simple
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No, I am a Christian but I have read the Qu'ran and it nowhere says for unveiled women to be raped.
Of course it doesnt call for anyone to be raped  I suggest you read prophet muhammads hadiths and you will see that the reason for a vail is not a religios one but instead to keep males hormons in check !!!! fact.
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The FACT is some Muslims interpret the Qu'ran as saying a burqa must be worn. Each person should be allowed to follow their own conscience in the matter rather than following the dictates of some beaurocrat in the government.
The problem with religion is that everybody interprets what he wants, one will go on a suicide mission, the other will go on a crusade... bottom line is every country has laws, just like france, your interpretation of any of the holly books is irrelavant, do what ever you want as long as youre not hurting anyone and are obeying the law...
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The French government is doing exactly what it says some Muslim men are doing. It is dictating how women will dress. That is sexist and intolerant of their religion.
No its not, its simply stating what you cant do regardless of your religion, walk naked in the streets, walk masked in a street, you wanna wear anything else feel free to do so, nobody wont arrest you if you have short sleeved shirt or a body armor, keep your private organs away from the public eye and keep the face uncovered so you can be recognized.
what it said in the rest is just a hilarious joke in my eyes...
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 15, 2011 12:06 AM |
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@smithey
You can keep repeating over and over that the KKK is Christian but it won't make it so.
The New Testament defines who is a Christian, not you. I already proved from the New Testament that a person can't hate or kill and be a Christian.
It is also a fact that the KKK was formed by the democrat party to terrorize blacks. The source I linked to gave all the relevant facts to prove that.
The Republican party was formed by abolitionists to end slavery. The democrat party fought against the end of slavery, fought for Jim Crow laws and fought against the Civil Rights bill of 1874
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The problem with religion is that everybody interprets what he wants, one will go on a suicide mission, the other will go on a crusade... bottom line is every country has laws, just like france, your interpretation of any of the holly books is irrelavant, do what ever you want as long as youre not hurting anyone and are obeying the law...
The problem with many atheists is they don't recognize anyone's right to practice their religion except for atheists. Those atheists want to dictate the religious practices of others.
Freedom of religion is a basic human right. The French law banning the burqa is intolerant, immoral and oppressive.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 15, 2011 12:16 AM |
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Edited by smithey at 00:31, 15 Apr 2011.
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Well, special police squads wear masks too. And the doctors. And some actors. And so on. Obviously that's not enough to distinguish them properly.
What are you ten yrs old or something ? none of those wear masks in public but only when engaging something in their line of work, what planet are you from ?
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Well, here you are, you answered it yourself. How can the country be Muslim when it won't allow its non-Muslim territories - which are more than intending to remain such - to be separated from it?
country is a muslim country, having republic within it that isnt muslim is irrelevant, have you heard of israel ? its a jewish country and for the past 50 yrs it had a region called palestine which is 100% muslim....seriously, you must stop talkin that much nonsense
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Besides, you are disregarding other, more important things. Bosnia after the war is not Bosnia before the war. The population was initially heavily mixed with all the three nationalities co-existing in the same towns and villages. After the war you have "ethnically cleaner" territories - these of Republika Srpska on one hand and these of the Federation on the other. The Muslim population in Bosnia is not concentrated because it's composed of followers of the Qur'an but because of the war.
first of all it wasnt heavily mixed, only the big cities were heavily mixed, regardless I dont even understand how is that releavant at all, and third thing is... its beyond me why would you explain to ME stuff about bosnia when you never even visited it ???
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At this point they will hardly go as far as to request a separation. And no, I don't think that making them "Bulgarians" will achieve anything. They are citizens of the country, they are supposed to obey its laws, none of which forbids them to develop their own culture, and to contribute to its economical development - as long as they do it, I'm perfectly fine with them being whatever they want.
1. If you dont mind having a society that wants nothing to do with you in your own city, I respect your view, your choice 
2. the fact they dont want the seperation is true for now, but what happens when they do ask for it (take into consideration they make 3 more babies than you bulgarians so in 20 years it wont be just 10% of bulgary) do you just cut of 30% of bulgaria and hand it over or will there be a conflict ? think about it and answer
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Learning the language can be enforced in one form or another and they shouldn't refuse it if they want to participate in the same economy - which is the main reason why they are still there. Like I said, this is not the same as forbidding them to have their own culture.
but they are refusing it, and they are a small fraction of the economy and a large fraction of social help received from german taxes
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Burning, raping and pillaging is part of every war. The Serbians and the Croatians (and to some extent - even the Muslims) had as their purpose to create "ethnically clean" territories and they actually did pretty well. Of course Serbs didn't attack Serbs, their purpose (initially, it changed later) was to drive the other peoples off certain lands and to keep Bosnia part of Yugoslavia which at this point already was Serb-dominated state. In other words, the Bosnian Serbs and the Yugoslavian Serbs considered themselves the same people (just like the Bosnian Croatians and the Croatian Croatians considered themselves the same people). The Bosnian Serbs also had the support of the Yugoslavian army for quite some time, not to mention that the Yugoslavian military equipment in Bosnia itself was intentionally left in the hands of the local Serbian forces. The situation is somewhat different nowadays but back then you had Serbs vs. (Croatians vs./plus Muslims).
Look, Bosnia was the topic of my state exam in the university, I've read quite a few things about it. I can give you 100 reasons why this war wasn't religious but I think you can find this info yourself. Besides, we're way too off-topic already.
Some of the stuff you're saying are correct, others just LOL... its funny you should think that reading a few things gives you more info than me... funny or sad, thats yet to be decided... maybe you should explain to me a few things about the israeli palestinian conflict now LOL
Edit : @ Elodin
Quote:
You can keep repeating over and over that the KKK is Christian but it won't make it so.
The New Testament defines who is a Christian, not you. I already proved from the New Testament that a person can't hate or kill and be a Christian.
It is also a fact that the KKK was formed by the democrat party to terrorize blacks. The source I linked to gave all the relevant facts to prove that.
The Republican party was formed by abolitionists to end slavery. The democrat party fought against the end of slavery, fought for Jim Crow laws and fought against the Civil Rights bill of 1874
I dont understand what are you missing there, KKK were protestants, were all the things you have claimed they were, however as well bombed churches because they opposed catholic ways, being protestants and all, what dont you understand there ??
regarding the testament... maybe we dont have the same definitions of christianity - so just answer me this
Is spain a christian country ?(they did inquisition)
Is vatican a christian place ?(they ordered the crusades war)
Is america an christian country ?( in god we trust and all of that but did a couple of wars and stuff)
now if you dont see all those as christians, please do tell me who are those christians exactly and which countries are considered christian countries ?
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The problem with many atheists is they don't recognize anyone's right to practice their religion except for atheists. Those atheists want to dictate the religious practices of others.
Freedom of religion is a basic human right. The French law banning the burqa is intolerant, immoral and oppressive
But france is a christian country man not an atheist one so what you even talkin about ? and it's not like im an expert or something but i dont think atheists have religion ???
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 15, 2011 12:35 AM |
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I don't get what is so hard to understand for some: France is NOT USA.
Religion is considered private and exposing its signs in public is provocation. For example, if a french president would pronounce "GOD" in some speech, this would be perceived as a foolish thing and he would lose any credibility, down to zero instantly. I understand that Elodin has to battle till death for his concepts, but you also must understand that religion, IN EUROPE, is not the same thing as in USA. It is irrelevant and declining. Certainly not a valid argument to pull on. Religion is at home. In public you are a citizen, and your face must be recognizable, this is respect.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 15, 2011 01:24 AM |
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I dont understand what are you missing there, KKK were protestants, were all the things you have claimed they were, however as well bombed churches because they opposed catholic ways, being protestants and all, what dont you understand there ??
regarding the testament... maybe we dont have the same definitions of christianity - so just answer me this
Is spain a christian country ?(they did inquisition)
Is vatican a christian place ?(they ordered the crusades war)
Is america an christian country ?( in god we trust and all of that but did a couple of wars and stuff)
now if you dont see all those as christians, please do tell me who are those christians exactly and which countries are considered christian countries ?
No, the KKK was a political organization. It was founded by democrats to terrorize blacks. The Republican party was founded to abolish slavery and fight for the rights of blacks.
The KKK was not a religious organization.
The New Testament clearly states (as I quoted already) that:
1) Anyone who claims to know God but who hates or murders is a liar. So any inquisition that was conducted was not conducted by actual Christians.
2) Followers of Christ (Christians) follow the teachings of Christ. Christ taught to love, do good to, and pray for even your enemies. Jesus said it does a person no good to call him Lord but not follow his teachings. Thus it is impossible that the people you mention were Christians.
Jesus warned there would be people who would claim to be his followers but who were actually wolves in sheeps clothing.
A nation can't be "Christian." Individual people who are "born again" are Christians. If you mean that a country is demographically Christian in that it is made up mostly of people who call themselves Christians that is irrelevant.
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and it's not like im an expert or something but i dont think atheists have religion ???
Atheists who say "God does not exist" are making a statement of faith. They have a religion. Atheism. There is not bit of evidence that God does not exist.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 15, 2011 01:45 AM |
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Quote:
. I understand that Elodin has to battle till death for his concepts, but you also must understand that religion, IN EUROPE, is not the same thing as in USA. It is irrelevant and declining. Certainly not a valid argument to pull on. Religion is at home. In public you are a citizen, and your face must be recognizable, this is respect.
The right to follow one's religion is a human right. It is sad that it is being oppressed in France. France should lose most favored nations status with the US.
Actually, even though atheists have never been more than a tiny fraction of the world's population, atheism is in woldwide decline. Certain denominations of Christianity are growing. Pentecostalism for instance.
Clicky
Quote:
According to Munich theologian Wolfhart Pannenberg, "Atheism as a theoretical position is in decline worldwide."
According to Oxford's Alister McGrath, Atheism's "future seems increasingly to lie in the private beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once regarded as its habitat," Christianity Today. [1]
Reasons cited for the decline of atheism include:
Substantive challenges to naturalistic explanations for the origin of life;
Substantive challenges to psychological theories viewing religion as a pathology, and a scientific demonstration of the health benefits of a spiritual life;
Philosophical challenges to the presuppositions and axioms of atheism, such as materialism;
The decline of Marxism and Leninism;
Tenuousness of belief in atheism by many of its own believers;
Reduction in atheism and resurgence of theistic belief worldwide;
Inhuman acts committed by atheists throughout the 20th century;
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 15, 2011 01:55 AM |
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Edited by smithey at 01:56, 15 Apr 2011.
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Quote:
No, the KKK was a political organization. It was founded by democrats to terrorize blacks. The Republican party was founded to abolish slavery and fight for the rights of blacks.
The KKK was not a religious organization.
KKK was a political organization with protestant affiliations, never claimed they were a religious organization, but only that they were protestants,,, republicans are as well political organization with a certain religious affiliation...
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The New Testament clearly states (as I quoted already) that:
1) Anyone who claims to know God but who hates or murders is a liar. So any inquisition that was conducted was not conducted by actual Christians.
THEN VATICAN ISNT CHRISTIAN IN YOUR EYES !!!!!
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2) Followers of Christ (Christians) follow the teachings of Christ. Christ taught to love, do good to, and pray for even your enemies. Jesus said it does a person no good to call him Lord but not follow his teachings. Thus it is impossible that the people you mention were Christians.
Jesus warned there would be people who would claim to be his followers but who were actually wolves in sheeps clothing.
By reading between the lines I assume you are a republican, considering republicans were pro iraq, instead of praying for their enemies, republicans aren't christians, so how can you be pro war yet at the same time be a christian ?
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Atheists who say "God does not exist" are making a statement of faith. They have a religion. Atheism. There is not bit of evidence that God does not exist.
I'm not really sure what I'm considered by your definitions but I dont have a "faith" that there's no god,I dont have faith that there are no vampires either, its more of a show me one and I'll believe it exists...
There isnt something I can show you or prove to you to convince you that there is no god and thats the meaning of having faith is it not ? Am I wrong ? Is there anything that would prove to you that there is no god ?
People like me on the other hand, you just show us something concrete and thats whats real to us, show me Zeus and Zeus is real, thats the meaning of not having faith because I dont know if there is a god or no god, as long as I havent seen one, it aint real to me, show me a god and it will be real to me... hence no faith but a way of life - what you see is what you get now...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 15, 2011 04:22 AM |
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France should lose most favored nations status with the US.
I don't think USA can give any lessons to anyone when it comes to oppressing people. First clean your house, then talk. If my memory does not betray me, you also started a thread for prohibiting muslims from building a mosque on ground zero, right? So, when it is near you, is not okay, but when is it far away, it is okay? How interesting.
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Actually, even though atheists have never been more than a tiny fraction of the world's population, atheism is in woldwide decline. Certain denominations of Christianity are growing. Pentecostalism for instance.
There are others links which say the opposite. And if you don't believe, at your next trip in Europe try to speak around you about GOD, you will see how little are interested. With time, people learned that your fate is here, in present world, you trigger it, and waiting for some divine intervention is clueless. And if God exists for real, he should judge someone not by his faith level but for his actions. So, believing or not is not important, but what was your behavior.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 15, 2011 04:24 AM |
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@ Elodin:
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False. The KKK was started by the democrat party to terrorize blacks. The New Testament writings say that any person who hates or murders does not know God. Jesus specifically says anyone who does not follow his teachings is not his. Therefore an atheist could be a member of the KKK whereas an acutal Christian could not.
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You can keep repeating over and over that the KKK is Christian but it won't make it so. ... It is also a fact that the KKK was formed by the democrat party to terrorize blacks. The source I linked to gave all the relevant facts to prove that.
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No, the KKK was a political organization. It was founded by democrats to terrorize blacks. The Republican party was founded to abolish slavery and fight for the rights of blacks.
This is what we call a rut. It is the inability to get your mind out of one track long enough to even consider that someone has a point. The major signs are the repeating of the SAME ARGUMENT over and over and over. It is the inability to admit that you just might be wrong about something. You and a few other people of your faith might agree with your world-view, but the rest of the world does not share your opinion, because that is what this is. An opinion. Everyone is entitled to them. The KKK is widely seen as a:
-White
-Protestant
-Racist
-Faction of a no longer existing political party
Democrats today (in America) are like the Republicans of back then. They will do whatever is best for the country as a whole.
What's going on in France is long overdue, in my opinion. If a person believes that because they hold a certain opinion of how the world was made/ how the world should be run that they are exempt from the law, then the law should punish them. If the religion told them to purge the heretics (Which is in a few places of the Qur'an and the Bible), would you let them practice their religion? No. Letting people get murdered is not something that you just let anyone do because of a concept like Freedom of Religion. Nor would you let them walk around in the nude all day long and let them rape whoever looked at them too long. (Yeah, I know that this isn't part of any religion's faith, but what if it was?) Why should women be discriminated against in a country that has gender equivalence and enforces that with law? Why is this a bad thing?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 15, 2011 07:30 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 10:06, 15 Apr 2011.
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The right to follow one's religion is a human right. It is sad that it is being oppressed in France. France should lose most favored nations status with the US.
What about Saudi Arabia? Quote:
Clicky
Quoting creationwiki again? The same article that Corribus ripped apart? Aside from China, I see little data in that entry. It even mentions that in Europe "the trend is not toward a Re-Christianization of Europe, but rather toward a Re-Paganization" (whatever that means). The article seems to deal more with the decline of atheism as a theoretical position. But it makes sense, although it'd be hard to tell whether the number of atheists is in decline or nowadays people in ex-communist countries feel free to express their religious beliefs. Finally, for all we know, the number of atheists might be rising but the percent could be falling because of the higher birth rates in developing countries. I'd love to see some serious surveys myself. EDIT: This might be one. To get back on topic, it's interesting to compare cultural differences:
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 15, 2011 08:28 AM |
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Also, I think, the position that everyone who does something Un-Christian isn't a Christian, has been disproven once and for all on page 13 of this thread.
Usually I don't like to point to me, but it was a pretty good summary of the reasons why Elodin is wrong, and the fact that Elodin didn't answer has been another telltale.
No sense to go through all this again.
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This thread is pages long: 
