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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 15, 2011 09:07 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:18, 15 Apr 2011.
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What are you ten yrs old or something ? none of those wear masks in public but only when engaging something in their line of work, what planet are you from ?
I'm explaining why the "mask" thing is pretty poor reasoning. And that's the only thing you've offered so far in terms of why the women shouldn't wear burqas. In the end you avoid giving a straight answer to the main question, which is "is the fact that it covers most of the body the most important part of the issue"? Judging from your other writings on the matter, I'd say that you don't give a damn about the mask but about that it's a specific cultural symbol.
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country is a muslim country, having republic within it that isnt muslim is irrelevant, have you heard of israel ? its a jewish country and for the past 50 yrs it had a region called palestine which is 100% muslim....seriously, you must stop talkin that much nonsense
It seems that's it fairly easy for you to label something "relevant" or "irrelevant" without providing evidences. And please don't talk about Israel, the situation there is such that this discussion has almost nothing to do with it.
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first of all it wasnt heavily mixed, only the big cities were heavily mixed, regardless I dont even understand how is that releavant at all, and third thing is... its beyond me why would you explain to ME stuff about bosnia when you never even visited it ???
You've been there before the war? What do you remember? Pray tell!
It's beyond me why do you think that visiting a country a few times makes you more reliable source of information than whatever other person who has visited it a few times. Not that I'm willing to believe such a-few-times-visitor, be it you or whoever you want. You said it yourself, you are not living there.
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2. the fact they dont want the seperation is true for now, but what happens when they do ask for it (take into consideration they make 3 more babies than you bulgarians so in 20 years it wont be just 10% of bulgary) do you just cut of 30% of bulgaria and hand it over or will there be a conflict ? think about it and answer
Look, let's not discuss this. Our main problem aren't the Turks. We are losing huge amount of people because of the emigration, inadequate health care, infrastructure, employment opportunities, crime rate and so on. The first is the main concern and it has much to do with the rest. How do you like more than 1 million emigrants for 20 years? If the Turks request a separation at any point - which will hardly happen before Turkey abandons its plans to become part of EU - there already won't me many of us left here. So no, that's not the real problem, even remotely.
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but they are refusing it, and they are a small fraction of the economy and a large fraction of social help received from german taxes
Make them! How many times do I have to say that this is not the same as forbidding them to have their own culture? The social helps are part of the economy. Everything which has something to do with the material existence is part of the economy.
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Some of the stuff you're saying are correct, others just LOL... its funny you should think that reading a few things gives you more info than me... funny or sad, thats yet to be decided... maybe you should explain to me a few things about the israeli palestinian conflict now LOL
If you haven't been there during the war (and prior to it) or don't have more reliable sources of information (if you have - feel free to show them), then it doesn't help your case to say that you are born there.
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VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted April 15, 2011 09:18 AM |
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How much control do you think the government should have over what people religious articles of clothing or jewelry a person may wear or other practices that are not harmful to others?
None.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 15, 2011 10:01 AM |
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Obviously, no one may be disadvantaged because of his religious beliefs.
Now, if muslim women can wear burqas in public, it means - due to not being allowed to be disadvantaged because of religious reasons - that EVERYONE has to be allowed to wear one, NO MATTER the reasons - in school, in shops, in public, everyone. Male or female.
So if pupils decide to completely mask themselves, no one can actually forbid it. If muslims could, but others not, "others" would be at a disadvantage.
Sports? Sure, but fully clothed only: If a muslim can demand complete protection of face and body, EVERYONE can.
Passport control, showing your face? Well, only in a private room and only in the prsence of a trusted third person...
Ever thought about that?
Now, you may be inclined to shrug and say, so what? But if you imagine schools and a teacher for a moment, standing in a classroom with a bunch of completely veiled teenagers...
Or think of what this would mean for security cameras and police work.
I mean, if it ain't a problem, you don't need to fix it, but it does seem to be one in France, which is why they try to fix it, and instead of coming up with general statements it might be better to delve into the specific situation France is in in this regard.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 15, 2011 11:08 AM |
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I think France did well with that law.
Finally a country shows to religious groups, that religious "laws" are NOT above country laws.
It is NOT about freedom in my eyes. Because if so, I will found a new religion, where it is IMPORTANT to always run around completely naked, especially as a man, and touch each others (from all human beings around) sexual organs to show how thankful we are God gave them to us. And it is important for those men to work in basic schools or in kindergartens to spread their religion to kids.
First school would be the school where the kids of Elodin go every day. Just to check how tolerant he is towards other religions 
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 15, 2011 11:39 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 11:44, 15 Apr 2011.
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Ever thought about that?
I have actually but again there is some quite serious selectiveness in such measures that bothers me. Following this logic, sunglasses, clothes with hoods and shawls should be banned as well, especially during the winter when people tend to wear jackets with hoods + shawls at the same time and you can't see their faces at all (not that a large number of people don't do it even during the summer). Security cameras are screwed big time. If you want consistency, get rid of them all and I'll agree. Still, I really doubt that public security is the issue here - at least not in this sense.
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I will found a new religion, where it is IMPORTANT to always run around completely naked, especially as a man, and touch each others (from all human beings around) sexual organs to show how thankful we are God gave them to us. And it is important for those men to work in basic schools or in kindergartens to spread their religion to kids.
That's invading another person's private space which is quite different from the situation with the burqas. And running naked on the street is still considered a taboo in the Western society while walking fully covered hardly is.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 15, 2011 02:43 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 14:47, 15 Apr 2011.
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@ Elodin:
This is what we call a rut. It is the inability to get your mind out of one track long enough to even consider that someone has a point.
Sorry, I provided evidence that no one can be a KKK member and a Christian. The New Testament says a follower of Jesus (a Christian) is a person who actually follows his teachings. Imagine that. 
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Democrats today (in America) are like the Republicans of back then. They will do whatever is best for the country as a whole.
No they are not. The dems fought against ending slavery, fought for Jim Crow Laws, fought against the Republican's attempts to grant blacks civil rights all along the way. The dem party leaders don't care about what is best for the nation and don't care about the Constitution and don't care about what the voters want. They care about passing their liberal agenda and nothing more.
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What's going on in France is long overdue, in my opinion. If a person believes that because they hold a certain opinion of how the world was made/ how the world should be run that they are exempt from the law, then the law should punish them
The law was passed specifically to oppress Muslims and take away their right to freely worship according to their beliefs. The French government does not respect the rights of women or religious people. They are moving towards a Stalin-style Marxist government.
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The right to follow one's religion is a human right. It is sad that it is being oppressed in France. France should lose most favored nations status with the US.
What about Saudi Arabia?
Yes, France joins the Saudis as a repressive regime.
JJ
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Also, I think, the position that everyone who does something Un-Christian isn't a Christian, has been disproven once and for all on page 13 of this thread.
Actually the atheists making false statements about who Christians are have been disproved.
I've never said a Christian is perfect, as you well know. But Christians are incapable of hate or murder according the the New Testament.
It is the New Testament that defines who a Christian is. Let us look again at the defining documents of Christianity.
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1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Can you read, JJ? The very first verse says a person who says he knows God but who does not follow his commandments is a liar.
According to Jesus his followers actually follow him. Imagine that. He said to love, do good, and pray for even your enemies.
No Christian hates. No Christian murders. The New Testament says any person who hates or murders and claims to be a Christian is a liar.
So we see that although a true atheist may indeed hate an murder, a true follower of Jesus will not. Atheists can repeat over and over until their face turns blue and their tongue falls out that Christians can hate or murder but that doesn't change the fact that Christians can't.
Some atheists have the strange notion that it is atheists who get to say who is a true believer. That is quite bizarre.
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Now, if muslim women can wear burqas in public, it means - due to not being allowed to be disadvantaged because of religious reasons - that EVERYONE has to be allowed to wear one, NO MATTER the reasons - in school, in shops, in public, everyone. Male or female.
Well, JJ, I personally don't want to dress like a woman but if you come to America you can if you want to.
I don't see a problem with you or anyone else wearing a burqa as long as you are willing to remove in in areas that need heightened security or for identification purposes.
You can go to any big city in America and you are likely to find someone running around in a mask. A clown on the way to a birthday party, a Star Wars Darth Vader fan, a trick or treater, someone going to a party, ski masks during the winter, ect.
Angelito
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Finally a country shows to religious groups, that religious "laws" are NOT above country laws.
Yes, like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, ect. Woooohooo! Those were some fun loving, freedom loving guys!!! They showed religious people who's the boss, huh?
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted April 15, 2011 02:46 PM |
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And in the past Christian leaders haven't been very tolerating toward other religions or atheist scientists.
Also, try walking into a bank wearing a ski mask... if you're wearing a burqa you won't be stopped (as this happened in france)
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 15, 2011 04:58 PM |
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Thank you, Elodin, for proving my point. 
The Dems from back then no longer exist. Look at the current democratic policies plz, not the 50ish year old policies. What you find just might surprise you. 
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The law was passed specifically to oppress Muslims and take away their right to freely worship according to their beliefs. The French government does not respect the rights of women or religious people.
If they were allowed to completely worship their full belief system, then they could, legally, come to America and execute the president and the vast majority of our current house of representatives and senate for being heathens and infidels. They could do the same in schools, houses, banks, etc, etc. When I mentioned the "Purge the infidels" part of their holy texts, I was actually dead serious. And their religion is moderately mild compared to some cults that have risen over the years... Should we give them absolutely free reign? Let me put that another way, would it be a good idea to let them do whatever the hell they want, when they want to? No, I don't think it would be a good idea.
"Does not respect the rights of women..."
Tell me, Eldoin, have you been to any country besides America and the Middle Eastern states + parts of Africa in over, say, the last 90 years? Women in France had more rights, earlier than in America, Britain, basically every other European country and all other countries listed above (Yes, including France. They just do that.) They fully respect the rights of women, but they don't want to deal with anything religious in public. (It really is rather annoying when someone comes around and chucks a vial of holy water at you... Yes, in fact that did happen to me. At bible school. When I was 12.)
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They are moving towards a Stalin-style Marxist government.
France has a dictator who summarily executes people who don't support him?  When did that happen?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 15, 2011 04:59 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 17:02, 15 Apr 2011.
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I'm explaining why the "mask" thing is pretty poor reasoning. And that's the only thing you've offered so far in terms of why the women shouldn't wear burqas. In the end you avoid giving a straight answer to the main question, which is "is the fact that it covers most of the body the most important part of the issue"? Judging from your other writings on the matter, I'd say that you don't give a damn about the mask but about that it's a specific cultural symbol.
Surgeons wear masks during operations so they wouldn’t infect patients, all of the “mask wearing people” you have mentioned, do so in their jobs, none of them does so in public therefore unless in Bulgaria doctors walk around malls, streets and shops in masks your example was a ridiculous one.
There is a body armor (that’s what I call it) which Muslim girls wear to conceal every inch of their body, leaving skin invisible, go ahead and wear it, hats outside, go ahead (wearing a hat inside is a bit rude in my opinion but nobody wont say anything if you do so) concealing your face is out of the question, that is something robbers do. Mask is disrespectful, inappropriate and rude, If I’m with my girl in saudia she will not wear tiny skirts because she respects other country’s laws, In france you will not conceal your face, matter of fact I think its reasonable to ask for the same rule everywhere in the world, if somebody doesn’t like the rule he should move the hell out.. plain and simple.
I’m sick and tired of religious people raping the rest of us while screaming religious freedoms when in fact they are asking for special treatment, we are all equals in the eye of the law.
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It seems that's it fairly easy for you to label something "relevant" or "irrelevant" without providing evidences. And please don't talk about Israel, the situation there is such that this discussion has almost nothing to do with it.
Of course it’s easy because it is in fact irrelevant. What evidence are you asking for ?
- Bosnia is a muslim country, it’s a fact.
- Bosnian citizens cant go to any non-muslim country without a visa (to be granted one, one must wait a lot of time btw), that’s a fact.
- Sarajevo is the capitol of Bosnia, In Sarajevo there are more than 200 mosques and less than 10 churches, show me one capitol in the world that has 200 mosques and also isn’t a capitol of a muslim country, oh wait, you cant do that because there is no such thing is there ?
So please do tell me what other evidence do you need or which of those facts you don’t find to be truthful enough ?
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You've been there before the war? What do you remember? Pray tell!
It's beyond me why do you think that visiting a country a few times makes you more reliable source of information than whatever other person who has visited it a few times. Not that I'm willing to believe such a-few-times-visitor, be it you or whoever you want. You said it yourself, you are not living there.
What do I remember ?
I remember we never saw ourselves as anything but yugoslavians prior to the war, I remember slovenians started acting up around 89-90, I remember croatians started to do the same a year later, I remember the exact day in april when snipers started shooting on pretestors in front of gov buildings in sarajevo which was so shockin we didnt even understand what it means, I remember the following few days when we were playing football and granades started falling around, we didnt even run because we didnt know what it is, that is untill one of the kids from the other building (we used to play tournaments against other buildings in football) suddenly wasnt there any more, I remember learning you have to burn human bodies in dumpsters because of the diseases, and oh boy how I remember the stench the human body has, I remember how you cant eat as much because you have to assume there wont be any food tomorrow, I remember how I first saw my parents cry before that I thought grown ups dont cry, I remember how I had to run between snipers to get some water because during the siege we barely ever had water or electricity, I remember how happy I was to take a shower and I hated showers, I remember how every time a sniper was caught they would throw him down from the 21-st floor, I remember how my comics collection had to go in flames because winter with no electricity is not a fun thing to go through, I remember how we fled to the states with united nations convoy close to the end of 93 and not because the united nations did their job but because they took thousands of dollars from us to transport us, I remember seeing fields filled with naked women and children killed only because they had the wrong religion, better yet because they were visited by soldiers from the opposite side, I remember not understanding how could people hate the same people they called friends a month ago. I remember way too many things and many of them I would gladly forget... So what a hell are you talking about at all ? How can you know more about JNA bombing ME, or what the warfare was all about ?
I have a flat in the center of Sarajevo, I have visited there approximately dozen times over the last two decades, I have family in vojvodina (Serbia) in Split (croatia) and my parents live in Sarajevo, yet somehow you are a more reliable source than a person who knew bosnia before the war, during the war and saw the way it changed after the war? Have you ever spoken to a Bosnian at all? I seriously find your statements amazing  I just don’t get if its you being stubborn or do you actually believe those things? As i have stated before while you're at it, enlighten me on an israeli conflict as well, because after all I've just lived here 10 yrs, served in the army and eluded three suicide bombs, you probably know more of that as well... ridiculous, it's like a sex expert whos also a virgin
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Look, let's not discuss this. Our main problem aren't the Turks. We are losing huge amount of people because of the emigration, inadequate health care, infrastructure, employment opportunities, crime rate and so on. The first is the main concern and it has much to do with the rest. How do you like more than 1 million emigrants for 20 years? If the Turks request a separation at any point - which will hardly happen before Turkey abandons its plans to become part of EU - there already won't me many of us left here. So no, that's not the real problem, even remotely.
Well the fact there are worse problems than turks doesn’t change the fact it still is a problem however I do get it’s a small problem when compared to other ones facing your country. It’s a sad thing, I had no idea things were that bad in Bulgaria. 
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Make them! How many times do I have to say that this is not the same as forbidding them to have their own culture? The social helps are part of the economy. Everything which has something to do with the material existence is part of the economy
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Force them to learn german language and become a part of the german society but don’t make them take off their masks, sounds a bit paradoxical to me.
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If you haven't been there during the war (and prior to it) or don't have more reliable sources of information (if you have - feel free to show them), then it doesn't help your case to say that you are born there.
Ha ? I think I have answered that one already and I have no idea why did you assume I vanished into tin air after being born in bosnia...
@ Elodin
Christian is not a man following the strict christian law, christian is a man being born as a christian or converting to one and believing in christ, god, heaven and hell. My mom believes in god and is a christian so I know a thing or two, not an expert on the subject but im pretty sure confession and forgiveness play major role in christianity, as such, murderers and liars are called sinners and not non-christians as you have chosen to call them!!! The mere idea of you claiming that christian is only a person who follows the new testament laws in a strict way is ridiculous and pretty much offensive to christians because by stating so, you've eliminated every christian who ever told a lie or commited a sin from christianity... What sort of a damaged logic is that ?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 15, 2011 05:56 PM |
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@smithey
A member of the KKK is not a person who accidentally falls in a moment of temptation. A Klansman rejects the heart of what it is to be a Christian.
Jesus said everything God expects of a man can be summed up as to love God and love your fellow man. The Klan teaches to hate one's fellow man if that man is not white. The Klan is in opposition to Christ.
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Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 15, 2011 06:08 PM |
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@ Elodin
When the KKK was in existance, blacks and native americans were viewed as property or non-humans by the southern white population. Does the bible say to not kill an animal? Because that's what people in the KKK thought of the African Americans at the time. So, according to their definition of what is human and what is not, the KKK did nothing worse than kill a few skilled dogs. The rest of today's modern world is disgusted with what they did, but they believed that they were Christians who were doing nothing wrong, just killing a few dogs who had hurt people.
Counter argument?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 15, 2011 06:37 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 18:50, 15 Apr 2011.
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Surgeons wear masks during operations so they wouldn’t infect patients, all of the “mask wearing people” you have mentioned, do so in their jobs, none of them does so in public therefore unless in Bulgaria doctors walk around malls, streets and shops in masks your example was a ridiculous one.
There is a body armor (that’s what I call it) which Muslim girls wear to conceal every inch of their body, leaving skin invisible, go ahead and wear it, hats outside, go ahead (wearing a hat inside is a bit rude in my opinion but nobody wont say anything if you do so) concealing your face is out of the question, that is something robbers do. Mask is disrespectful, inappropriate and rude, If I’m with my girl in saudia she will not wear tiny skirts because she respects other country’s laws, In france you will not conceal your face, matter of fact I think its reasonable to ask for the same rule everywhere in the world, if somebody doesn’t like the rule he should move the hell out.. plain and simple.
I’m sick and tired of religious people raping the rest of us while screaming religious freedoms when in fact they are asking for special treatment, we are all equals in the eye of the law.
You should have skipped the first part, the last sentence says enough. You just can't be objective. I'm sick and tired of religious bull$hit myself but I'm not willing to switch my brain off and drown into propaganda nonsense. If you haven't read my reply to Jolly-Joker above, do read it and answer me - how does a burqa-wearing girl differ from a random person with a cloth cap, sunglasses and high neck-piece which are all perfectly legal thingies and yet can make you completely or at least sufficiently unrecognisable? Do you need me to point all the possible clothing combinations which can make you just as masked as a burqa-wearer but are not banned? What's the point though, you are not interested whether someone is masked or not, you are interested in whether he/she's a Muslim (in this case). Why don't you call the things with their real names?
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Of course it’s easy because it is in fact irrelevant. What evidence are you asking for ?
- Bosnia is a muslim country, it’s a fact.
- Bosnian citizens cant go to any non-muslim country without a visa (to be granted one, one must wait a lot of time btw), that’s a fact.
- Sarajevo is the capitol of Bosnia, In Sarajevo there are more than 200 mosques and less than 10 churches, show me one capitol in the world that has 200 mosques and also isn’t a capitol of a muslim country, oh wait, you cant do that because there is no such thing is there ?
So please do tell me what other evidence do you need or which of those facts you don’t find to be truthful enough ?
Look, maybe somebody else has to tell it to you, but this is just ridiculous. You have a state within the state - Republika Srpska - which has very large autonomy, has non-Muslim population, can influence the decision-making of the whole country - not only its territory, but because you have mainly Muslims in and around Sarajevo after the Dayton Treaty and a whole war full of ethnic cleansing and population re-allocation, then what do you know, the entire country is Muslim! It doesn't matter that it's under international supervision and actually can't even be called independent state, it doesn't matter that the Muslims themselves don't want to let the Serbs and Croatians which are both Christians or at least non-Muslims secede, it doesn't matter that they will never be accepted in the EU if they show even a small doubt that Europe will tolerate an Islamic state like those in the Middle East within its borders. In short, nothing really matters to you.
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What do I remember ?
OK, you've been there and you obviously have some bad experience, but you were claiming that this was a religious war, remember? And in your very first sentences you say that all of you Yugoslavians suddenly became Serbs, Croatians and Bosnia Muslims. And this is not nationalism, this is religion. Maybe I'm missing something, but where's the logical consistency?
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Force them to learn german language and become a part of the german society but don’t make them take off their masks, sounds a bit paradoxical to me.
They need to become part of the society as much as they can actively contribute to it (and not damage it in any way) and the language barrier is quite an obstacle for this. Assimilating them is not exactly the same, agree or not? I can tell you a story, just for illustration, about the other minority we have here which has absolutely no desires to request independence, or move anywhere, or even claim that it has any culture at all but manages to be more problematic than the Turkish one because it consumes far more than it produces.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 15, 2011 07:52 PM |
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If you haven't read my reply to Jolly-Joker above, do read it and answer me - how does a burqa-wearing girl differ from a random person with a cloth cap, sunglasses and high neck-piece which are all perfectly legal thingies
Sorry, you are wrong. Try to go to school and take the classes in your suggested outfit, and you'll see what I mean.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 15, 2011 08:20 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:22, 15 Apr 2011.
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Sorry, you are wrong. Try to go to school and take the classes in your suggested outfit, and you'll see what I mean.
Don't make me find you pictures. And this really depends on the country. Where I am you can see half-naked girls with belt-like skirts and generously exposing low neck, as well as all kinds of dressing, including masking, among the boys in the classrooms so maybe I can't give the best example (that's not really the norm but you can see it often enough in every school), but believe it or not, you can see a lot here. And I somewhat doubt that this is some domestic product.
And that's not the point anyway. You may be stopped and asked to take off "the mask" at school and at the major municipal/government buildings, eventually while you are inside some bank building or large trade centres, but nobody will tell you anything on the street or on most other places.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 15, 2011 10:53 PM |
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Edited by smithey at 22:56, 15 Apr 2011.
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You should have skipped the first part, the last sentence says enough. You just can't be objective. I'm sick and tired of religious bull$hit myself but I'm not willing to switch my brain off and drown into propaganda nonsense. If you haven't read my reply to Jolly-Joker above, do read it and answer me - how does a burqa-wearing girl differ from a random person with a cloth cap, sunglasses and high neck-piece which are all perfectly legal thingies and yet can make you completely or at least sufficiently unrecognisable? Do you need me to point all the possible clothing combinations which can make you just as masked as a burqa-wearer but are not banned? What's the point though, you are not interested whether someone is masked or not, you are interested in whether he/she's a Muslim (in this case). Why don't you call the things with their real names?
Nope, dont care what's her religion, dont care whats her ethnicity and dont care whats her color, if she/he is wearing a mask or something else that covers her/his entire face hence making her unrecognizable it should be against the law, I can recognize you with sunglasses, I have been in a couple of places throughout the world and I have yet to see masked people walking the streets, maybe you have seen a couple of weirdos on a strange day but there is no such thing as people walking with masks unless its halloween... Im objective by expecting all laws to apply to all people of all religions and minorities, the same rules apply to all is an objective stance, making differences between team A and B is a subjective way of thinking....
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Look, maybe somebody else has to tell it to you, but this is just ridiculous. You have a state within the state - Republika Srpska - which has very large autonomy, has non-Muslim population, can influence the decision-making of the whole country - not only its territory, but because you have mainly Muslims in and around Sarajevo after the Dayton Treaty and a whole war full of ethnic cleansing and population re-allocation, then what do you know, the entire country is Muslim! It doesn't matter that it's under international supervision and actually can't even be called independent state, it doesn't matter that the Muslims themselves don't want to let the Serbs and Croatians which are both Christians or at least non-Muslims secede, it doesn't matter that they will never be accepted in the EU if they show even a small doubt that Europe will tolerate an Islamic state like those in the Middle East within its borders. In short, nothing really matters to you.
1. treaties mean nothing, it never will be a part of Eu, and republica srpska cant influence nothing in bosnia but only in republica
2. can go only to muslim countries without visas
3. capitol city (which by definition represents the state) has 200+ mosques
2+3 = muslim country, you have the entire world at your disposal, find one country at which the capitol has more than 200 of any religion as opposed to less than 10 of the other religions, and if it indeed isnt a christian/muslim/jewish country according to whoever had the 200+ I will apologize and agree with everything you ever say from this moment further, EVERYTHING you ever say in any thread on any topic... You have the entire world at your disposal, FIND ONE !!!! good luck with that BTW
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OK, you've been there and you obviously have some bad experience, but you were claiming that this was a religious war, remember? And in your very first sentences you say that all of you Yugoslavians suddenly became Serbs, Croatians and Bosnia Muslims. And this is not nationalism, this is religion. Maybe I'm missing something, but where's the logical consistency?
Obviously you are missing something
Croatians = catholics, slavs speak serbo-croatian
Serbs = pravoslavs, slavs speak serbo-croatian
muslims = muslims, slavs speak serbo-croatian
in one sentence that sums it all up :
In the Bosnian conflict - the three sides "are of the same race, speak the same language, and are distinguished only by their religion in which none of them believe."
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They need to become part of the society as much as they can actively contribute to it (and not damage it in any way) and the language barrier is quite an obstacle for this. Assimilating them is not exactly the same, agree or not? I can tell you a story, just for illustration, about the other minority we have here which has absolutely no desires to request independence, or move anywhere, or even claim that it has any culture at all but manages to be more problematic than the Turkish one because it consumes far more than it produces.
What they need to do is not what they choose to do,
you cant force someone to be a part of a society and at the same time claim to be against "forcing" them into not wearing masks.. thats a paradox.
I can only assume you're talking about gypsies which only proves the point of minority not wanting to be a part of the society it lives within, and thats f'ed up and thats exactly what France wants of muslims, the message is if you;ve missed it - You're French NOW, be like us, practice islam in your homes, in your mosques, do whatever you want in private lives but make an effort to be French people because that is what you are now, that is what you have chosen to be when you have decided to come to France
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 16, 2011 12:29 AM |
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They haven't broken any laws, they're not harming anyone by not following French customs - as long as they abide by French law, they don't have to follow French culture. They're not hurting anyone by being culturally foreign. As long as they follow the law.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 16, 2011 12:56 AM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 01:00, 16 Apr 2011.
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@smithey
A member of the KKK is not a person who accidentally falls in a moment of temptation. A Klansman rejects the heart of what it is to be a Christian.
Jesus said everything God expects of a man can be summed up as to love God and love your fellow man. The Klan teaches to hate one's fellow man if that man is not white. The Klan is in opposition to Christ.
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Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Good points but I'd consider moving it to a thread on Christianity and why a Christian cannot hate.
Let's stick to the topic, ignore the off-topics and if you wish to address them ,do so in another thread. I have interesting questions for you as well but do not wish to hijack the thread.
So the law in France bans people from wearing face masks to prevent the spread of flu? What happens when pidgeon flu or rat flu hits France?
Edit: I bring up this point because when my Husband contracted the flu during the swine flu epidemic, he wore a mask at all times as common courtesy when he had to go out in public, or near anything the family used. He even sequestered himself in the basement to prevent our eldest son who was roughly half a year old at the time from getting it.
I should think that if somebody forcefully tried to remove my mask when I am trying to protect them, I would possibly, accidentally cough in their face.
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Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 16, 2011 12:56 AM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 01:23, 16 Apr 2011.
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In the Bosnian conflict - the three sides "are of the same race, speak the same language, and are distinguished only by their religion in which none of them believe."
Not true, they are different nationalities.
The fact that they belong to different religions or denominations had nothing to do with the war or this thread. The conflict in former Yugoslavia was national in nature. The goal of the belligerents was forming independent national states. Like all conflicts, it also had other ramifications, including religious (the destruction of places of worship being common practice). Quote:
2. can go only to muslim countries without visas
3. capitol city (which by definition represents the state) has 200+ mosques
2+3 = muslim country
2. No, citizens of Bosnia can travel to most of the EU (the Schengen Area) without visas.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 16, 2011 01:22 AM |
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@ Elodin
When the KKK was in existance, blacks and native americans were viewed as property or non-humans by the southern white population. Does the bible say to not kill an animal? Because that's what people in the KKK thought of the African Americans at the time. So, according to their definition of what is human and what is not, the KKK did nothing worse than kill a few skilled dogs. The rest of today's modern world is disgusted with what they did, but they believed that they were Christians who were doing nothing wrong, just killing a few dogs who had hurt people.
Counter argument?
1) The KKK still exists today an an atheist made a claim it is Christian in nature. I have already proved that is not the case. A Christian loves God and loves his fellow man.
2) The Bible teaches quite clearly that all races and both genders are equal. Were you aware that Moses married an Ethiopian?
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Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
There are quite some other instances like an Ethopian man asking Phillip about what some verses in Isaiah mean. The man when he understood asked to be baptized and Phillip did so. Phillip in fact had been directed to the man by God according to the passage.
There is no Biblical justification for racism and such a concept in fact opposed to the teaching of the Bible.
3) The New Testament clearly states that a Christian is incapable of hate or murder. I've already quoted those verses a couple of times in the thread. So regardless of whatever the prevailing opinion of the KKK was/is a true Christian would not hate a black person or murder him.
4) The KKK burns crosses. The cross is a sacred symbol in Christianity. Burning a cross is the equivalent to urinating on a cross. No Christian would do that.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 16, 2011 01:24 AM |
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Edited by smithey at 01:34, 16 Apr 2011.
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Not true, they are different nationalities.
The fact that they belong to different religions or denominations had nothing to do with the war or this thread.
Nationality had nothing to do with the war but agreed it has nothing to do with the thread
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2. Not true, citizens of Bosnia can travel to most of the EU (the Schengen Area) without visas.
Are you a Bosnian or do you have family in bosnia with bosnian passports? If not it's advised to shut up instead of talking about stuff you're unfamiliar with. Biometric passports have been introduced and are supposed to allow passage however nobody doesnt even have those passports yet...
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@Elodin please stop talking as if you are representing all the christians of the world, christians kill just as good as jews, atheists and muslims do even though all three books forbid that act. What you're talking about is christian as you see him not as it is in reality, In your eyes christians dont lie, in the real world 99.99999999% of people lie including christians and you have a zero say in the aspect of what is christian, the only thing you are entitled to is your own opinion and your interpretation of the NT, which is far away from the universlal truth in a same manner we're far from Venus.
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This thread is pages long: 
