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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 22, 2011 11:05 PM |
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Quote:
What about the conflict in Northern Ireland with Catholics and Protestants shooting themselves with friggin machine guns on the streets and many innocents/civillians dying? That isn't evil caused by stupid RELIGION in the hands of humans?
Though you are partially correct, no - not entirely. I wouldn't say the religious difference was as great a causation to the conflict as you imply... just a consequence. That turmoil was mainly fuelled by a welling up of hundreds of years of political oppression. The church nonsense was just another dividing factor between nationalism and unionism, but not the main source of acrimony. Although it can't have helped.
You want to scapegoat the church in Ireland? Google for the Ryan Commission and enjoy the horrifying read. But both examples are simply perversions of the "true" Christian doctrine which Corribus outlined, as far as I'm concerned. Reprehensible individuals using religion as their own malleable tool, I suppose you could call it.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted March 23, 2011 12:11 AM |
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Part of Christ's message is that he is God and if you don't obey his gospel you burn in hell
OK,If i have nver sinned,never dones any harm but dont believe in God,will I burn in hell?
This debates never get old.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 23, 2011 05:22 AM |
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If i have nver sinned
The problem is, Christians think everyone sins a lot. Even when they don't realize it.
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Eccentric Opinion
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted March 23, 2011 05:47 AM |
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OK,If i have nver sinned,never dones any harm but dont believe in God,will I burn in hell?
According to the bible, not believing in God is, in fact, a sin. 
Now, a better question would be, I believe in God, I live a perfect, sheltered life where I am never exposed to sin, nor am I a sinner. I am only taught the word of God. But, when I die, I have not accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. What happens to me?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted March 23, 2011 07:56 AM |
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Then no man or woman has ever been nor will ever be a Christian. Ever. 1) For we are made of flesh, and thus flawed. 2) Everybody is capable of hate. In fact with the bile that has been spewn on this board from both sides..that in itself is proof.
"Come as you are." simple enough phrase. *shrugs*
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Message received.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 23, 2011 04:24 PM |
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bouddha was a sinner? lol
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted March 23, 2011 05:23 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 17:35, 23 Mar 2011.
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Quote:
Then no man or woman has ever been nor will ever be a Christian. Ever. 1) For we are made of flesh, and thus flawed. 2) Everybody is capable of hate. In fact with the bile that has been spewn on this board from both sides..that in itself is proof.
"Come as you are." simple enough phrase. *shrugs*
The problem is see is that simply not believing in god makes asomebody a sinner.This is stupid.If I live a semi-christian life but dont believe in god,I am cast to hell.
How is not believing in god a sin?
See Schopenhauer's quote:
"If God made this world, then I would not want to be God. It is full of misery and distress that it breaks my heart. –Schopenhauer"
It makes me think "Why believe in that deity when it does nothing to prevent bad-evil"?
Can somebody explain how despair becomes a sin?DOes that mean I have to be non-stop cheerful in life?Its like saying pain is a sin.You should not feel pain if you pretend to be christian.
We know that depression is an illness.Now,someone with an illnes is sinful?
To any christian,how would you explain me the following.When somebody is about to die from ,say tuberculosis,and you give him/her medication,you interfere with the "Workings of God".You save his life.Isn't this a sin?Clearly,god gave him/her tuberculosis,you saved him/her from God?
Funny,this realtes to the standart europian trend on the streets,"If somebody asks for help,ignore and move"."
But that is another issue..
Same with suicide,if somebody chooses to end his own life,he will be cast to hell because God did not want you to die,your own life is not even yours totally,it is basically leased.
Anybody?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 23, 2011 06:00 PM |
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Then no man or woman has ever been nor will ever be a Christian. Ever. 1) For we are made of flesh, and thus flawed. 2) Everybody is capable of hate. In fact with the bile that has been spewn on this board from both sides..that in itself is proof.
"Come as you are." simple enough phrase. *shrugs*
You may not be able to fathom that a person can live without hate, but I can assure you that it is so. Christians don't hate. That is a fact that the Bible makes quite clear.
Jesus does invite everyone to come to him. When you come to him you will be changed. Born again.
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The problem is see is that simply not believing in god makes asomebody a sinner.
Adam and Eve sinned. Their descendants are a race of sinners. But that does not let us off the hook. We each have chosen to sin.
Quote:
"If God made this world, then I would not want to be God. It is full of misery and distress that it breaks my heart. –Schopenhauer"
Man brought misery upon himself. He started off in Eden.
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It makes me think "Why believe in that deity when it does nothing to prevent bad-evil"?
God has given us free will. You can chose to be a jerk and bring misery on others or you can love and do good to others as God has said to do.
God has acted to bring about the end of evil in his creation. He manifested himself as the man Jesus Christ and died for us. Today is the Day of Salvation. The next "day" is the Day of Judgement.
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We know that depression is an illness.Now,someone with an illnes is sinful?
No, being depressed is not sin.
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To any christian,how would you explain me the following.When somebody is about to die from ,say tuberculosis,and you give him/her medication,you interfere with the "Workings of God".You save his life.Isn't this a sin?Clearly,god gave him/her tuberculosis,you saved him/her from God?
Why do you think that sickness is a "work of God?" Germs, toxins, lifestyle, ect are ordinarily the cause of sickness.
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Same with suicide,if somebody chooses to end his own life,he will be cast to hell because God did not want you to die,your own life is not even yours totally,it is basically leased.
Suicide is self-murder and is a repudiation of faith in God.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 23, 2011 06:09 PM |
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Man brought misery upon himself. He started off in Eden.
are you saying that because adam and eve were sinners, thus, we are all sinners?
that would be like saying that a whole nation is made of bloodthirsty people because centuries ago they started a war.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted March 23, 2011 06:17 PM |
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You may not be able to fathom that a person can live without hate, but I can assure you that it is so. Christians don't hate. That is a fact that the Bible makes quite clear.
Then Christians are either lobotomized or not human.
Because every single human being has hatred.
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Why do you think that sickness is a "work of God?" Germs, toxins, lifestyle, ect are ordinarily the cause of sickness.
But they are gods creation!
How can they not be the work of god then?
Just like natural distasters you know.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 23, 2011 09:55 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 21:58, 23 Mar 2011.
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Quote:
The problem is see is that simply not believing in god makes asomebody a sinner.This is stupid.If I live a semi-christian life but dont believe in god,I am cast to hell.
How is not believing in god a sin?
Not believing in God is a violation of the first commandment, i.e. it's a sin. Sorry, you may be a perfect human being otherwise but you have a subscription to hell if you don't start believing at some point before you die (think of it as a deadline).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 27, 2011 08:49 PM |
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This thread is excessively off-topic.
The question is what would have happened without religion.
Answer: we wouldn't exist. Reasoning: Do you know a people without a religion?
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Of course this has nothing to do with the question of whether religion may have, let's call it "debatable side effects".
Or that specific religions may have specific or worse side effects than others.
See it like certain kind of medical drugs: with the right dosage it saves lives; too much, and your skin blisters or you may even die.
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This again has nothing to do with the question of whether a religion may be true or not. If it could be shown whether a religion is true or not it wouldn't be called religion anymore.
Claims of when humans gained control about the use of fire range from about 200.000 BC to 1,7 mio BC.
No matter what is true here, fire and its control will have played a religious role for a long time, but with the de-mystification of fire it's not been a religious "issue" for a long time now.
Which means, as long as "true" and false" is used in any meaningful sense, it can't be used on religion.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 28, 2011 12:52 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 00:54, 28 Mar 2011.
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See it like certain kind of medical drugs: with the right dosage it saves lives; too much, and your skin blisters or you may even die.
You can't have too much Christianity, and Christianity is not like a drug.  Any amount of ant-theism is bad for one and all. 
Christianity teaches one to love, do good to, and pray for everyone, even one's enemies. If everyone did that, the world would be a much better place to live in.
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This again has nothing to do with the question of whether a religion may be true or not. If it could be shown whether a religion is true or not it wouldn't be called religion anymore.
Sure it would. We know 2+2+4 yet we still call arithmetic arithmetic. Religion is not about mathematical ideas, but is about a person's beliefs about God, spirits, the afterlife, ect, and how man should behave towards the "supernatural" and his fellow man. Arithmetic deals with one category of ideas, religion with another.
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Which means, as long as "true" and false" is used in any meaningful sense, it can't be used on religion.
Nah, if something is true it is true even if it can't be proven or even if no one believes it. If something is false it is false even if everyone believes it.
Christianity is true.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 28, 2011 07:49 AM |
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Yes, thanks for illustrating my points.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 28, 2011 11:20 AM |
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You're welcome!
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 28, 2011 01:19 PM |
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Quote:
This thread is excessively off-topic.
The question is what would have happened without religion.
Answer: we wouldn't exist. Reasoning: Do you know a people without a religion?.
We wouldn't exist? I doubt that.
I am pretty sure, there have been human beings on this planet before religion was present, let's call them "Neandertaler". They learned how to interact with each other and how to have sex and raise population without any kind of religion.
To call something they couldn't explain as "upper being" or similar doesn't have anything to do with religion.
And as far as I know, buddism is not a kind of religion. So yes, I know poeple (and they are maaaany ) without religion.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 28, 2011 01:59 PM |
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That Buddhism is no religion is a very exclusive opinion and extremely debatable.
Neandertalers are extinct. For all we know, they might be because they didn't develop a religion.
That something HAS BEEN necessary to survive doesn't mean, however, that it will ALWAYS be necesary. Take for example body hair - fur.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 28, 2011 03:29 PM |
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I am pretty sure, there have been human beings on this planet before religion was present, let's call them "Neandertaler". They learned how to interact with each other and how to have sex and raise population without any kind of religion.
There's no grounds to make this statement. Given that they predated writing, we don't really know what they believed.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 28, 2011 05:37 PM |
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Given that they predated writing, we don't really know what they believed.
So this underlines my point of view: If we can't know WHAT they believed, we also can't know IF they believed at all. Therefore, the statement "Without religion we wouldn't exist" is completely non grounded.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 28, 2011 07:13 PM |
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If you believe in evolution it IS grounded, since the humans we know have ALL developed a religion. Happenstance?
If it WAS happenstance you'd think that there should have been peoples without any religion.
However, with every known people that has left "prints" worshipping gods or having kind of an idea of a "cosmic order", an idea of the place of humans within it, you might get the idea that "civilization" and religion somehow go hand in hand.
From the Bible we know that in ancient times a war between two peoples also was a war of their respective gods, kind of a contest of which one was stronger and therefore "truer". It might just be that peoples - even if there were any without any religion, would grasp for one, seeing other peoples with a religion being "successful". Even peoples like the Vikings or the Huns had a religion.
So it's rather safe to say that we wouldn't exist without a religion or the development of religion would have been "natural" or "unavoidable" at some point.
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This thread is pages long: 
