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namad
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 01, 2011 07:31 AM |
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it used to be that a single black dragon or even a single cyclops could just wreck face if you got them out early enough....
now? a single champion creature can be taken down by a a few tier1 creatures... the whole 7tiers system really was a lot better than this new 3tier system...
i mean it is interesting that tier1-3 are all equal and tier 4-6 are all equal sure... well that's fine
but the problem then is that 1-3 and 4-6 are too similar... units need to be MORE DIFFERENTER!
factions need to be more different too! basically every faction gets a core healer, a core ranged unit, a core melee unit!
this sort of balancing is more like total annihilation than starcraft! (homm1-3 were definitely NOT LIKE THIS AT ALL)
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Crayfish
Known Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 09:07 AM |
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Quote:
this sort of balancing is more like total annihilation than starcraft! (homm1-3 were definitely NOT LIKE THIS AT ALL)
No but it should be! Tek 2 Krog ftw!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 09:32 AM |
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Quote:
basically every faction gets a core healer, a core ranged unit, a core melee unit!
Not every but yes, there are too many similarities.
Quote:
Inferno has some serious issues. It has :
- The worst of all core units : Hell Hounds/Cerberi or maybe should we call them Paper Dogs ? Big creature = easy target, low hitpoints, laughable damage. They are the H6's peasants.
- The worst Elites ... ALL of them. Breeders are weak, Tormentors are weak and damage their allies and Juggernauts are ... well ... weak too ? They don't have the stats to survive to their Taunting Presence ...
- Pit Lords on the other hand are quite strong, but they can't make up for 4 weak/useless units
- Inferno suffers from a HUGE lack of healing abilities (yes they have regeneration, but it's far from matching the Healing spell that every other faction has access to and no ... Life Drain is a joke, I tried it.
As far as I can tell its greatest problem is the low survivability of the creatures - especially the Cores - and the inadequate abilities. The Maniac has 1 ability, which is passive and it's... immunity to mind spells. Why the hell will an unupgraded basic creature need a mind immunity, how many enemies can use mind-based abilities against it so early? The Hell Hound and the Cerberus are indeed very low on HP and very easy to target + their growth is the lowest of all Inferno Cores. For some reason most of the neutrals prefer to attack them which makes the situation even worse. The Succubus is the only relatively reliable creature from the basic line-up, but - again - why exactly a shooter is given a damage-reflecting skill? It is supposed to stay out of reach and not be engaged in melee combat in the first place.
As for the Elites - the Breeder needs a MAJOR boost in stats and better abilities, it's so incredibly ineffective that I don't know what they were thinking when they designed it. The Tormentor's ability which is supposed to increase its damage output doesn't seem to be working (or if it is working, it does next to nothing), otherwise it's quite a mediocre creature. The Juggernaut has some stupid charge which it can't use most of the time because of its low Speed (the alternative is to charge through your own forces, like they are not dying fast enough already) and the Taunting Presence of the Ravager simply works against it without enough HP.
The Pit Fiend/Lord too feels underwhelming. I would expect it to deal higher individual damage. Haven't seen the effectiveness of Hateful Retaliation yet but Boundless Hate does laughable damage (15 for each Pit Lord I think, so two of them are needed to kill one weak upgraded Core - the fact that it attacks all enemies doesn't help much). And again, for some reason, the "unparalleled toughness" of Inferno's forces manifests itself in... low HP. Actually it seems to be the weakest Champion in terms of survivability. 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 10:51 AM |
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From what I've seen, inferno indeed doesn't offer good Elites (their ability suck and they are fragile). Compared to the ridiculously good Kenseis, at least.
I'm pretty sure it's the faction they worked on last, lol. See how polished Haven is (army works great together and complements each other well...) and compare it to random abilities of inferno. 
Lemme guess, they want to follow HoMM3 and inferno is meant to suck 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 11:04 AM |
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Quote:
From what I've seen, inferno indeed doesn't offer good Elites (their ability suck and they are fragile). Compared to the ridiculously good Kenseis, at least.
I'm pretty sure it's the faction they worked on last, lol. See how polished Haven is (army works great together and complements each other well...) and compare it to random abilities of inferno.
Lemme guess, they want to follow HoMM3 and inferno is meant to suck
Haven polished ? Sun riders die when you look at them and Griffins aren't much better (at least they got their unlimited retaliation). Only the Glories are shining (haha!) and are the strongest elite in game atm.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 11:09 AM |
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The elites are a mess, true. I rather meant that haven has a lot of "work-together" potential with defensive praetorian shielding others, damage dealing marksmen, healing/resurrecting sisters and (theoretically) varied in role elite creatures.
And now look on inferno... everything's DPS. And a weak DPS, too.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 11:13 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 11:13, 01 Jul 2011.
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Quote:
Lemme guess, they want to follow HoMM3 and inferno is meant to suck
Nah, the Heroes III Inferno was pretty powerful if you knew how to handle it (sure, it wasn't Castle or Necropolis but could deal with pretty much everything else - of course Conflux is not a faction). The Heroes VI one so far promises to be the weakest Inferno in the series.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 11:19 AM |
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I beg to differ. Inferno sucked in HoMM3. It was the weakest faction. I think the majority of players agree with this too. A good player could win with everything, but that doesn't change the fact that inferno's potential was low.
But yeah, H6 may offer even a weaker inferno.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 11:27 AM |
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Well, dunno, I could be biased because I play mostly with Inferno on Heroes III and have found plenty of uses for its creatures which most people ignore simply because they look weak at first sight - especially for the last 3. And the weakest faction? Hardly, even objectively.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 11:30 AM |
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Things that can't be ignored are high costs for an army of mostly slow walkers, also terribad creeping. Demon raising is valid, but extremely complicated and requires a lot of patience.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 11:39 AM |
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Granted, the creeping is harder than with the other factions, mainly because of the pathetic Imps, but as soon as you reach the Efreeti and especially the Devils it becomes piece a cake. Actually I'm yet to see another faction killing 100 Dendroids with a single level 7 creature.  (don't ask how long did it take though).
Anyway, this is a Heroes III discussion which has its forum. The Heroes VI Inferno is currently at the bottom of the food chain and this has to change. In general, the Cores need higher stats, the Elites - greater durability and better skills and the Champion... hm, everything.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted July 01, 2011 11:50 AM |
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What does creeping even mean
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 11:59 AM |
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Fighting against the neutrals for XP, resources, artifacts, etc.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted July 01, 2011 12:01 PM |
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Quote:
What does creeping even mean
Progressing quickly on a map in first few weeks.....
Comparing stats of base units Haven, Necro and Naga:
Sacred Kirin  Highest damage + Might Attack + Magic Defense + Speed + Luck
Seraph Highest Might defense + Hit Points
Archlich Highest Magic attack
Blazing Glory Highest Movement (can get all the way across)
Mizu-Kami Highest number of special attributes
Sacred Kirin just rocks!
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted July 01, 2011 12:12 PM |
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted July 01, 2011 12:14 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 12:15, 01 Jul 2011.
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Thanks for the answer, Zeno and DoubleD (EDIT: And Warmonger  )
So, based on all the feedback, I take it that Inferno is the weakest faction, but which one is the strongest?
Haven or Sanctuary?
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 01, 2011 12:23 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
basically every faction gets a core healer, a core ranged unit, a core melee unit!
Not every but yes, there are too many similarities.
Quote:
Inferno has some serious issues.
Hmm,the creators of Heroes had always had some issues with demons.I guess they are catholic fanatics.
H3 inferno sucked,I dont know about H4 but probably it sucked aswell,H5 inferno sucked and now H6 inferno sucks.
Do we modders always have to remedy imbalances inside every game?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted July 01, 2011 12:26 PM |
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Sucked from a gameplay perspective perhaps, but man did that town screen rock! Deity of Fire FTW
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 01, 2011 12:49 PM |
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Quote:
Sucked from a gameplay perspective perhaps, but man did that town screen rock! Deity of Fire FTW
I agree on that one.Epic town screen.
Though,even the grail was sucky for inferno,week of imps every week?
Conflux grail granted every spell,castle granted +2 morale for evey hero.Jeez.
Quote:
Thanks for the answer, Zeno and DoubleD (EDIT: And Warmonger )
So, based on all the feedback, I take it that Inferno is the weakest faction, but which one is the strongest?
Haven or Sanctuary?
Remember H3 conflux? Remember H5 fortress?H5 stronghold is an expection,but thats because those orks have to do something with demons.
And now H6 sanctuary.
See,it must be sanctuary.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted July 01, 2011 01:01 PM |
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Figures, sanctuary is kind of a spiritual successor to the conflux.
I haven't played fortress because my copy of HoMM5 somehow disappeared.
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This thread is pages long: 
