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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 01:33 PM |
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Quote:
So, based on all the feedback, I take it that Inferno is the weakest faction, but which one is the strongest?
Haven or Sanctuary?
Stronghold by a wide margin. they have the strongest cores (especially the maulers and the goblins), 2 of the strongest elites (centaurs and reavers - jaguars/panthers are quite decent as well, but frail) and the strongest champion (Cyclops up shooter FTW !). They also have the most insane racial skill !
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 01:37 PM |
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yup, orcs are pretty wicked with their lvl1 racial pushing all their units before yours in combat, but they have massive issues creeping. Sanctuary and Haven are 1st for me, I think - Haven is noobfriendly while being decent, Sanctuary has a lot of "top" units (Kensei, Kirin) while having an easy, but somewhat overpowered racial, although the nerf on pearl priestesses hurt them a bit (but was necessary anyway). Necropolis fails to impress me so far. Inferno just sucks.
My personal favorite is haven, well, followed very closely by sanctuary.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Kitten
Known Hero
Roar
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posted July 01, 2011 01:41 PM |
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What's wrong with Ravager? It seems pretty strong, stats wise.
HP 100
Dmg 18-21
Atk 19
P.Def 17
M.Def 13
Ini 55
move 6
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 01:45 PM |
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Quote:
What's wrong with Ravager? It seems pretty strong, stats wise.
HP 100
Dmg 18-21
Atk 19
P.Def 17
M.Def 13
Ini 55
move 6
It has no special abilities worth mentioning and it's not as tough as it looks - especially given that it forces the enemy creatures to attack it.
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Kitten
Known Hero
Roar
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posted July 01, 2011 01:51 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
What's wrong with Ravager? It seems pretty strong, stats wise.
HP 100
Dmg 18-21
Atk 19
P.Def 17
M.Def 13
Ini 55
move 6
It has no special abilities worth mentioning and it's not as tough as it looks - especially given that it forces the enemy creatures to attack it.
Oh all right  The taunt ability was more useful for the Warmonger in HoMM5 as it was bulky 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 04:43 PM |
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Just killed 15 jaguar warriors with 20 kappas (upgraded) and 20 pearl maidens. And a level 5 hero.
No loses.
Ridiculous.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted July 01, 2011 04:55 PM |
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Granted, the creeping is harder than with the other factions, mainly because of the pathetic Imps, but as soon as you reach the Efreeti and especially the Devils it becomes piece a cake. Actually I'm yet to see another faction killing 100 Dendroids with a single level 7 creature. (don't ask how long did it take though)..
Right, Conflux does it with a single Level 1. 
Quote:
Just killed 15 jaguar warriors with 20 kappas (upgraded) and 20 pearl maidens. And a level 5 hero.
No loses.
Ridiculous.
Just too much HP.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 05:15 PM |
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Quote:
Right, Conflux does it with a single Level 1.
It can't, the Sprites don't have enough speed and will be hit at some point. This many Dendroids will be split into 7 stacks.
Besides, you'll be long dead before you manage to kill them all, even if possible.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 05:20 PM |
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Well, in general, that's not a "inferno is strong" argument, it's rather "a fast unit may kill infinite amounts of slow creatures = AI is DUMB" argument, and you pretty much have one in every castle.
back to HoMM6...
Quote:
Just too much HP.
what do you mean?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Mitzah
Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
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posted July 01, 2011 08:52 PM |
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Fun facts about creatures' speed:
- No unit in the game has the speed 3 or less;
- Cyclops is faster than Radiant Glory, Imperial Griffin or Seraph;
- Sacred Kirin is as fast as a Hunter Goblin;
- Sentinels are faster than Vampires;
- Crossbowmen are as fast as hellhounds;
- Centaur Marauders are as fast as Blazing Glories;
- Succubi are faster than Vampire Lords;
And to top it all, the devs made the battlefield no larger than the H5 one (although they stated otherwise). Now, because almost every unit has a speed of at least 5 (most of them undead), it feels even smaller.
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| The HoMM Channel |
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 08:54 PM |
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Quote:
Well, in general, that's not a "inferno is strong" argument, it's rather "a fast unit may kill infinite amounts of slow creatures = AI is DUMB" argument, and you pretty much have one in every castle.
It also has to have a "no retaliation" ability, otherwise it's a corpse against large numbers. Inferno is not strong because of this by the way, it just happens to have pretty nasty level 7.
Anyway, about Heroes VI. Up there I mentioned that Boundless Hate of the Pit Lord deal 15 damage per Pit Lord, but I have to correct myself. It deals 15 damage MINUS the Magic Defense of the target. Plus the Fire Resistance of Inferno's troop currently doesn't seem to work, they get no reduction from fire-based attacks.
And did I mention how badly the Breeder sucks?
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TheSwampCelt
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 02, 2011 09:39 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I've been playing like a beast, loving the beta so far, and have been thinking about this a little.
What are y'all thoughts on the end game? In my opinion, it works out beautifully. I had 5 towns as Sanct, my brother about three as Necro, and (with amazing creature pools among towns) had an amazing end-game fight. I had 500 kappas, about 70 Kenshei. Now, elite units are more built around old tier 5 units, I believe, and I think this is important to keep in mind. Core is based around tier 3. So there isn't a huge gap, and when you have 3-4 Kenshei, yeah, they don't do much. But you can get 17 Dreamwalkers week 2 as stronghold. And yeah, they do some damage. But back to the fight! 70 Kenshei destroy any core, quite well. Thanks to the health buff, and the general ranged nerf (something else to keep in mind when your breeders don't seem to be doing much)battles are truly epic, and continue on for quite some team. Even though I had a 25% troop advantage, our battle lasted many, many turns, without feeling tedious.
When my Kenshei managed to get a triple strike on my brother's Lamasu's though, through morale and his ability, I knew I had it. But I digress: I like how the tiers interact now. Core is very strong, yes, and maybe a slight dmg boost to elite and champions would help, but really, if you're capturing towns (which with town conversion is so much freaking fun and intuitive (plus dwellings!)) you're going to have 70 Kenshei, and if they did anymore dmg they'd be OP. 30 Kirin also destroy. Gone are the days of 3-4 tier 7 units wrecking everything, yes, but maybe that's for the best. I've played Heroes since 1, and my nostalgia is strong for the old design, but having given 6 a chance, the superb design has totally won me over. Range no longer OBLITERATES everything in 1 turn, micro matters, and yes, if you get a considerable number of bases, you really feel like an emperor when you're raking in 15000 gold a turn and recruiting from five towns from one consistent pool. By the way, town portals rock so much.
TL;DR: It's really good the way it is, just give it a try, see what you think of late-game before judging.
Problem is not that Elites are not good, they are. Problem is they are not necessary. You can perfectly well manage pretty much any neutral stack with an army consisting of only cores - and then what's the point with building Elites anyway? It simply doesn't seem worth the cost to build Elites and Champions because you don't need them, and that kills the game.
And as others said, Kenshei have a pretty imbalanced ability anyway (4 attacks, also on retaliation - wtf!?).
True, but if your enemy is getting all his elites in week 2 (perfectly possible on normal resources, did it on stronghold even, then cyclops week 3 I believe) and you're sticking to just core, you're toast. They're not the insane powerhouses they were in H3, nothing is. Units can take a whomping. Kenshei are really strong true, bad example, and some elites do need a dmg boost, such as the Breeder and Panther Warrior, but some have suggested 50% more dmg for champions? It'd destroy the new type of balance. And why do Kirins get so much hate... I only played a two month game, maybe, and they are amazing when you get more than 10 (ended with 36) and upgrade 'em.
Happy playing.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 02, 2011 09:50 PM |
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I had 11 sacred kirins and it wasn't spectacular.
80 pearl priestesses did more damage (with half range...).
Once I got few of them, they could barely kill 2-3 marksmen per turn. When 6 upgraded champions kill few cores per turn, something is totally wrong, don't you think?
and no, someone getting all elites when you got cores doesn't change much because you probably upgraded the core dwellings instead of going for elites while he got himself dry on the overpriced elite dwellings and now you have upgraded cores + army and he has full unupgraded dwellings and no cash. Meaning you're the one with advantage.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 02, 2011 10:24 PM |
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Quote:
It'd destroy the new type of balance.
What balance?
Quote:
and some elites do need a dmg boost, such as the Breeder and Panther Warrior
The Breeder does not need any damage boost, it needs to be almost completely redesigned. Yesterday I attacked 22 of them with 38-39 Goblins, 15 Maulers, 25-26 Furies and 5 Panther Warriors and lost 3 Maulers and 1 Fury. That's a shooter. Elite one. ELITE SHOOTER DAMN IT!!! And even if it's the worst Elite in the game, the rest aren't substantially better. Only a few are actually really worth taking.
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ThunderTitan
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 03, 2011 01:26 PM |
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Seems to me that the biggest problem is the High HP combined with the high growth rate you can get...
Best idea would be to lower both slowly until Core units are more balanced...
But if i was to choose one i'd pick the growth rate...
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted July 03, 2011 01:28 PM |
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Quote:
Seems to me that the biggest problem is the High HP combined with the high growth rate you can get...
Best idea would be to lower both slowly until Core units are more balanced...
But if i was to choose one i'd pick the growth rate...
but isn't the growth rate adjustable? I am sure it asks you before you start the map if you want it slow, medium or fast
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Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!
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namad
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 03, 2011 01:47 PM |
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one thing about elites and champions is that they are certainly visually and thematically impressive! so much so I want to use them even though I know they suck.... it's a shame their tactical value can't match their panache.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 03, 2011 01:49 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Seems to me that the biggest problem is the High HP combined with the high growth rate you can get...
Best idea would be to lower both slowly until Core units are more balanced...
But if i was to choose one i'd pick the growth rate...
but isn't the growth rate adjustable? I am sure it asks you before you start the map if you want it slow, medium or fast
That's the growth rate of the neutral stacks
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Mitzah
Promising
Supreme Hero
of the Horadrim
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posted July 03, 2011 01:52 PM |
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Quote:
but isn't the growth rate adjustable? I am sure it asks you before you start the map if you want it slow, medium or fast
No. That's how fast heroes gain experience.
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| The HoMM Channel |
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted July 03, 2011 04:07 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
but isn't the growth rate adjustable? I am sure it asks you before you start the map if you want it slow, medium or fast
No. That's how fast heroes gain experience.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Seems to me that the biggest problem is the High HP combined with the high growth rate you can get...
Best idea would be to lower both slowly until Core units are more balanced...
But if i was to choose one i'd pick the growth rate...
but isn't the growth rate adjustable? I am sure it asks you before you start the map if you want it slow, medium or fast
That's the growth rate of the neutral stacks
Haha it is funny that you are both absolute and still not both can be correct
Anyway, how fast heroes gain experience is a totally different option! no one would ever confuse the two. Being though the growth rate of neutrals c o u l d be a solution but i insist that it is our creatures! anyone that is 100% sure and has some proof?
EDIT: it IS the neutrals growth. thanks
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Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!
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