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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 06, 2013 07:13 PM |
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Is it fair to treat Islam the way the west does when there are "Simmilar" lines in the bible,torah aswell?
I'm pretty sure it's not about lines in Quran, but the whole immigration of a new religion. In Europe there are many Muslims who want to build mosques in centres of the biggest cities. It's legal, because we have the freedom of belief, yet controversial - because we have the freedom of belief. 
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 06, 2013 07:19 PM |
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The real problem with the mosques in Europe is that they ask the state to finance entirely, read with natives taxes. So when some law is limiting religions external signs, as burka in France, the whole community loudly yells the state has no business inside because is private and a freedom expression. Then when they want to spread their bullsnow around by building minarets in every street corner, the state suddenly must finance. Look at chinese immigration, there are whole streets in France with only chinese labels/markets yet no one is disturbed, they do it with entirely their labor and keep respectful. But when it comes with muslims, there is ALWAYS trouble, wonder why.
As about Elodin, he condemns the burka law, but on the other side he created a thread to express his disagree about a mosque in New York center. It is obvious to me that everything concerning others is objectionable and trigger to argue, but when it comes to his little heaven then don't touch.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 06, 2013 07:33 PM |
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Me says: the rule of 20 posts would be beneficial here.
Well, I just had to answer immediately cause someone from Texas was trying to teach someone from Istanbul when Islam came into existence!
But I guess I must thank Elodin, because of him I am about to evolve into a man with nerves of steel. No amount of BS will piss me off soon.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 06, 2013 07:37 PM |
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted April 06, 2013 07:39 PM |
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<<Is it fair to treat Islam the way the west does when there are "Simmilar" lines in the bible,torah aswell?
Afaik, there are lines of how to treat your slaves, murder people working on sundays and so on in the bible.
In that respect, none of the abrahamic religions have an actual morality argument.>>
Define fair.
Those laws in the Bible were only for ancient Israel. Why are they like this, well, it was a different setting than today, and Israel always strayed away from their God an worshipped others many times. About slavery, people could become bondservants and choose whether to serve a master for life or not.
Quote from The Bible on that: “If the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life”
The New Testament says: love your enemies and do to others what you would have them do to you. And this is what Christians should do.
As for going to hell, I don't think hell is literally a huge torture chamber. Sometimes it is described as a place with great fires, other times as darkness, it can't be both lighted by fire and in total darkness, etc. And I am sure God knows how to punish Hitler and how to punish a normal unbelieving person who didn't commit genocide.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 06, 2013 08:06 PM |
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Quote:
how to punish a normal unbelieving person
You see, that as a moral imperative is about to go extinct. Just give it a few centuries.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted April 06, 2013 08:08 PM |
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I think of punishment not as torture but corrective punishment, at least in this life. God surely does not punish anyone for nothing.
Maybe in 1800 an atheist said that in 200 years there will be no more Christianity and here we are. Sorry to disappoint 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 06, 2013 08:27 PM |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 06, 2013 08:34 PM |
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Muhammad just copied heavily from Judaism and Christianity.
And remember We divided the sea for you and saved you and drowned Pharaoh's people within your very sight.
Wa-ith faraqna bikumu albahrafaanjaynakum waaghraqna ala firAAawnawaantum tanthuroona
And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses, and in his absence ye took the calf (for worship), and ye did grievous wrong.
Wa-ith waAAadna moosaarbaAAeena laylatan thumma ittakhathtumu alAAijla minbaAAdihi waantum thalimoona
Even then We did forgive you; there was a chance for you to be grateful.
Thumma AAafawna AAankum min baAAdi thalikalaAAallakum tashkuroona
And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.
Wa-ith atayna moosaalkitaba waalfurqana laAAallakum tahtadoona
And remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf: So turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves (the wrong-doers); that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness): For He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
Wa-ith qala moosaliqawmihi ya qawmi innakum thalamtumanfusakum biittikhathikumu alAAijla fatooboo ilabari-ikum faoqtuloo anfusakum thalikumkhayrun lakum AAinda bari-ikum fataba AAalaykuminnahu huwa alttawwabu alrraheemu
And remember ye said: "O Moses! We shall never believe in thee until we see Allah manifestly," but ye were dazed with thunder and lighting even as ye looked on.
Wa-ith qultum ya moosalan nu/mina laka hatta nara Allahajahratan faakhathatkumu alssaAAiqatu waantumtanthuroona
Then We raised you up after your death: Ye had the chance to be grateful.
Thumma baAAathnakum min baAAdimawtikum laAAallakum tashkuroona
And We gave you the shade of clouds and sent down to you Manna and quails, saying: "Eat of the good things We have provided for you:" (But they rebelled); to us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.
Wathallalna AAalaykumualghamama waanzalna AAalaykumu almanna waalssalwakuloo min tayyibati ma razaqnakum wamathalamoona walakin kanooanfusahum yathlimoona
And remember We said: "Enter this town, and eat of the plenty therein as ye wish; but enter the gate with humility, in posture and in words, and We shall forgive you your faults and increase (the portion of) those who do good."
Wa-ith qulna odkhuloo hathihialqaryata fakuloo minha haythu shi/tum raghadan waodkhulooalbaba sujjadan waqooloo hittatun naghfirlakum khatayakum wasanazeedu almuhsineena
We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses: be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee): and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel.
Walaqad atayna moosaalkitaba fala takun fee miryatin min liqa-ihiwajaAAalnahu hudan libanee isra-eela
And We appointed, from among them, leaders, giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs.
WajaAAalna minhum a-immatan yahdoonabi-amrina lamma sabaroo wakanoo bi-ayatinayooqinoona
By the Book that makes things clear,-
Waalkitabi almubeeni
We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
Inna jaAAalnahu qur-ananAAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havilah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gihon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiddekel
Moses_mountain_Saudi_Arabia
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 06, 2013 09:18 PM |
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Edited by artu at 23:01, 06 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
Look at chinese immigration, there are whole streets in France with only chinese labels/markets yet no one is disturbed, they do it with entirely their labor and keep respectful. But when it comes with muslims, there is ALWAYS trouble, wonder why.
I am not a very big fan of the guy, but he has interesting observations: In his book The Clash of Civilizations, Huntington says that while Indian and Chinese cultures just consider themselves different from the West, Islam and West claims superiority to each other.
However, it has been years since I've read it and I'm not sure, it may also be "while Japanese and Indian cultures claim only difference, Islam and China claims superiority" In that case, it does not fit so don't take my word for it. The book has its problems anyway, too many generalizations and imaginary unities as well as diversities. All Orthodox Christianity is considered as a cultural unity for example, but I'd say a Greek person has a lot more in common with a Catholic Italian than an Orthodox Russian culturally.
Edit: On second thought, it may also be about the history of France as an occupying force in North Africa. So Muslim immigrants from places like Algeria may have a mentality like "you colonized us in the past for decades so now you owe us." Just a guess.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 07, 2013 12:25 AM |
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Nah, punishment is not important to me.
Oh boy. That one will be costly when god will judge you. It's such an obvious lie when you look at your stance concerning death penalty, hell and all these nice punishment things you never stop to advocate.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 07, 2013 12:51 AM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 01:00, 07 Apr 2013.
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Quote:
Quote:
Nah, punishment is not important to me.
Oh boy. That one will be costly when god will judge you. It's such an obvious lie when you look at your stance concerning death penalty, hell and all these nice punishment things you never stop to advocate.
Seriously, reading the stuff back what Elodin wrote is disturbing. At first I thought people can be fanatical but at least reasonable to some extent.
But when somebody comes around and says "Nah, God will eleminate your memories of your loved ones and you will live eternally with that guy..." That god is a mind dictator.
Really? I mean seriously? I cannot fathom how one can be content with such thoughts. No, this blows away all my "Conclusions" on the things I had with these people.
I mean, look at this snow:
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Whatever sorrows we had about foolish decisions other made will be forgotten and left behind with the old life
Regardless, the Bible clearly states God will wipe away all of the tears of his people and there will be no more sorrows for them in their new life in complete fellowship of God, knowing him as clearly and as thoroughly as he knows us. Perfect fellowship, "face to face" in perfect harmony with our Creator/Father/Brother/Friend forever.
Lets add this to make it perfect:
Altman be Praised
You know, this sounds like somebody from Dead Space talking about the "Unitology" or some other fictional game.
Quote:
Unitologists Christians adamantly believe that the human race was created by the intelligent design of a divine alien agency being, and will be reunified after death in Heaven through the power of a sacred artifact known as the Marker the return of the Prophet.
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 07, 2013 01:09 AM |
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Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! - Romans 11:33
"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, - John 5:22
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 07, 2013 06:33 AM |
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Edited by artu at 13:52, 07 Apr 2013.
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Elodin,I am seriously starting to doubt your cognitive skills. I talk about Islam being a sequel to Judaism and Christianity.
Somebody says:
Islam was in no way a sequel, it was a supposedly new religion meant to have its own supporters and places of worship. Hardly a sequel.
I object with my obvious reasons and ask what are his to think otherwise, he replies:
Islam intentionally took elements from Judaism and Christianity hundreds of years after those religions came to be.
I object:
First of all the time length between Judaism and Christianity is more than the time length between Christianity and Islam. Islam is 7th century, Moses is considered to live somewhere between 16th and 13th century B.C.
Your answer to this is:
Ludicrous. The Christian church was born on the day of Pentecost about 40 days after the resurrection of Christ. Christianity is essentially Judaism under the New Covenant. Mohammed was born over 500 years after the death of Christ.
Now, if Islam HAD BEEN established in the 6th century instead of 7th, that would have only made MY point stronger. And how on Earth do you think the rest is contradictory to what I said? Let me explain this to you like explaining to a 5 year-old, by drawing it. See the red line, it is longer than the green one:
Then the argument continues and the person I objected to says:
Yes, but some of those men, in my opinion, were inspired by God. Muhammad wasn't.
I reply:
Dude, that's your personal faith, I don't care about that. We are talking about the historical categorization of them.
You pick out the "Dude, that's your personal faith, I don't care about that" part and reply:
And it is your personal faith that God did not inspire the New Testament writers.
Now, how is my disbelief in anyway relevant to the existence of a category called Abrahamic religions? Do you even know what a context is?
The rest of your non-sense has been replied to before anyway, so I won't waste my time repeating the same answers to a wall of ignorance.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted April 07, 2013 04:24 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 16:29, 07 Apr 2013.
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So what does this matter here? Elodin derrailing the thread into another Atheists are inherently evil?
Really? I've seen several atheists preaching hatred and bigotry but not asking any religious questsions. The thread title is not "Vent your hatred for Religion" by the way.
When anti-theists start throwing around moronic accusations at Christianity I like to point them to the oh-so-many skeletons crammed in their family closet.
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Is Islam a copy of christianity? Yes it is. Just as much Christianity is a copy of Judanusm. Its the same god, similar books, different Celebrtiy prophet.
You have an opinion and dont like to discuss facts? Well, then dont.
Islam is very different from both Judaism and Christianity. Calling Islam a copy of Christainity shows just how very little you know the religions. But atheist evangelists in general are quite ignorant of the God and of the religions they rail against.
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A new question about religion:
Is it fair to treat Islam the way the west does when there are "Simmilar" lines in the bible,torah aswell?
Afaik, there are lines of how to treat your slaves, murder people working on sundays and so on in the bible.
In that respect, none of the abrahamic religions have an actual morality argument.
Of course the New Testament contains no instruction for any believer to punish anyone for any sin so anyone who says Christians are instructed to do so is a liar. I'd advise not listening to them.
The nation of Israel had civil laws recorded in the Old Covenant and punished sinners within the borders of Israel for breaking the civil laws of the nation. While Israel was allowed to have slaves they had to treat them in a more fair manner than the surrounding nations and the "slaves" were more like indentured servants.
Of course officially atheist nations in modern times have engaged in slavery as well as being the undisputed "kings of mass murder."
Christianity is not a physical nation and has no civil laws. The New Testament called upon Christians to serve Christ first of all and live sacrificially to try to win as many to Christ as they could. If a person found himself to be a slave he was to always to hist best and not serve the "master" in a begrudging manner, knowing his ture master is God. A Christian who found himself to be a slave owner was to remember that his Master is God and that God is watching his treatment of the slaves.
Christianity is in fact the prime force for the virtual end of slavery in the world.
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As for fundamentalists. I would describe someone around here as fundamentalist that also loves gun.
In any case, if that someone was a muslim, he would be considered a terroist or a fundamentalist in the mainstream media.
If you are referring to me you are an absolute, complete, and total liar, bigot, and hatemonger for saying I'd ever be a terrorist. Unfortunately several atheists come here only to preach their own brand of fundamentalist Dawkinite hate and bigotry.
@JJ
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Nah, punishment is not important to me.
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Oh boy. That one will be costly when god will judge you. It's such an obvious lie when you look at your stance concerning death penalty, hell and all these nice punishment things you never stop to advocate.
Kindly stop your lies about me. I don't desire God's judgment on people and God has no desire to judge them either.
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You know, this sounds like somebody from Dead Space talking about the "Unitology" or some other fictional game.
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Unitologists Christians adamantly believe that the human race was created by the intelligent design of a divine alien agency being, and will be reunified after death in Heaven through the power of a sacred artifact known as the Marker the return of the Prophet.
More people believe in Christ than believe in the idiotic idea of an eternal universe or existence creating itself out of a steady state of absolute nothing. Atheism's irrational "creation myths" means it will forever remain a tiny cult since few people will believe such moronic explanations.
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Elodin,I am seriously starting to doubt your cognitive skills. I talk about Islam being a sequel to Judaism and Christianity.
I've not been impressed with yours, certainly.
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Now, how is my disbelief in anyway relevant to the existence of a category called Abrahamic religions? Do you even know what a context is?
The rest of your non-sense has been replied to before anyway, so I won't waste my time repeating the same answers to a wall of ignorance.
You actively preach that God does not exist. You have faith that he does not exist because you have no evidence that he does not exist. Your own posts seem to be fairly ignorant, especially when you attempt to discuss anything related to morality, religion, history, or science.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted April 07, 2013 04:34 PM |
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted April 07, 2013 04:35 PM |
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Also, why are only the Abrahamic religions being bashed here and not Ancient Greek, Celtic, Zoroastrianism, Native American Shamanism, Hinduism or Shinto?
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 07, 2013 04:44 PM |
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Drakon,my wild guess is that noone here is interested in any other religion than the two-Islam and Christianity.
As if the title of the thread was "Questions about Christianity and Islam".
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 07, 2013 04:58 PM |
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Edited by artu at 18:00, 07 Apr 2013.
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So vague generalizations, except of course, the logical fallacy of defining not having faith as a faith itself again, is your idea of an answer. Good. Maybe your flock should come up with an original vocabulary sometime, cause as of now all you guys do is reverse what you're being called and invent (if that can be called inventing) funny oxymorons like evangelist atheist, materialistic dogma, science fanatic and speaking of oxymorons, here's another:
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Atheism's irrational "creation myths" means it will forever remain a tiny cult since few people will believe such moronic explanations.
Here is a comparative chart of U.S. from 2006, in rest of the developed countries, the numbers are much much higher:
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Islam is very different from both Judaism and Christianity.
And Judaism is very different from Christianity (in fact Judaism and Islam has more common stuff compared to Christianity like not eating Pork, women not showing hair, circumcision) and Christianity is heresy according to Jews. That does not change the fact they are the members of the same club.
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Your own posts seem to be fairly ignorant, especially when you attempt to discuss anything related to morality, religion, history, or science.
Even if that was true I'd be considered a professor compared to you. You've been corrected on even simple factual stuff so many times by so many people I've lost count. You are in no state to call ANYBODY ignorant.
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why are only the Abrahamic religions being bashed here and not Ancient Greek, Celtic, Zoroastrianism, Native American Shamanism, Hinduism or Shinto?
Because they are, in general, treated as what they are: Myths. At least by the population here.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted April 07, 2013 05:01 PM |
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Hinduism, Shinto and Buddhism are certainly not conisdered myths in Asia. And I may not agree with eveything but I agree there are truthful things about them.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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This thread is pages long: 
