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Elodin
Promising
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Free Thinker
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posted May 12, 2013 10:37 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 22:37, 12 May 2013.
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@Elodin
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Any atheist parent who says they don't teach their kid atheism is pretty unobservant. Kids learn by words and by deeds. Atheist parents train their child in atheism as much or more than a religious parent trains his child in religion.
A parent will teach his child what he believes to be the truth and the later the child will go his own way.
I have to agree with angelito - this is very wrong and you are just overgeneralizing.
My comment was in response to this:
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Then it would make sense to talk about free will but as of know it's just a cultural conditioning and in Schopenhauer's words again: Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.
Certain atheists like to throw crap around constantly about religious people "brainwashing" or in this case "animal training" their kids. Statements like "religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training" are complete crap.
All children learn not only by the words of their parents but by the deeds of their parents. Children of atheists are no different.
Parents who are religious will generally do things like pray with their children, pray in front of their children, talk about God, relate stories from their holy book, go to church/synagogue, go to fellowship functions the church has, participate in various church ministries. Ect. These parents are showing their children that God plays an important part of their lives and that we should serve others.
Children of atheists will notice these things not being a part of the lives of their parents. The atheist parent by not participating in such things is saying, "God is not real" even if he never says those words to his child.
Ive been watching you
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No doubt, many parent just tell their children what to believe, and I don't think atheists have monopoly on this position.
That is not what I said. I said atheists also teach their children their beliefs and values by their words and deeds. Intentionally or unintentionally.
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Revelation
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted May 12, 2013 10:46 PM |
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I said atheists also teach their children their beliefs and values by their words and deeds. Intentionally or unintentionally.
From my experience they usually are not radical and talk with their children about religion in their very early age. You know, "You can choose your faith" and such.
Of course there are some exceptions, but remember that religion is often associated with culture, while atheism isn't, so it's more probable for Christians to teach their beliefs than for atheists to teach their "disbeliefs". Whatever that means.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted May 12, 2013 10:50 PM |
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<< The important thing is to never hurt people with your beliefs, and never hate someone because they believe something different. She has not asked me yet what *I* believe. When she does, I will be honest, but I will again stress the importance of her forming her own beliefs, and not just believing in what I believe in simply because I'm her parent.>>
Corribus, I'd shake your hand if I could. If only everyone acted that way...
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 13, 2013 12:35 AM |
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Certain atheists like to throw crap around constantly about religious people "brainwashing" or in this case "animal training" their kids. Statements like "religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training" are complete crap.
Well, Schopenhauer is not for every one. Yet I don't understand how you are okay with missionaries traveling to even the most remote places around the world teaching and preaching that if you are not a Christian your soul is doomed but when someone says that's crap and they write a book about it they become hatemongers. You don't like Schopenhauer, I can give you your good ol' Mark Twain:
To trust the God of the Bible is to trust an irascible, vindictive, fierce and ever fickle and changeful master.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 13, 2013 03:24 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 03:27, 13 May 2013.
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Certain atheists like to throw crap around constantly about religious people "brainwashing" or in this case "animal training" their kids. Statements like "religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training" are complete crap.
Well, Schopenhauer is not for every one.
Yeah, his philosophy appears to be no better than the KKK's philosophy.
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Yet I don't understand how you are okay with missionaries traveling to even the most remote places around the world teaching and preaching that if you are not a Christian your soul is doomed but when someone says that's crap and they write a book about it they become hatemongers. You don't like Schopenhauer, I can give you your good ol' Mark Twain:
Missionaries often make great personal sacrifice to share the love of God with people who have not heard the gospel message. They preach the gospel out of love. Atheist evangelists preach their "gospel" out of hate.
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To trust the God of the Bible is to trust an irascible, vindictive, fierce and ever fickle and changeful master.
Dawkites have such unbridled hatred. But then studies associate atheism with anger at God and poor relationships with their father.
Anti-theism will always remain a small denomination within the cult of atheism. But who to any nation when an anti-theist rises to political power.
God is a kind, loving, merciful, longsuffering God. I'm sorry some people chose to be too blind to see him.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted May 13, 2013 03:36 AM |
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My bad, I haven't chose being blind. Something in my brain keeps telling me that God murdering his own son as a free gift for me isn't really a good concept. Sorry if that disturbs you, but I can't really change it.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 13, 2013 03:40 AM |
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Edited by artu at 03:47, 13 May 2013.
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So Schopenhauer is KKK, Mark Twain who died in 1910 is a Dawkinite, "studies" show atheism is an Oedipal complex though most scientists including Freud himself is an atheist, and evangelicalism which is basically a Protestant Christian movement has an atheist sect. Planet Elodin seems to look a place full of wonders each and every day.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
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Duke of the Glade
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posted May 13, 2013 03:54 AM |
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cult of atheism
I'm part of a cult now? I have to perform specific, agreed upon ceremonies that generally involve me prostrating myself and or my possessions to a "Holy" or "Godly" individual?
Oh bullocks. I have some back payments to catch up on...
Oh by the way. There is a god of atheism... Athei. The less you believe in her, the more powerful she becomes.  [/joke]
Also Elodin, Twain dies years before Dawkins was even born, so... I have no idea how he could be a Dawkenite. Maybe he had access to a private time machine that he took to his grave? *Shrug*
And these "Atheist evangelists" you speak of... I've seen them on college campuses with cardboard signs and the internet. Aaaaaaand that's it. They have not enough care to fund an expedition into a country such as Africa to spread the grand old gospel of Atheism According to Elodin. A rather bleak text, if I must say so.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted May 13, 2013 07:26 AM |
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I think you guys make the confusion to assume that because he knows the bible so well, he opened other books. After the kkk comment, it shows not.
Now is my turn to say how sad I think it is when theists are blind to human spirituality then believe they only detain the copyright. However, the way to discover it is shorter for them than for us, just a walk to library.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted May 13, 2013 07:34 AM |
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You can spiritual but not religious.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 13, 2013 07:47 AM |
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I think you guys make the confusion to assume that because he knows the bible so well, he opened other books.
Of course he hasn't, philosophy and pretty much everything which does not include "God" at least 5 times per paragraph is banned in Texas. Thou art suggesting that Elodin may be reading some commie liberal loony texts against the law of the land? 
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted May 13, 2013 08:24 AM |
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I've read Plato, Kant, Hegel, John Locke and Descartes.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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markkur
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Once upon a time
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posted May 13, 2013 01:41 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 20:03, 13 May 2013.
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That's very good I studied till I was...well, I wasn't really blue in the face. I read 100s of books and articles covering many topics, but near the end I zoomed on the lives of those who went before us; Luther, Calvin, the Wesley brothers, Sheldon, Spurgeon, Bunyan, Erasmus, and C.S.Lewis's hero George McDonald to name some; however <imo> the 2 best for a return to the Spirit of the Gospel were on Mother Teresa and St. Francis.
The reason for me saying the last is; after many years of working with doctrine and debating with other Christians of all different denominations (I believe in One church) and then explaining things all the time to friends and family; I got very tired of talk and text.
I'm not knocking scholarship, I strongly believe in it and have a zeal for History and know that all subjects need dedicated teachers but what I discovered for myself was that I would take one Mother Teresa to 1000 "thinkers". <imo> The need is great in the world and as long as the bulk of Christianity keeps telling the world what it means to be a Christian instead of showing what it means to follow Christ, well (in general), things will stay a bit sour inside and out with too many churches.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
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posted May 13, 2013 02:12 PM |
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I read the Bible of course and some Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, John Wesley, Hosea Ballou, even some young earth books, just to be informed what they believe. And early church fathers' writings.
I was especially influenced by Hosea Ballou:
"It is well known, and will be acknowledged by every candid person, that the human heart is capable of becoming soft, or hard; kind, or unkind; merciful or unmerciful, by education and habit. On this principle we contend, that the infernal torments, which false religion has placed in the future world, and which ministers have, with an overflowing zeal, so constantly held up to the people, and urged with all their learning and eloquence, have tended so to harden the hearts of the professors of this religion, that they have exercised, toward their fellow creatures, a spirit of enmity, which but too well corresponds with the relentless cruelty of their doctrine, and the wrath which they have imagined to exist in our heavenly Father. By having such an example constantly before their eyes, they have become so transformed into its image, that, whenever they have had the power, they have actually executed a vengeance on men and women, which evinced that the cruelty of their doctrine had overcome the native kindness and compassion of the human heart."
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Elodin
Promising
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Free Thinker
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posted May 13, 2013 05:33 PM |
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@Zenofex
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I think you guys make the confusion to assume that because he knows the bible so well, he opened other books.
Of course he hasn't, philosophy and pretty much everything which does not include "God" at least 5 times per paragraph is banned in Texas. Thou art suggesting that Elodin may be reading some commie liberal loony texts against the law of the land?
Looks like you failed Psychic Readings 101. Or you are just making up crap about me. That is generally called lying.
Back many moons ago when I was a high school student I devoured every book in the library. I've always valued knowledge and never feared anyone's opinion. I want to know the truth, not to defend a predetermined and staked out belief.
I had actually been drawn into liberalism in my early high school years, mostly because of the "the man will keep you down no matter what you do" culture all around me. Though I never was drawn to the extreme left. But by the 11th grade I had rejected the liberal nonsense that had held sway over me as I matured and observed more of the world around me.
Later when I went to college my thirst for knowledge was not lessened. Of course some of the liberal professors were infuriated with me being able to rip their irrational positions to shreds but since I never humiliated them by doing so in front of the class AND I was always respectful, questioning their positions rather than launching personal attacks, they were mostly not discriminatory towards me.
The liberal arts classes were a fun diversion but most of my classes were more technical in nature.
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Zenofex
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 13, 2013 05:50 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:05, 13 May 2013.
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If you have ever read any non-evangelistic stuff apart from school textbooks, you are incredibly good at not showing it. Provided that you don't seem to know the meaning of even a commonly used word as "lie", I think I'll stick to my initial presumption that you are ignorant about anything besides the Bible (which you treat as a proof that God is a member of the Republicans' rightmost wing, i.e. not very well).
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 13, 2013 10:06 PM |
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@markkur:
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what I discovered for myself was that I would take one Mother Teresa to 1000 thinkers
What do you think about Mother Teresa identifying contraception as murder? Do you realize how devastating the results would be in some poor countries with overpopulation or where that puts some Christian families with special medical conditions, if they tried to follow that advice? (And I'm sure some had.) Do you think in this post-industrial world that has a devouring population growth, "be fruitful and multiply" is still good advice?
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markkur
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Once upon a time
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posted May 14, 2013 05:14 PM |
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I was endorsing that she lived on the streets of Calcutta and spent her life working with the sick and dying; versus sitting in a room and working on herself.
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bixie
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my common sense is tingling!
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posted May 14, 2013 09:11 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 22:20, 14 May 2013.
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Mod edit: One more trolling, spamming post from you bixie and I'll silence you for a week. If you have nothing constructive or intelligent to add, feel free to not post anything.
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markkur
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Once upon a time
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posted May 14, 2013 11:09 PM |
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Sorry Artu, I guess I didn't answer you about my thoughts on the issue you raised.(not a great day)Anyway, contraception already has a thread., but my honest answer is...I don't know; problems get too big for me, but at least I know enough to not impress that on anyone. 
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