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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 22, 2011 03:12 PM |
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Quote:
Anyway, it's true that Jeanne D'Arc is a semi-legendary figure. Not as extreme as Arthur or Dracula but still, some of the things they say about her could as well be tall tales. Besides as I am no Christian, I don't believe she ever had any visions...
Like I said, I don't think Jeanne was the one calling the shots in the campaign. The whole thing happened when she was a teenager and reality is, you can't win a battle against a trained army without having any experience of your own.
She might have been the beloved of the people, and many would gather under her banner but when it came to fighting, someone else made the plans.
Anyway, that's got nothing to do with it. Even in a fantasy game, there has to be some connection to reality. Or at least a well written story. In Anastasya's case especially, I don't see any of both.
Did I get anything wrong?
Sorry, I can't take you serious. Do you really think, reality in the real world is what you think it is or should be?
Worse, do you really think "reality" in a FANTASY world would have to be what you think it should be?
As a matter of fact, in real world reality EVERY nobleman could assume a position of command in an army - without traing OR experience.
For you it's not believable? Well, then don't believe it. For others MAGIC is not believable - would that make stories involving magic bad?
I don't think so.
So get over it. For a frigging strategy game the story isn't bad at all, considering there are strict demands to fulfill.
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 22, 2011 05:23 PM |
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Quote:
Taking the stance of the sceptic, I must admit that what you call 'credible' to me sounds 'clichéed', and what you call 'refreshing' sounds to me like it could be written for a 13-year old.
I played my fair share of games and many of those where story-centered. And while nor Anton (mentally flawed youth with a shining knight complex) nor Anastasya (innocent girl who falls victim to an abusive teacher) are particularily innovative, I've never got to play as such characters. And again, even if not innovative, they're still more mature and better conceived than a breathing plot twist like Zehir or Findan, and those two are way better than most of the remaining cast.
But most importantly, credible characters don't have to be innovative or even likeable. They have to be undestandable. I can't explain to anyone why Isabel act like she does, neither can my girlfriend, whose jaw literally dropped when playing the first HoMM V campaign. I can understand and explain what drives Anton, Anastasya, Kiril and Sandor and I just don't know Irina yet. I call that progress.
Quote:
That's so far as I've gone. Did I get anything wrong? I think not...
I think you do. And you still seem to think that verbally insulting the characters over and over will make your opinion more sound.
I am willing to give you a point: the characters are thrown in some extremely hostile and difficult situations and they just omitted to tell us how they coped with those.
But is that really new to the HoMM series? Gauldoth's campaign, one of the best in the series, has him starting as essentially a horribly scarred wandering homeless feeding on bugs and sleeping on the soil who had some basics of necromancy in his childhood. In the end of the first scenario, he has taken down two barbaric fortresses and conquered an elven city who was guarded by plenty dragon-mages and other powerful creatures, has amassed a diverse army and commands powerful heretic magic. Then Gauldoth rescues Kalibarr who is little more than an essicated unliving corpse, and the story skips decades, coming to when Gauldoth is building Necrorrum in honor to his master and placing him as the ruler, without saying how their reconciliation was or what they spoke about in all that time (time in which Gauldoth couldn't read that his master changed and no longer cared about him).
The story assumes that:
A) his master thaught he off-screen what he needs to know (and if Kalibarr did, why Sveltana can't?);
B) he made is experience in war throught tactics in the same time period where you, the player, are gaining experience, thus the story doesn't need to describe it;
C) it doesn't need to narrate everything because it wants to get to the action quickly.
If HoMM IV does that is god's gift to storytelling, if HoMM VI does the same it's crappy writing? I fail to see why.
You also complain that Anastasya keeps her girlish personality. I'll just suppose it's your personal preference. Arantir didn't say anything to me that I didn't already know by the description of Heresh core values and culture. Anastasya, at least, feels like an individual with her own personality and motivations. And on the contrary of what you say, she DOES consider the fact that she's undead and thus she's now a monster in the eyes of her former family, and she openly states that.
It just seems to me that you're unreasonably angry at the writers. Once again, this game has its fair share of flaws compared to HoMM V TotE, I don't get why you are focusing on one of the few things that mark a definite progress over the previous chapter.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 22, 2011 06:44 PM |
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Why are we still comparing this to H5? What does H5 have to do with anything here?
Just because H5's story sucked bad, it doesn't mean we have to glorify this piece of crap.
Wether H5 was worse or not, it doesn't even matter. What matters is that H6 is not any good either.
Or is that you hate so much whatever is H5'ish, so everything else is automatically good for you just out of spite?
Wether Arantir and anyone else were any better than Anastasya or not, the fact is that she is a very poorly written character.
I'm not angry at the writers, I'm angry at you who are trying to convince me that I got my hands on the next best seller here.
The protagonists annoy me to no end (Kiril, Anastasya and Anton, the rest dislikeable though they are, annoying they're not) and the more you're gonna keep pushing about it, the more they're gonna annoy me.
So if you want me to stop bashing them, you better stop pushing me. Cause I'm always gonna respond until I get to have the last word on it. 
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 22, 2011 06:46 PM |
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Nightteror is that you?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 22, 2011 06:50 PM |
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I can make NightTerror look like a care bear if I wanna.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 22, 2011 06:56 PM |
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Quote:
Nightteror is that you?
Stop Steeling mi thoughts
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 22, 2011 06:59 PM |
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We are the faceless and dave jame is one of us 
Now seriously, this is getting out of hand. Nighty's discussions were already too much, let's not ever get there again.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 22, 2011 07:04 PM |
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Well, stop pushing me then and repeat after me: Isabel is better than Anton. Loud and clear, people!
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted November 22, 2011 07:19 PM |
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Jesus Christ, give me a break. You may well love or hate H6, but no character in the history of all fiction is worse than Isabel.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 22, 2011 07:19 PM |
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Do you really think your immature ranting makes your opinion more credible?
As far as opinions go, you are entitled to have yours - but everyone else is entitled to theirs as well. So YOU think this is bad crap, and so it IS for you.
But your general reasoning sucks, which leaves personal taste, which is something you can't and shouldn't argue.
Bottom line: you don't like it.
What about Star Wars? Like Star Wars?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 22, 2011 07:21 PM |
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I like Jar Jar Binx (or whatever his name is)
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 22, 2011 07:25 PM |
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Quote:
Well, stop pushing me then and repeat after me: Isabel is better than Anton. Loud and clear, people!
Not that I would think that the protagonists are oscar adepts but the background story is one of the best in games I have seen. But to undesrtand it, you will have to hold on and finish the 5 main Campaignes and put together all the pieces of the puzzel. It is not hard, but it might by torturing to get them. But as soon as you understand what function each chess figer has I hope you will change your mind. It is not about the 5 children as much as about those peopel, who use them as figures in there games.
And about Isabel. I am curently writing down the story of heroes V for my forum members to understand the story and belive me, not evene Bella from T. is as pathetic as a character, that kills it allies, leavs her people as playthings for the undead just because she wants to be whith her beloved dead husband to end up in a romance whith his murderer.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 22, 2011 07:31 PM |
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Quote:
Do you really think your immature ranting makes your opinion more credible?
As far as opinions go, you are entitled to have yours - but everyone else is entitled to theirs as well. So YOU think this is bad crap, and so it IS for you.
But your general reasoning sucks, which leaves personal taste, which is something you can't and shouldn't argue.
Bottom line: you don't like it.
What about Star Wars? Like Star Wars?
Same to you.
Your reasoning sucks as well. Comparing Alexander to Anastasya is the most absurd and flawed argument I came across here.
And anyway, I was voicing my opinion until someone called on the rest of you, claiming that I'm not allowed to like H5's story over H6, and then I suddenly found myself on the defensive from every H5 hater.
Next time around I'm gonna come here wearing an Isabel t-shirt just to piss you further off! XD
snow Star Wars.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 22, 2011 07:33 PM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 22, 2011 07:35 PM |
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Next time I'm going on a deletion spree. Don't push me.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted November 22, 2011 07:40 PM |
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Quote:
Jesus Christ, give me a break. You may well love or hate H6, but no character in the history of all fiction is worse than Isabel.
Isabel is a good candidate, but no-one beats Jar Jar.
On topic, i think today's game focus too much on meta story and end up lacking in characterization.
I wouldn't mind semi cliche fable as long as characters in it end up being well characterized, believable and interesting. In short i wish more characters made a story instead of trying to fit into it.
But overall H6 campaign story was nice, albeit rather messy to play through. I wouldn't mind more story overlapping to fill in the holes (like that example of Irina's meeting with naga which is shown in 2 campaigns (and more examples), though I can understand not including some of those for spoiler purposes.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 22, 2011 07:50 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think your immature ranting makes your opinion more credible?
As far as opinions go, you are entitled to have yours - but everyone else is entitled to theirs as well. So YOU think this is bad crap, and so it IS for you.
But your general reasoning sucks, which leaves personal taste, which is something you can't and shouldn't argue.
Bottom line: you don't like it.
What about Star Wars? Like Star Wars?
Same to you.
Your reasoning sucks as well. Comparing Alexander to Anastasya is the most absurd and flawed argument I came across here.
And anyway, I was voicing my opinion until someone called on the rest of you, claiming that I'm not allowed to like H5's story over H6, and then I suddenly found myself on the defensive from every H5 hater.
Next time around I'm gonna come here wearing an Isabel t-shirt just to piss you further off! XD
snow Star Wars.
No, I compare ANTON with Alex. Anastasya I compare with Jeanne D'Arc, and that's basically the end of your whole line of argumentation.
By the way, I don't think Isabel is so bad either. She's the typical horror story fool who does things you (and everyone else) know you shouldn't do, be it an attempt to fill a creature with life made out of corpse parts or going into a dark cellar, after hearing something and finding that the light bulb isn't working - except that when you were in the same situation things might not be so clear-cut anymore.
I also agree about Star Wars.
Now, what DOES find Mercy in your eyes?
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 22, 2011 07:52 PM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 19:57, 22 Nov 2011.
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Ah talking about Irina, yes, yes... There's one thing that I actually like about H6's story.
I like that part about Irina getting knocked up by... Gerhart's brutality.
I like how they keep repeating it "Gerhart's brutality" every time it's been mentioned.
I dunno, probably they thought they were being elegant but seriously, to me it's an instant classic.
Something like "I kick ass for the Lord" in Braindead or "...And that is how we know the Earth to banana-shaped!" from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
But oh well, I guess they did not mean for it to be funny... But that makes Gerhart the best character in the game. He's knocking up chicks with his brutality and stuff. Just how awesome is that?
@jollyjoker
We were talking about Anastasya how would I know you changed subject to Anton? Anyway, he doesn't compare with Alexander either.
What does find mercy in my eyes? Well, like I said above... Gerhart's brutality!
No, seriously? Out of the less fortunate stuff, I thought Game of Thrones had a good story.
____________
Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 22, 2011 07:56 PM |
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You really need to play all of the campaigns before you judge the story and say that it's like the worst thing you have been experienced.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 22, 2011 07:59 PM |
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It's not the story actually that gives me my bad hair day. It's the characters. The story may turn out to be nice in the end, but the characters are annoying and they ruin it.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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