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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted February 14, 2013 04:13 PM |
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I think the real "problem" is we heard more people who complain about the game that the people who like it beacause instead of complaining they play
It's rather logical since most of the people who have hated H6 after playing it have mostly deserted the boards. You can simply measure the "success" of H6 by looking at the extremely bad impact it had on the various Heroes communities.
And no, the "extremely bad" is not overexagerated. Look who's posting on this board, always the same 10 people and it's the same in many other major Heroes communities ... the french H6 communities are simply totally dead.
As I said in another topic, how successful was the game ? Have a look at the rankings. For most campaigns, about 50% of the players who started a campaign completed it, barely above 10.000 players bought the DLCs, there have been less than 7.000 multiplayer games in 1.5 years. And this has nothing to do with people posting here.
I checked last sunday's Conflux figures :
- 453.762 players have at least 37 experience points (that's the closest number to the total number of sales we can get)
- 371.713 players have tried Slava's campaign, only 309.894 finished the second map (which is required to start the campaigns). That means we already lost ~150.000 players there.
- 135.608 players started Anton's campaign, but only 75.217 reached the final map
- 79.360 players started Kiril's campaign, but only 53.8898 reached the final map
- 131.350 players started Irina's campaign, but only 60.539 reached the final map
- 201.102 players started Anastasia's's campaign, but only 123.906 reached the final map
- 84.566 players started Sandor's campaign, but only 45.300 reached the final map
- 13.503 players started Crag Hack's campaign, but only 11.619 reached the final map
- 10.451 players started Anton's campaign, but only 8.393 reached the final map
- 6.474 1v1 multi games have been done
- 1.683 duel 1v1 games have been done
- 135 siege duels have been done
- 402 legion duels have been done
There clearly IS a problem with the game that has nothing to do with external factors.
For me the rankings prove absolutely nothing, why?
Because in my case i have played only the Nature's (sylvan) campaign in heroes 4, with Elwin if i remmember...(approximatively 15-20h, i restart in the middle) and i spent more than 200 hours on the isolated scenarios and i never played a game online and i enjoy the game.
In H5 i never played any campaign and any online game but i think i played at least 250-300 hours with friends, you know is not necessary to play online to avoid to play IA just play with friends on the same computers and I enjoy the game.
In H6 the story is different because the campaign FOR ME are good but i know that i would not play online like the others heroes.
And i suppose there is lot of people, like me on Heroes 4 and 5 ,who simply don't play the campaign ore online game because they prefer to play isolated scenario against AI or friends.
To finish "the french H6 communities are simply totally dead."
i assume you refer to archangelcastle or maybe heroes.fr i think if this communities are dead is not beacause Heroes 6 is bad but because the community move towards Facebook, ubiforum or whatever...
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 14, 2013 04:44 PM |
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i think if this communities are dead is not beacause Heroes 6 is bad but because the community move towards Facebook, ubiforum or whatever...
No, because the community moved to other games.
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted February 14, 2013 05:04 PM |
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It is a dialogue of deaf person
Each has his(her) opinion and nobody want to listen to that of the others
But i'm ok with that... because i kwow that i am right
i wrote too much today,I am going to play the very bad Heroes 6!
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 14, 2013 05:17 PM |
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Each has his(her) opinion and nobody want to listen to that of the others
You don't fall into that category?
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zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 14, 2013 05:37 PM |
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It is a dialogue of deaf person
Each has his(her) opinion and nobody want to listen to that of the others
But i'm ok with that... because i kwow that i am right
i wrote too much today,I am going to play the very bad Heroes 6!
Enjoy it
P.S None of the players i played h5 with moved to h6. And it wasnt because of me bashing the game, i started bashing it later. And most of those guys were hardcore fans. Not sure where you see its success.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted February 14, 2013 10:23 PM |
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Mindless you say? Care to elaborate on your reasoning?
Because I'm pretty sure a lot of the negative nancies around here haven't touched the game in forever. As such I don't consider them to know what they're talking about. Not knowing what you're talking about qualifies as mindless to me. There's my reasoning.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2013 12:02 AM |
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Because I'm pretty sure a lot of the negative nancies around here haven't touched the game in forever. As such I don't consider them to know what they're talking about. Not knowing what you're talking about qualifies as mindless to me. There's my reasoning.
That is half true, but only half so. As one of the negative nancies around here, I'll say that when a game, that comes from a series that I have played and loved so much, leaves me so disgusted that I have lost any interest at all in playing it, that does say quite a lot about the (lack of) quality of that game.
I may not be completely familiar with the details on the latest version, but I have been following this forum closely enough to know that the likelyhood of H6 ever coming in a shape where I'd actually want to play it (which means a complete rework of the skill system) is very small.
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What will happen now?
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted February 15, 2013 01:08 AM |
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Maybe, but you won't actually know until you try it. 'til then, you're talking out of your hat. Or other people's hats. Which may or may not be informed, you actually have no idea about that. Either way, you don't know what you're talking about anymore. You base yourself off of other people, that (theoretically) know? Let them talk for themselves.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted February 15, 2013 06:31 AM |
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Maybe, but you won't actually know until you try it. 'til then, you're talking out of your hat. Or other people's hats. Which may or may not be informed, you actually have no idea about that. Either way, you don't know what you're talking about anymore. You base yourself off of other people, that (theoretically) know? Let them talk for themselves.
Oh, so anyone who considers H6 a failure hasn't played the game ? You're so adamant about judging people who, according to you, "don't know" when yourself know so little.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2013 08:51 AM |
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Maybe, but you won't actually know until you try it. 'til then, you're talking out of your hat.
I disagree. First of all, I don't belong to those who believe you have to try something before you can tell if it's for you or not. Second of all, I'm not even sure if that is relevant - if the game has design issues that makes me lose my will to play it even before I actually do, I'll rate that a failure on my account. And when that is said, I did actually play the demo a number of times, which is where I established my dislike for the skill system, and you can't dispute that I am qualified in saying that the basic mechanism of that has not changed.
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What will happen now?
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted February 15, 2013 09:34 AM |
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Nah, the demo doesnt do it justice. Heroes 6 is one of these games that grow on you A LOT. Truthfully, after it got released and I first played it I wasnt too impressed. About the skill system, it is a bit conrusing at first, but after you plauly with it for a bit its actually pretty good. Skills are diverse and quite balanced. I still find interesting synergies, earth magic and stronghold, fate weavers and teleport, vampiric embrace racial and life drain, kirins and heroic charge, value of mass slow, etc.
Mate its heaps better then the mess in H5.. Even with a skillwheel it was near impossible to find any suitable build, reach the skills you wanted and basically you heroes development was guided by the randomness of your magic guild. How could you make any sense of it withouth the skillwheel??
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted February 15, 2013 06:04 PM |
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Nah, the demo doesnt do it justice. Heroes 6 is one of these games that grow on you A LOT. Truthfully, after it got released and I first played it I wasnt too impressed. About the skill system, it is a bit conrusing at first, but after you plauly with it for a bit its actually pretty good. Skills are diverse and quite balanced. I still find interesting synergies, earth magic and stronghold, fate weavers and teleport, vampiric embrace racial and life drain, kirins and heroic charge, value of mass slow, etc.
Mate its heaps better then the mess in H5.. Even with a skillwheel it was near impossible to find any suitable build, reach the skills you wanted and basically you heroes development was guided by the randomness of your magic guild. How could you make any sense of it withouth the skillwheel??
I could'nt agree more at this post.
when i played Heroes 6 the first three hours spent on the game were rather inferior, it's as if the magic did not operate but after a few hours furthermore i found some charm to the game.
Then i finished the first campaign with Anastasya (Necro campaign) and now i enjoy the game like i enjoy H4 , H5 and a little H3 ( not play enough).
And for the skill system, come on guys! The major failure in H5 was the randomness of the skills (and the randomness at the beginning of the fight) and how much of you complained about it? A lot if i refer to the posts in H5 forum... and now you complained about the abscence of randomness?
How many times my build failed because i never had the skill for what i waited.. A necromancer level 23 perfectly built and when i level up to 24 choice: Leadership or Light! Woow so Good!
I never understood what is so bad about the fact to have a total control over what you want to choose! i prefer freedom to randomness definitively.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 15, 2013 06:10 PM |
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At this point. I would say
Because I always end up with the same build for the same faction. Just for the reason that at the start there are some key abilities, and later skills mean jack... you have your army, which is insanly large thanks to TC and TP mechanics.
Don't take me wrong I have hundreds of hours played, but I can see when something is wrong.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted February 15, 2013 06:30 PM |
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Thank you Dave for putting a good point against this "mindless" love train.
@flonembourg, Hermes: some of you seems to really like the absolutely lack of randomness.
You use as argument the example of Heroes V, where random had a damn big impact on the game. And you're right on criticizing that, it was simply too random.
However, that doesn't means that going to the completely direction is going to be good. And while it's true that, in it's way, it fix the problem of "oh no, I can't make the build I want" and such, it has it disadvantages. Unless it's a almost perfect skill system where you have to think when making a choice between several skills, so they are very balanced, it simply fails because you end going for the same optimal builds every time. And, judging what have been said at this forum, that's not the case.
In addition, the lack of randomness reduce heavily the replayability of the game.
That's why I think it's better to go to a point between both: like, for example, a skillwheel where you choose the skills as you want, but the perks are offered randomly (but with more than 2 perks to choose from, so it's not so easy to have all choices bad for you).
Besides, the combination of skills and spells was a bad idea.
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted February 15, 2013 06:59 PM |
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Quote:
At this point. I would say
Because I always end up with the same build for the same faction. Just for the reason that at the start there are some key abilities, and later skills mean jack.
But tell me if i'm wrong but is was also the case in H3 H4 and H5?
When you look for the most effective Build you are brought to reproduce it in every game because what you want it is to win.
And when you say you always end up with the same build for the same faction i assume it's because you played a lot and you tested many different build for one faction and after many tests you have considered that this build is the best among all that you tested.
So before you found your optimal build You have played the faction different way!
i think also when you played a game more than 100 hours is totally normal That the desire to play it decreases.
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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted February 15, 2013 07:21 PM |
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Thank you Dave for putting a good point against this "mindless" love train.
@flonembourg, Hermes: some of you seems to really like the absolutely lack of randomness.
You use as argument the example of Heroes V, where random had a damn big impact on the game. And you're right on criticizing that, it was simply too random.
However, that doesn't means that going to the completely direction is going to be good. And while it's true that, in it's way, it fix the problem of "oh no, I can't make the build I want" and such, it has it disadvantages. Unless it's a almost perfect skill system where you have to think when making a choice between several skills, so they are very balanced, it simply fails because you end going for the same optimal builds every time. And, judging what have been said at this forum, that's not the case.
In addition, the lack of randomness reduce heavily the replayability of the game.
That's why I think it's better to go to a point between both: like, for example, a skillwheel where you choose the skills as you want, but the perks are offered randomly (but with more than 2 perks to choose from, so it's not so easy to have all choices bad for you).
Besides, the combination of skills and spells was a bad idea.
I am anxious to specify that I did not say that the skill system was perfect but at the moment (i have played 20 hours) I find it better than that of H4 and H5 it is all.
And on this sentence "In addition, the lack of randomness reduce heavily the replayability of the game."
i'm totally agree with you BUT ( there is always a but you know) Nothing prevents you from NOT reproducing the same build in every game with such or such faction.
For me the problem is not so much the skill system but the search absolved from the perfect build which is necessarily going to lead to the tiredness.
and could you explain me why the combinations of skills and spells is a bad idea?
Because in H5 when i had blindness instead of Frenzy i was not very happy and when it was curse of the neverworld instead of puppet master i cried...
and about the mindless love train...It is just for counterbalancing the hatred poured by certain members towards the game
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 15, 2013 07:34 PM |
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But tell me if i'm wrong but is was also the case in H3 H4 and H5?
When you look for the most effective Build you are brought to reproduce it in every game because what you want it is to win.
And when you say you always end up with the same build for the same faction i assume it's because you played a lot and you tested many different build for one faction and after many tests you have considered that this build is the best among all that you tested.
So before you found your optimal build You have played the faction different way!
i think also when you played a game more than 100 hours is totally normal That the desire to play it decreases.
Actually it was not. In Heroes III Skills gave you advantages, but it they did not have such a huge impact, and thanks to the randomnes, you had more or less different builds at different times of the game. The spells you got depended on the random mage guilds which again motivated you to explore and trie out new things.
Again in Heroes V. The skill system had a larger impact with more interesting abilities and for each faction there were atleast a few interesting builds, that all could be usefull, so you would not be focused all one one build.
The most important fact is, that the randomness system gave you different skills at different time of the game. You got your first level and got different abilities, that made your game interesting since you had to set your strategy to this.
Now its just the same for me. Lv 1-3 Enlightment, logistic, Some kind of healinga and/Or damage spell.
Lv 5 Pressed attack, Lv 15 Havoc/time statis, Lv 20+ Pasives all the way. Each game the same.
Similary to random spells. You had few options, and you had to use them in the best way. Generally spells do not have such interesting functions. Arcane crystal from ToE will be my favorite spell in the series for a long time.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted February 15, 2013 07:58 PM |
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Y'know, you could just decide to try something new, instead of constantly doing the same thing and complaining about doing the same thing. That being said, it would probably be more fun if the skill trees were more faction specific. The skill strategies would feel a little more different from faction to faction from what they are now.
Quote:
Oh, so anyone who considers H6 a failure hasn't played the game ? You're so adamant about judging people who, according to you, "don't know" when yourself know so little.
Please. Don't be silly and read my posts properly. I said I suspect a good portion of the people complaining in this thread haven't played the game recently (after a lot of bug fixes and balancing attempts happened) and that those people (who haven't played the game recently) don't know what they're talking about anymore. I do not mention anyone specifically, precisely because I don't know who for certain. Those like that know who they are, the others are very much free to not feel concerned at all. Which btw, you're awfully insulted by this for no apparent reason.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 15, 2013 08:28 PM |
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The general "I know your kind" attitude could be insulting (slightly or not so slightly), imagine that. It's a fact - which can be seen in the above posts - that the people who praise Heroes VI assume/claim that those who openly don't like it have not played the game enough. That's called prejudice.
The bug fixes and the balance improvements can be pretty irrelevant by the way. My impression is that the majority of the people who no longer play the game are simply bored by its core mechanics and frustrated from Ubisoft's attitude towards their clients. Say what you will but that's something big in many people's books.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted February 15, 2013 08:57 PM |
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Yeah, the problem here is everyone who complained feels targeted by this. I'm not talking to everyone complaining, I'm talking to those who haven't played recently. I am wishing they would play the game they are criticizing before they criticize it. I know some haven't. Alci for example has made it plain for a long time now, didn't even need him to speak up to know he was like that. And I suspect more haven't too. I'm talking to those, without naming them because I don't necessarily know them. Demo or vanilla is just not the same anymore.
If you've played the game recently and are complaining, I haven't much to say to you. Tastes may diverge. I still like this game overall.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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